Michael Brown Shooting

[Mike!]

How about another diagram?

What I'm showing is the first head shot in blue. For whatever reason, I'm assuming Michael Brown has already started decending, when the first shot strikes at the eyebrow, the impact forces his head down more, rotating at the neck.
The second head shot, in red, is basically chasing the first shots path, but Michael has moved downward in the milliseconds between impacts, combined with the rotation caused by the first head impact. The green line represents possible redirection of second shot.
After the second shot, he collapses completely.
I've built in an angle, just to satisfy requests, but I think the same effect will result if it's more linier too.
I'm assuming the finial volley all followed pretty close to the same path and it was Michael Brown that moved somewhat downward, giving us the "line" of shots up the arm and ending at the head.
The question is, why was he bending, leaning, moving downward?
He could have been starting to "Bull-rush" and run towards Wilson, starting to get down on the ground, or just simply tripping up on his flip flops while turning around. Or yet, some other reason I can't imagine.
I'm just trying to make sense of what we do have available, I based this illustration on an interview I saw with Dr. Baden this evening.
Thoughts?

 

[Unabogie]

What're you basing this on?

He could've fallen due to shock from getting hit, losing his balance because of the shock of getting hit + indecisiveness about charging or not (might've been a split second shift from rushing the cop seeming like a viable strategy to seeming like a very bad idea once billets began to hit him)

I just don't see how anyone can state so confidently that someone might not pitch forward in a way that puts their head down for any number of reasons in a hectic situation like that.



Didn't want to go to jail or die, and perceived some moment of hesitation in Wilson he impulsively decided in a flash of a moment to try to exploit with an unexpected last ditch effort to do what he'd tried to before? Namely, overpower the cop and avoid consequences. If he had tried attacking and running and both had gone poorly, and both are illegal and foolish and dangerous... why doubt him doing one last illegal, foolish, doomed effort in that pause before the final volley? If Wilson had closed the gap to 6 or 7 feet as someone posted, that might tempt Brown to think he could get to Wilson before he could react with more shots.

May even have tried to fool Wilson in that 3 second gap with a fake surrender to get Wilson's guard down. And if so, now that would shed a lot of light on why witnesses thought they saw an honest surrender followed by execution. Wilson would've been uniquely positioned and trained to see the action which put a lie to any fake surrender.

So he looked as if he were surrendering, but it was all a devious ruse that only our intrepid hero detected!

Brilliant!

 

[Skeptic Tank]

So he looked as if he were surrendering, but it was all a devious ruse that only our intrepid hero detected!

Brilliant!

Is it actually that hard to imagine? Cop shouts "freeze!" after having just fired the initial volley, which mostly or entirely missed, though Brown may have had an arm wound or two already at this point, Brown turns to face Wilson, sees gun pointed at him and realizes he'd better comply so he puts his hands up, but he also sees that Wilson has gotten within less than 10 feet now, and he still doesn't want to go to jail for the robbery, let alone the assault on an officer he's now added to it... and he makes o e final, stupid, impulsive attempt to rush Wilson, hoping that having out his hands up has put Wilson's guard down just enough that he can tackle him before he fires.

Sure, I might take another hit or two, but I'm Big Mike, I'm 18, I'm 6'4" 292lbs, I'm bad, I'm invincible, and this cop is sooo close now, I know I can get to him before he can react. Worth a shot... because if I comply, il doing some serious prison time. I got this.

Impulsive, dangerous, stupid, illegal... but not that much more so than attacking the cop in the first place. And he had at least one judgment impairing substance in his system, not to mention good old fashioned teenage male self over-estimation and suicidal stupidity. Endless videos and cop testimonials can attest to criminals doing stupid, impulsive things nobody can imagine themselves doing.

And if you came out and only really started watching from a balcony after the first volley, you might see that his hands were up, but then he got shot. Omg execution! Would you notice him beginning a rush at the cop? Would you be as aware of it as the cop if you did? Would you remember it? Would your feelings about cops, race, Brown himself, etc. allow you to see the danger the officer had been in?

Wilson may even have THOUGHT this is what happened but simply mistaken a movement to kneel down or something as the start of a lunge toward him, and reacted in fear and over-caution.

If that's the truth, I chalk that up to felon occupational hazard, and don't think Wilson should be demonized for erring in the side of his own life over the life of his criminal attacker.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

The video wasn't leaked -- it was released by the FPD along with other information in response to various sunshine requests.

So they claimed but

Justice Department Reportedly Asked Ferguson Cops Not To Release Alleged Robbery Video Of Slain Teen

Despite holding off Thursday, Ferguson police still decided to release the tape Friday over the Justice Department's objections, according to CNN.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Leaking and releasing are not synonyms. I was under the impression that the video was released at a press conference. It was done in an incredibly stupid and insensitive way but was it leaked or was it just released?

If partial information about the toxicology report was leaked that was a bad thing and it supports your view that there might be selective leaking going on. Do you have another example?

Released over the objections of federal investigators then. The marijuana was result was leaked.

Some people here are objecting to a lot of red herrings in this thread. The gist of the released video along with the pot information looked very suspiciously like character assassination of Brown regardless if it was "leaked" or released.

People can think it was just business as usual, but given they were asked not to release it by the feds suggests it was not necessary to have done so.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Perhaps. Or perhaps he's really glad he wasn't.

My thought was if he'd had the camera, maybe he wouldn't have killed Brown. The reason a lot of police abuse reports go down after cameras are implemented is because the cops act better when they know they are accountable.

The mentality changes.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

So I have a seen a few nods of agreement with my scenario, but no one has pointed out why it is unworkable....

It's been pointed out, you seem to have ignored it.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

...
Thoughts?

You seem to be purposefully avoiding the most obvious angle, Brown's head is down, Wilson shoots from higher than Brown and the shot goes into Brown's head at the apex with the trajectory toward the face.

Why is that?

 

[pakeha]

Because the Ferguson police would have most certainly leaked that already to the press.

That's an opinion and I was hoping for facts.
Are juvenile records sealed?

[ . . . ]They leaked the store video (the county police voiced anger the Ferguson police did that) and the confidential medical report of pot in Brown's system.

The video wasn't leaked -- it was released by the FPD along with other information in response to various sunshine requests.

Thanks, Cylinder.

I'm back to my question: how do we know Brown had no criminal record?


I'm trying to make sense of this entire incident. It appears the convenience store robbery was reported and information sent out by the police dispatcher before Wilson came upon Johnson and Brown, if CNN's timeline is to be trusted.

At the store. 11:51 a.m. Saturday August 9

Someone at Ferguson Market and Liquor, a convenience store at 9101 W. Florissant Avenue, places a 911 call.

The next minute a dispatcher gives a description of a suspect over radio. A different officer arrives at the store where the alleged strong-arm robbery occurred.

The dispatcher relays information from a witness that the suspect is walking toward the QuikTrip at 9420 W. Florissant Ave.

http://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2014/08/us/ferguson-brown-timeline/

 

[Skeptic Tank]

The gist of the released video along with the pot information looked very suspiciously like character assassination of Brown

How can true things about Brown coming to light be considered character assassination?

Especially if they're directly relevant to determining whether Officer Wilson's version of events is at all believable - and the robbery, assault, and intoxication are all directly relevant to that determination.

Character assassination would be releasing his browser history of porn and piracy sites and having an ex-girlfriend on CNN saying Mr. Brown was a selfish and inattentive romantic partner.

 

[Aepervius]

How often do people bull rush from 10+ meter away with head down ? All bull rush I have done myself or even saw , you put your head down at the last moment. Which make sense, how do you run forward more than 5 neter head down and keep running straight square on your target really.

ETA: I have tried in the street, maybe it is only me but I cannot run very very quick straight while head down. I do stumble if I try to go very quick and I think I'll hold off trying more before braining myself agaisnt a parked car.

 

[a_unique_person]

How can true things about Brown coming to light be considered character assassination?

When information is released selectively, it can give a distorted view of the event.

 

[pakeha]

How often do people bull rush from 10+ meter away with head down ? All bull rush I have done myself or even saw , you put your head down at the last moment. Which make sense, how do you run forward more than 5 neter head down and keep running straight square on your target really.

ETA: I have tried in the street, maybe it is only me but I cannot run very very quick straight while head down. I do stumble if I try to go very quick and I think I'll hold off trying more before braining myself agaisnt a parked car.

Good point, Aepervius.
Is it possible Brown lowered his head to look at his wounds?

 

[Skeptic Tank]

When information is released selectively, it can give a distorted view of the event.

True, but this situation was being distorted in Brown's favor and that was sparking riots and looting and rage, and damaging already strained relations between cops and the community plus putting Wilson's life in grave danger.

I think a good argument can be made for calculated information release to pop that dangerous, hot air filled balloon - even if the initial reaction is greater rage, over time it undermines the basis of it.

And any skeptic worth his salt should love seeing a false saint exposed as a very flawed, very human sham and all the naive followers get egg on their faces very publicly.

 

[Aepervius]

Good point, Aepervius.
Is it possible Brown lowered his head to look at his wounds?

Would make far more sense to me than bullrushing a cop from so far away , while the cop has *already* fired at him and hit him.

 

[Aepervius]

True, but this situation was being distorted in Brown's favor and that was sparking riots and looting and rage, and damaging already strained relations between cops and the community plus putting Wilson's life in grave danger.

I think a good argument can be made for calculated information release to pop that dangerous, hot air filled balloon - even if the initial reaction is greater rage, over time it undermines the basis of it.

And any skeptic worth his salt should love seeing a false saint exposed as a very flawed, very human sham and all the naive followers get egg on their faces very publicly.

Again, justice and police is not there to corect public bias, they are there to respect laws, and the police deciding to ignore the justice department recommendation as published, does not make it look good for the police.

Look, from what I was told by a friend which was indirectly involved in the riot due to some kid gettting a bullet in the brain back in France, you try to calm down people, you are not here to try to justify your action of those of the police to the riotting persons. That's for the guys watching over the police do after gathering all evidence.

 

[pakeha]

Good point, Aepervius.
Is it possible Brown lowered his head to look at his wounds?

Would make far more sense to me than bullrushing a cop from so far away , while the cop has *already* fired at him and hit him.

It was just a thought.

There are things in this case that make no sense, IMO.
Johnson abandoning his best friend, the friend running down the middle of the road to escape gunfire and several other little things niggle at me.

I expect that over time, information will reach us about what really happened that morning.

 

[Skeptic Tank]

Again, justice and police is not there to corect public bias, they are there to respect laws, and the police deciding to ignore the justice department recommendation as published, does not make it look good for the police.

Look, from what I was told by a friend which was indirectly involved in the riot due to some kid gettting a bullet in the brain back in France, you try to calm down people, you are not here to try to justify your action of those of the police to the riotting persons. That's for the guys watching over the police do after gathering all evidence.

Any reason you can think of to not view it as DOJ asking local officials to violate law (FOIA) because Holder valued racial politics and loyalties over the truth, the law, and transparency? That's how I'm inclined to view it.

I believe Obama claimed this would be the most transparent administration ever, but I guess that takes a back seat when Holder wants to maintain a narrative which paints a black person in a better light.

As for the right way to respond to rioters and looters? In my view, that would be with more bullets. But even if you don't agree with that, why should an angry, irrational, racially motivated, fact-starved mob of criminals supporting a criminal be worthy of any consideration about their feelings? Their feelings can't be controlled through any predictable or reliable means, but exposing them for the fools they are may get the more well intentioned members of the public who sympathize or go out and peacefully protest, to pull their support and isolate them.

The last thing I'd do is violate the law to coddle their precious feelings.

 

[Aepervius]

Any reason you can think of to not view it as DOJ asking local officials to violate law (FOIA) because Holder valued racial politics and loyalties over the truth, the law, and transparency? That's how I'm inclined to view it.

AGAIN, the video of the robbery had nothing to do with the shooting. Thery tacked it on, and a FOIA would not have dredged up the video so directly. It was immediately put forth as a justification of the shooting "see this thug he did not earn to die" (and after watching the video this did not earn the death penalty IMHO).

As for the right way to respond to rioters and looters? In my view, that would be with more bullets.

OOKKKKAY...... I think the conversation is over. 1 last thing before i leave you to your "sterling" rambling.

But even if you don't agree with that, why should an angry, irrational, racially motivated, fact-starved mob of criminals supporting a criminal be worthy of any consideration about their feelings? Their feelings can't be controlled through any predictable or reliable means, but exposing them for the fools they are may get the more well intentioned members of the public who sympathize or go out and peacefully protest, to pull their support and isolate them.

The last thing I'd do is violate the law to coddle their precious feelings.

You seem to imply that because he might have been a criminal that justify any shooting no matter whether wilson knew about the detail or not or no matter how the event happened that day tells quite a lot more about you , than it does about the situation.

Fact is, they could simply have released from the start a statement from wilson telling "he attacked me punched me and refused to surrender I had to act as he seemed to be a violent criminal on its way to make more crime" or something similar would have been better than what seems to be character assassination by releasing a video that the office could not have seen as if it justified the killing.

No. What I put in quote and seem to be the official version now, is enough for any FOIA to justify firing at brown. The video on the other hand was not for that time.

As for "precious feeling" I hope you are not and will never be in law enforcement. Because obviously you have not the slightiest clue on how to handle a crowd, riot, and what you would do would almost certainly expand the violence. ETA: the term you are apparently sorely missing from your vocabulary is : de-escalation. look it up.

 

[Skeptic Tank]

AGAIN, the video of the robbery had nothing to do with the shooting. Thery tacked it on, and a FOIA would not have dredged up the video so directly. It was immediately put forth as a justification of the shooting "see this thug he did not earn to die" (and after watching the video this did not earn the death penalty IMHO).

The video had plenty to do with explaining why Brown might have attacked Wilson (fear he was about to get arrested for the robbery and assault he'd just committed) and illustrating his willingness to break the law and use violence to evade the consequences of his criminality.

I'm unaware of anyone saying he was, or deserved to be killed by Wilson for the robbery.

OOKKKKAY...... I think the conversation is over. 1 last thing before i leave you to your "sterling" rambling.

You'd be surprised how many people think shooting looters is a good way to handle them.

You seem to imply that because he might have been a criminal that justify any shooting no matter whether wilson knew about the detail or not or no matter how the event happened that day tells quite a lot more about you , than it does about the situation.

I'm unaware of anyone saying he was, or deserved to be killed by Wilson for the robbery.

Fact is, they could simply have released from the start a statement from wilson telling "he attacked me punched me and refused to surrender I had to act as he seemed to be a violent criminal on its way to make more crime" or something similar would have been better than what seems to be character assassination by releasing a video that the office could not have seen as if it justified the killing.

There are strict rules about releasing evidence in an ongoing investigation. I wish people would quit using that fact to imply a cover up.

I'm unaware of anyone saying he was, or deserved to be killed by Wilson for the robbery.

No. What I put in quote and seem to be the official version now, is enough for any FOIA to justify firing at brown. The video on the other hand was not for that time.

I'm unaware of anyone saying he was, or deserved to be killed by Wilson for the robbery.

As for "precious feeling" I hope you are not and will never be in law enforcement. Because obviously you have not the slightiest clue on how to handle a crowd, riot, and what you would do would almost certainly expand the violence. ETA: the term you are apparently sorely missing from your vocabulary is : de-escalation. look it up.

I think there's a lot of people who want to provoke cops into doing something they can make a name for themselves with a cell phone video of. Lot of people these days seeking such interaction with cops so they can be the martyr and get attention.

If people didn't think that had any traction, they'd do a lot less of it.