God right by virtue of being the creator ?

[Giordano]

Again you display a lack of insight—you have only looked at a portion of what is recorded, not taking into account the whole scenario.

I knew a great guy once. Very friendly and funny. Only killed three people. Of course god killed many more, so I should ignore this slight flaw of my acquaintance and I should take into account the whole scenario?

 

[Paul Bethke]

As to the first part: is this fantasy or did you mis-state your view?
As to the second part: so you do promote slavery and genocide or are you a false prophet?

My view is that all people are truthful---that is a simple solution to many of the problems in the world today.

I never said I promote slavery—what is stated is slaves in the time of Israel were to be treated as stated in the law—not as slaves were treated by other people.

 

[Giordano]

My view is that all people are truthful---that is a simple solution to many of the problems in the world today.

I never said I promote slavery—what is stated is slaves in the time of Israel were to be treated as stated in the law—not as slaves were treated by other people.

Really? All people are truthful? In practice? Good luck there.
So when god stated that daughters should be put to death for premarital sex, he meant only at that time in history, not now? Where is this qualifier? Does this same limitation apply to other statements by god in the bible Seems kind of harsh even for then.

 

[I Ratant]

That is the situation that exists at the moment—but I know from the Scripture that Yahweh will have to reveal himself as the only God and Creator in order to persuade the world, this is emphasised throughout Scripture.

.
And you are smart enough to see the trap he lays for you, like the trap he set up for Adam and Eve?
How you gonna know what the motive might be, behind that apple?
The dude has wiped out all his own creations, the legend goes. Speaking of which, have you read Gilgamesh? That is the source of the legend of the Flood, which has no existence in history other than the legends.

 

[Slowvehicle]

Again you display a lack of insight—you have only looked at a portion of what is recorded, not taking into account the whole scenario.

The "taking it out of context" gambit. how droll.

You do not know my joourney, or my historym, well, enough to claim that I have "looked at only a portion"--it was my extensive study of the xian canon that led, inevitably, to my realization that I do not, in fact, believe in 'god', in a 'god', in your 'god', nor yet in any 'gods'.

To an enlightened person, any excuse to dash babies' brains on stones; any "reason" to murder a person for working on your holy day; any "instruction" to murder one's own child, is monstrous. It does not matter whether the monster of the xian old testament was, most of the time, too busy walking little old ladies across the street and holding bake sales to raise money for homeless puppies to instruct its people how thoroughly they should murder other tribes to be able to take possession of their land; if it existed, by its own actions it would have proved itself a monster and worthy of its own condign wrath.

And, of course, that overlooks the whole "sending people to hell for eternity because it could not convince them to believe in it" racket...

By its own standards, your 'god' is inherently evil, whether it exists or not.

 

[HansMustermann]

My view is that all people are truthful---that is a simple solution to many of the problems in the world today.

I hope you realize that that would also make Odin, Zeus, Amaterasu, and Baron Samedi real. After all, if all people are truthful, those can't be lies either.

I never said I promote slavery—what is stated is slaves in the time of Israel were to be treated as stated in the law—not as slaves were treated by other people.

Bullcrap. And I'm sick and tired of that lie already.

Deuteronomy 20:10-11:

10. When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace.

11. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you.​

Do you get it? It doesn't just lay rules for how to treat slaves (short version: badly). It commands them to take slaves.

And here's what happens if they refuse to become slaves:

12. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city.

13. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it.

14. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies.​

So, yeah, a bit of genocide and more taking people as plunder.

Ah, but maybe these are the Canaanites that angered the Lord? NOPE. THAT is for the distant cities that are not part of the promised land.

15. This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.​

And we know that because that's contrasted with the following, when it comes to the actual Canaanite cities:

16. However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes.

17. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the Lord your God has commanded you.​

So, yeah, for those it's complete genocide.

So I wish people cut it out with lying for God on that topic. The text clearly promotes slavery and genocide, and in fact COMMANDS both.

 

[MontagK505]

You are correct in that Christianity is flawed in so many areas, because people have disregarded the simple fundamental truths—once we get back to basics there will be a consensus. Three hundred thousand different denominations does lead to confusion—especially where morality is concerned.

Truth is so simple—just be truthful—the Scripture are a true account of what is relayed—science may be looking for a way to verify or disprove what is written.

The only way to verify what is recorded is to repeat what is recorded—so some of the events recorded must be repeated in this day and age!

This is analogous to a computer program that runs poorly. The flaw is usually in the code. (Sometimes its the hardware) The vast majority of the worlds religious ideologies have the same problem. Bad code, and history would suggest that no amount of study of the code will correct this.

 

[I Ratant]

I do not believe that the world has progresses from what existed 2000 years ago—you do not keep track of what is going on in the world today, and of what has taken place in the last 200 years.
...

.
Go find pasteurized milk in 0 AD.
Vaccinations for anything.
Air conditioning.
Rapid transit.
Electronic communications.
The lot of humanity is far superior to the hunter-gatherer societies of those time.
And a large percentage of the creature comforts we enjoy and that have doubled our expected life time were accomplished without the aid of any religious assistance at all.

 

[I Am The Scum]

I do not believe that the world has progresses from what existed 2000 years ago

... said the man on the internet.

 

[Aridas]

.
Go find pasteurized milk in 0 AD.
Vaccinations for anything.
Air conditioning.
Rapid transit.
Electronic communications.
The lot of humanity is far superior to the hunter-gatherer societies of those time.
And a large percentage of the creature comforts we enjoy and that have doubled our expected life time were accomplished without the aid of any religious assistance at all.

On a different front, hard as it may be for Paul Bethke to believe, the trend for wars, violence, rape, and most other crimes has been that they're decreasing, last I saw.

 

[I Ratant]

Where secular law is predominant.
The Stone Age countries... still do those crimes with their god's approval.. so they say.

 

[HansMustermann]

On a different front, hard as it may be for Paul Bethke to believe, the trend for wars, violence, rape, and most other crimes has been that they're decreasing, last I saw.

Bingo. That's what gets my goat about lemmings who, I'm left with the impression, essentially think that THEIR problems are the only ones that matter, and the farther in time and space you get, the better things were. Or at least it can't possibly be any worse.

Because that seems to me like invariably the problem, when you get to talk to one. Their little annoyances and insecurities trump everything from tribal endemic warfare to the Black Death, so the world is going downhill, and oh God, the apocalypse must be coming any day soon because God wouldn't let things get even more horrible. Derp.

 

[punshhh]

On a different front, hard as it may be for Paul Bethke to believe, the trend for wars, violence, rape, and most other crimes has been that they're decreasing, last I saw.

Per capita perhaps and then only during the brief peaceable period towards the end of the last century. Its right back up there now and I expect it to get a lot worse over the next few decades.

 

[Belz...]

Well as I said—all we know about God the God of Israel is what man has written, so can we know for sure if this is a true account—my response is that that I am sure that what is written is a true account of what this God wants us to know about him.

Firstly his laws are not complicated—firstly he wants all people to be truthful—that is that no one lies to another, that is not difficult, because most injustices’ result from a lie.
So it is reasonable to conclude that Yahweh the God who is the Creator should destroy those who lie as the Scriptures record! ►Psalms 5:6 You destroy those who tell lies; bloodthirsty and deceitful men the LORD abhors.

And again

Revelation 21:8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars —their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulphur. This is the second death.”

Do not steal. Do not commit adultery. Do not covet. If all people followed these simple principals the world would be a much better place for all!
Then of course—do not murder.

It is the neglect of these simple laws that all the problems in the world are present.
So why should God not enforce these laws?

So from the Scriptures it is understood that a time will come when Yahweh will enforce these laws when his Kingdom comes!

Stop preaching. We know that the bible is written by ignorant primitive men. Nothing you wrote has anything to do with the topic of the thread.

 

[Belz...]

Aaahh so.

I have a bad feeling about this.

The answer to the OP is that it is a historical legacy of the christo-Judaic religions. Plato refers to God as the good, the archetypal Good I presume.

Yeah, that's what I thought. You just type for typing's sake.

You do realise that for this to occur computers, or AI, would need to be sentient do you not?

Of course. That's why it's called speculation.

Such an eventuality is an groundless assumption.

It's the premise of the speculation. You didn't need to bring your opinion about the technological possibility of AI into this discussion. Are you ever able to restrain yourself ?

Aah, obligations to beings in the universe one creates. Sounds familiar.

Indeed. I am holding god to my own moral standards. Of course, for this to matter, god would need to actually exist. Such an eventuality is a groundless assumption.

 

[Belz...]

I lay awake nights thinking of ways to annoy you.

I knew it !

 

[Belz...]

You are wrong—I have not only read the Scriptures, but studied them very carefully—I have considered all the objections, and am still convinced that there is ample reason for accepting the records as accurate.

You read the text and concluded that it's true ? That's not how you conclude that something is true, you know.

I know of no other God than Yahweh

I knoew of several others, but they, like yours, are fictional.

If you cannot stop yourself from preaching in an off-topic manner, then please go to another thread.

 

[Aridas]

Per capita perhaps and then only during the brief peaceable period towards the end of the last century. Its right back up there now and I expect it to get a lot worse over the next few decades.

And here's an article or two that counter your argument. Either way, in the larger and longer picture, they've decreased significantly. Given that I was talking about long term trends, not straight lines, your attempt just doesn't work very well. It may indeed get worse than it is currently, yet that's also overwhelmingly less than what it used to be.

 

[jhunter1163]

Do not personalize your arguments, remain civil and polite, and stick closer to the topic of the thread (which is not, and never has been, one another). Thank you for your anticipated cooperation.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: jhunter1163

 

[punshhh]

Yeah, that's what I thought. You just type for typing's sake.

Just trying to tease out what you do actually want to talk about.

Of course. That's why it's called speculation.

I'm quite happy to consider sentient AI. I'm sure they could worship you, I can't imagine what it would entail.

An observation I would make is that each of us is in a way a creator god to the cells of our own body. I expect that the millions of cells in my body regard me as some kind of all powerful creator. I am sure though that the molecules, or atoms in my body don't. Organelles perhaps, but only groupings of atoms exhibiting metabolic life of some kind.

It's the premise of the speculation. You didn't need to bring your opinion about the technological possibility of AI into this discussion. Are you ever able to restrain yourself ?

see above, I would place the emphasis on sentience when it comes to worship, rather than intelligence.

Indeed. I am holding god to my own moral standards. Of course, for this to matter, god would need to actually exist.

I already addressed this.

Such an eventuality is a groundless assumption.

Quite.