God right by virtue of being the creator ?

[MontagK505]

You are wrong—I have not only read the Scriptures, but studied them very carefully—I have considered all the objections, and am still convinced that there is ample reason for accepting the records as accurate.

I wish what you state was true—for every person that has lied has lost their morality.

The problem is, that many other people throughout history have made the same claim and yet there is a clear lack of consensus on scriptural meaning. This lack of consensus has even been used to justify torture-executions and warfare. A reasonable person might be led to the conclusion that it is a waste of time to mine these documents in a search for moral truth. By contrast, murder is seldom the result of scientific disputes.

 

[Slowvehicle]

You are wrong—I have not only read the Scriptures, but studied them very carefully—I have considered all the objections, and am still convinced that there is ample reason for accepting the records as accurate.

I wish what you state was true—for every person that has lied has lost their morality.

Including your 'god'...right?

In what way is your belief that I am the property of the divine monster you seek to appease more "moral" than my belief that humans have innate dignity and worth, without having to invent, or appeal to, any 'gods'?

 

[I Ratant]

This is what I said—breaking the simple commands that are given will have a detrimental effect on the family unit.

The entire purpose of creation is to advance this family unity---the main reason for judgement is against all that destroys the family.

.
"Creation" has no purpose.
The theisitic idea of creation is to control those people looking for an easy way to not spend any time thinking about life and what might come after.
"Thinking is painful", as my aero professor would tell us.
Having someone with charisma expound at length on the ways everyone should behave makes the herd feel warm all over.
That one can do moral and ethical things without groveling to some imaginary creature(s) is not mentioned by the god-shouters.
They need the feeling of control (and easy income) their threats generate in the unaware.

 

[I Ratant]

You are wrong—I have not only read the Scriptures, but studied them very carefully—I have considered all the objections, and am still convinced that there is ample reason for accepting the records as accurate.

I wish what you state was true—for every person that has lied has lost their morality.

.
Sad, that.
THE scripture is a record of sadism and vileness and fiction.
"Accurate" it isn't!
The human source (and only the human source) should be obvious to anyone really reading the words for content.

 

[Paul Bethke]

Remember what you said about lying. No, it is clear from the Christian bible that the god of the bible is a monster who all right thinking people should seek to destroy if it existed. We are fortunate that it doesn't exist. You wouldn't want actual humans to submit to the whims of such a lying, murdering, conniving, despicable piece of garbage, would you?

That is the way you see it—but that is not a true description of Yahweh—once you understand the reason for what is recorded, then you will form a different opinion. The Scriptures are not hidden—but open for all to see that which is recorded is to convey the circumstances that existed then. It has taken a long time for God to achieve his purpose, so we are living in a time when Yahweh must reveal himself by demonstrating his creative power.

Why do you think that? No gods have ever done anything since they clearly don't exist. Are you threatening to enforce your own interpretation of your odd religion on real people?

My belief is that God and the laws he has given will bring about peace on earth, by eradicating violence in all sectors of the world.

You will have no option but to submit to the rule of The Flying Spaghetti Monster. How does that sound to you?

Rather silly

No, that's just religious silliness. Your religion's laws are despicable and vile and must be fought at every turn. I refuse to murder my neighbor for picking up sticks on the "sabbath" and I won't stone my daughter to death for having sex out of wedlock nor will I own slaves just for the purpose of beating them according to the rules Jesus gave us.

It is because these laws were abolished that we have an immoral society, where sexual perversion is rampant. But if people taught their children the beauty of a sanctified marriage there would not be so much family disruption.

Why do you think that real humans should embrace such hateful and immoral laws? Do you think we should murder false prophets (by which I mean all of them)?

False prophets should be dealt with when they falsely advocate the departure from the laws of Yahweh.

 

[Slowvehicle]

I know of no other God than Yahweh, so it stands to reason that I must refer to him as Creator—and as such he surely has the right to dictate how creation should conduct themselves, and furthermore withhold his judgement until an appropriate time.

One who has "studied" the "scriptures" as much as you claim to have would know of the other 'gods' mentioned in the xian old testament.

Your assumption that your 'god' "created" anything (much less everything) founders upon the fact that your 'god' has not ever been demonstrated to exist.

Is this where you will present the practical, concrete, non-anecdotal, empirical, objective evidence for its existence?

 

[I Ratant]

I know of no other God than Yahweh...

.
There's millions of them!
Expand your reading.
And what you might find is that each culture's god or gods is quite fitted to -that- culture, while being completely unacceptable to the culture next door.
All religions and gods can't be true, as in real, but all can be false.. made up to suit the situation.
Hasn't been one yet that fits all.

 

[Paul Bethke]

.
"Creation" has no purpose.
The theisitic idea of creation is to control those people looking for an easy way to not spend any time thinking about life and what might come after.
"Thinking is painful", as my aero professor would tell us.
Having someone with charisma expound at length on the ways everyone should behave makes the herd feel warm all over.
That one can do moral and ethical things without groveling to some imaginary creature(s) is not mentioned by the god-shouters.
They need the feeling of control (and easy income) their threats generate in the unaware.

It is surprising how many people find themselves in a predicament that have been caused by their wrong actions. The prisons are full of such people who regret what they have done. People commit suicide—people murder—people commit adultery—the world is full of people with regrets.

If only people would do moral and ethical things as you say!! Faith is to teach people to be moral—and if one is moral, on what basis do people measure morality—it appears there are different standards?

 

[Paul Bethke]

One who has "studied" the "scriptures" as much as you claim to have would know of the other 'gods' mentioned in the xian old testament.

Your assumption that your 'god' "created" anything (much less everything) founders upon the fact that your 'god' has not ever been demonstrated to exist.

Is this where you will present the practical, concrete, non-anecdotal, empirical, objective evidence for its existence?

All other gods are false and Yahweh claims to be the only God—so you are correct, until God can offer substantial evidence of his existence, we who believe are at a temporary loss—but when this evidence is forthcoming then you will have to repent.

 

[Slowvehicle]

It is surprising how many people find themselves in a predicament that have been caused by their wrong actions. The prisons are full of such people who regret what they have done. People commit suicide—people murder—people commit adultery—the world is full of people with regrets.

If only people would do moral and ethical things as you say!! Faith is to teach people to be moral—and if one is moral, on what basis do people measure morality—it appears there are different standards?

I have a morbid curiosity as to which version of the xian superstition you think is the "right" version; and how you feel about the poor deluded souls who believe in a different version, with as much fervour and after as much study? Il Papa, or Fred Luter? Phelps and his ilk? Billy Hargiss? Something else, maybe?

How impotent of 'god' that it does not even seem to be able to manifest itself consistently, even to those who want to believe.

 

[Paul Bethke]

.
There's millions of them!
Expand your reading.
And what you might find is that each culture's god or gods is quite fitted to -that- culture, while being completely unacceptable to the culture next door.
All religions and gods can't be true, as in real, but all can be false.. made up to suit the situation.
Hasn't been one yet that fits all.

That is the situation that exists at the moment—but I know from the Scripture that Yahweh will have to reveal himself as the only God and Creator in order to persuade the world, this is emphasised throughout Scripture.

 

[Slowvehicle]

All other gods are false and Yahweh claims to be the only God—so you are correct, until God can offer substantial evidence of his existence, we who believe are at a temporary loss—but when this evidence is forthcoming then you will have to repent.

Ah, yes: sacred schadenfreude.

First, the evidence.

Until then, you'll just have to console yourself anticipating my eternal torment.

 

[Slowvehicle]

That is the situation that exists at the moment—but I know from the Scripture that Yahweh will have to reveal himself as the only God and Creator in order to persuade the world, this is emphasised throughout Scripture.

In and among the instructions on stonings, and saving the virgins for sex toys, and genocide, and baby-killing, and slave-beating, and so on.

Your 'god' is a poor persuader. So much for power...

 

[Paul Bethke]

The problem is, that many other people throughout history have made the same claim and yet there is a clear lack of consensus on scriptural meaning. This lack of consensus has even been used to justify torture-executions and warfare. A reasonable person might be led to the conclusion that it is a waste of time to mine these documents in a search for moral truth. By contrast, murder is seldom the result of scientific disputes.

You are correct in that Christianity is flawed in so many areas, because people have disregarded the simple fundamental truths—once we get back to basics there will be a consensus. Three hundred thousand different denominations does lead to confusion—especially where morality is concerned.

Truth is so simple—just be truthful—the Scripture are a true account of what is relayed—science may be looking for a way to verify or disprove what is written.

The only way to verify what is recorded is to repeat what is recorded—so some of the events recorded must be repeated in this day and age!

 

[RoboTimbo]

That is the way you see it—but that is not a true description of Yahweh—once you understand the reason for what is recorded, then you will form a different opinion. The Scriptures are not hidden—but open for all to see that which is recorded is to convey the circumstances that existed then. It has taken a long time for God to achieve his purpose, so we are living in a time when Yahweh must reveal himself by demonstrating his creative power.

Yes, the Christian bible is open for all to see the hatred and vileness inherent in 2000 year old bronze age goat herder morality. We are fortunate to have progressed beyond such despicable tribal violence and intolerance.

My belief is that God and the laws he has given will bring about peace on earth, by eradicating violence in all sectors of the world.

Why should your superstitious beliefs impinge on real people?

Rather silly

Ah good! You are on your way to understanding! Do you understand why it sounds silly to you?

It is because these laws were abolished that we have an immoral society, where sexual perversion is rampant. But if people taught their children the beauty of a sanctified marriage there would not be so much family disruption.

No, it is because those laws aligned with the morality of the day, 2000 years ago, in bronze age goat herder mentality. I still refuse to murder my neighbor for picking up sticks on the "sabbath" or stoning my daughter to death for having sex out of wedlock nor will I own slaves for the purpose of beating them according to the rules that Jesus gave us. Do you agree with Jesus's rules for beating slaves or are you immoral?

False prophets should be dealt with when they falsely advocate the departure from the laws of Yahweh.

No, you've added the last part. That isn't part of scriptures. Remember what you said about lying.

What do you mean, "dealt with"?

 

[Paul Bethke]

In and among the instructions on stonings, and saving the virgins for sex toys, and genocide, and baby-killing, and slave-beating, and so on.

Your 'god' is a poor persuader. So much for power...

Again you display a lack of insight—you have only looked at a portion of what is recorded, not taking into account the whole scenario.

 

[Frozenwolf150]

Again you display a lack of insight—you have only looked at a portion of what is recorded, not taking into account the whole scenario.

Ah, the "you're taking it out of context" argument.

The context is that people invented God and wrote stories about him, to justify their existing morals and ethics. Ever notice how God acts according to human whims and desires? Ever notice how God is given human traits and emotions?

If there is a god out there, chances are that nobody got him (or her) right, especially not the authors of the Bible.

 

[Paul Bethke]

Yes, the Christian bible is open for all to see the hatred and vileness inherent in 2000 year old bronze age goat herder morality. We are fortunate to have progressed beyond such despicable tribal violence and intolerance.

I do not believe that the world has progresses from what existed 2000 years ago—you do not keep track of what is going on in the world today, and of what has taken place in the last 200 years.

Why should your superstitious beliefs impinge on real people?

My beliefs are that all people tell the truth—do not steal and do not commit adultery.

Ah good! You are on your way to understanding! Do you understand why it sounds silly to you?

It is silly because it is not real.

No, it is because those laws aligned with the morality of the day, 2000 years ago, in bronze age goat herder mentality. I still refuse to murder my neighbor for picking up sticks on the "sabbath" or stoning my daughter to death for having sex out of wedlock nor will I own slaves for the purpose of beating them according to the rules that Jesus gave us. Do you agree with Jesus's rules for beating slaves or are you immoral?

Today there is still slavery in the world---if a person has slaves then the law stipulates how to treat slaves. You see sex out of wedlock is incorrect—having sex constitutes marriage---so if she does not stay with the first person and has sex with another then she will be committing adultery.

No, you've added the last part. That isn't part of scriptures. Remember what you said about lying. What do you mean, "dealt with"?

A false prophet is one who does not relay the truth about God—God stipulates one thing and a false prophet contradicts that stipulation.

 

[Giordano]

My beliefs are that all people tell the truth—do not steal and do not commit adultery.



A false prophet is one who does not relay the truth about God—God stipulates one thing and a false prophet contradicts that stipulation.

As to the first part: is this fantasy or did you mis-state your view?
As to the second part: so you do promote slavery and genocide or are you a false prophet?

 

[Paul Bethke]

Ah, the "you're taking it out of context" argument.

The context is that people invented God and wrote stories about him, to justify their existing morals and ethics. Ever notice how God acts according to human whims and desires? Ever notice how God is given human traits and emotions?

If there is a god out there, chances are that nobody got him (or her) right, especially not the authors of the Bible.

That is true in one sense—but not true of Yahweh, Yahweh revealed himself and people recorded that revelation.

So once again the only way to know if these stories were invented is to have some of them repeated—there is no other way—so it is incumbent on God to have these events repeated.

So the need arises to systematically repeat all the miracles recorded—but this will not bode well with the inhabitants of the world!