UKIP a one trick Pony

The latest news about Nigel "attention whore" Farage is that he is considering running the the Newark by-election to be held following the resignation of Patrick Mercer over a cash-for-questions scandal.

Farage believes that if he runs, and wins, David Cameron will have resign as Conservative party leader and Prime Minister. Most of the pundits on the radio this morning believe that the Newark Tory vote is solid, that Farage won't win and will be exposed as a busted flush.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27216172



edited to add......

It seems that "Brave Sir Nigel" has decided not to stand in the by-election and has instead decided to bravely run away.
 
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Even if the basic premises of the above were true, which I think they are, not winning that by-election would sadly not have been enough to show Farage up as a busted flush. Only bombing in the Euros will do that, and I doubt if that will happen unfortunately.

Rolfe.
 
The latest news about Nigel "attention whore" Farage is that he is considering running the the Newark by-election to be held following the resignation of Patrick Mercer over a cash-for-questions scandal.

In fact, while you call him an attention whore, and Nick Cohen demands that more attention be paid to Farage, and while UKIP are being referred to as racist loonies by the main parties and their newspapers, I tend to agree with Simon Jenkins that this kind of sliming of Farage and co. doesn't only fail to work but completely backfires:

I cannot tell if this week's cross-party plan to brand Ukip as racist emanates from the spin doctors of Nigel Farage's party or from some madcap ivory tower in Westminster. On all previous evidence, it will do Ukip no harm and, by keeping the party that wants Britain out of Europe in the headlines, will probably do it some good.

Like project fear, which was intended to scare Scottish voters into saying no to independence, but which did the opposite, it shows how bad some politicians are at politics. As the former Labour home secretary Jacqui Smith said yesterday, "There are many potential and actual Labour voters who feel all the frustration and insecurities expressed by Ukip. Telling them they are wrong and, worse, closet racists, is unlikely to win their support." David Cameron learned that lesson when he called Ukip members "loonies and fruitcakes", and then watched their popularity surge.

Most politicians of the three main parties are considered to be crap by the majority of the electorate, which is partly why people vote less than they did before.

But one of the main reasons for this is that the three main parties spend so much time talking to themselves and seem to also believe that if they put some "message" out there then people will believe it. In short, the three main parties insult the intelligence of voters who might just punish them for it. Jenkins is completely correct that this has a parallel with the Scottish independence movement where the more the three main parties threatened the Scots and talked of doom and gloom and lampooned Salmond, the more that Scottish voters got pissed off with them. They are now doing the same to people who may end up voting UKIP.
 
Most of the pundits on the radio this morning believe that the Newark Tory vote is solid, that Farage won't win and will be exposed as a busted flush.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27216172



edited to add......

It seems that "Brave Sir Nigel" has decided not to stand in the by-election and has instead decided to bravely run away.

And, typically, while most of the pundits are confidently predicting the end of UKIP and the inevitable expulsion to Laughingstockton for Farage, the opinion polls show UKIP soaring into the lead. I wonder how all that publicity is failing to damage them.

Nigel Farage has bounced back from his decision not to stand in the Newark byelection as a new opinion poll found that Ukip was on course to achieve an emphatic victory in the European parliamentary elections next month.

The Ukip leader, who began the day denying that he was too "frit" to stand in Newark, was shown to be the dominant force in British politics at the moment after a dramatic increase in support for his party.

The ComRes/ITV News poll put support for Ukip at 38% for the European elections – an increase of eight points since the beginning of the month. Labour is down three points on 27% while the Tories trail in third place on 18%, down four points. The Liberal Democrats remain unchanged on 8%.
 
Don't UKIP always do well at the European elections? Partly because so many people don't care/don't vote at them, and also because UKIP has 2 main sources of support. Their core supporters are white working class, not quite as racist as the BNP, and tend to consistently vote for them. Then on top of that they have euro sceptic Tories who will vote for them in the European elections as a protest vote against the Tories, but don't dare split the right wing vote in the event of a general election, so go back to voting Tory. Note that while they are polling at 38% for the European elections, they are still down at 18% on voting intention for a general election.
 
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And, typically, while most of the pundits are confidently predicting the end of UKIP and the inevitable expulsion to Laughingstockton for Farage, the opinion polls show UKIP soaring into the lead. I wonder how all that publicity is failing to damage them.

The three major parties are all damaged.

The UKIP message is an attractive one, especially in times of austerity.

Farage himself appeals to a section of society.
 
Most politicians of the three main parties are considered to be crap by the majority of the electorate, which is partly why people vote less than they did before.


The trouble is, if politicians are perceived as sleazy troughers only interested in their next expenses payment, then the sort of people who go into politics are indeed sleazy troughers only interested in their own enrichment. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The media carry a lot of the blame here, in promoting that impression, although of course it hasn't been entirely unjustified. Self-fulfilling prophecy. What happened to the dedicated intellectuals interested in a life of public service? Perhaps they never existed in the first place. Nowadays a intellectual who fancied a bit of contributing to society would run a mile from the idea of going into politics.

This is the background that sees the rise of characters like Farage.

Rolfe.
 
If anything, Farage is probably one of the more genuine politicians. People like him because they sense that he's actually saying what he believes to be true. He IS the guy who wants to serve what he sees as the interests of the country, rather than saying what will get him elected.
 
If anything, Farage is probably one of the more genuine politicians. People like him because they sense that he's actually saying what he believes to be true. He IS the guy who wants to serve what he sees as the interests of the country, rather than saying what will get him elected.

Yes. And no. The fact is that UKIP's policies amount to getting out of the EU, wasn't it nice back in the old days when ******* and ***** knew their place, and - especially at a local level - jumping on any bandwagon that rolls along. They've done this round our way with some very unlikely campaigns, but get away with it because they're always the outsider, smearing all politicians in the crudest of terms and saying whatever will be popular in the short term.

This isn't just hearsay. I'm involved in a significant campaign at the moment, which is taking up a lot of my time. We were recently contacted by the local UKIP candidate, asking about supporting us. That was particularly surprising, as what we're campaigning for is in direct opposition to their policy in this area, so we queried that policy and asked what practical support he could give. His response was that the other parties had let us down, and UKIP have a smattering of local councillors. That's all he said.

They're positioning themselves quite cleverly, cynically picking up populist causes to build support but always falling back on the plausibly-deniable racism of their core message if anyone tries to call them on it. And the media play along with it because they love a garrulous eccentric who gives good quote, especially when the alternative is another bland spokesdrone from any other party.
 
UKIP is part of the continuing process to make the far-right electable
 
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If anything, Farage is probably one of the more genuine politicians. People like him because they sense that he's actually saying what he believes to be true. He IS the guy who wants to serve what he sees as the interests of the country, rather than saying what will get him elected.

That may be what they sense; I don't believe it is true. I think he's saying exactly what he thinks will get him elected. The problem is that the other parties appear so bad at politics that their efforts to dismiss him are in fact making him more popular.
 
That may be what they sense; I don't believe it is true. I think he's saying exactly what he thinks will get him elected. The problem is that the other parties appear so bad at politics that their efforts to dismiss him are in fact making him more popular.

You think it's Farage's aim to get elected? I'm not sure about that. That might sound crazy, but bear with me. He's constantly shifting the whole political spectrum even further to the right, and doing very nicely for himself at the same time. If UKIP start to win seats (other than local councils and Euro Parliament, because no one cares about those, natch), their opportunism, total lack of coherent policies and all-round nuttiness will be laid bare for a national audience. It could be the death of them, just as the Lib Dems have almost been destroyed by getting their bums on the government benches. I think he's probably fairly happy with the status quo.

I think this Nick Cohen article is about the best analysis of UKIP I've seen. All of us - politicians, media, voters - are reaping what we've sown, because we've created a bland soundbite culture that actually needs shaking up. The problem is that it creates a void for the likes of UKIP to come along and do just that.
 
My highlighting.

The UKIP is protesting against a caricature of the EU. The problem for those, like myself, who are pro-EU are that the anti-EU points are simplistic (the UK is full, foreigners telling us what to do, waste of money) and easy to communicate (not least because they play to the popular stereotypes of foreigners in the UK) whereas the counterpoint is more nuanced and complex.
This is a common phenomena with fringe groups, the USAian teabaggers and their caricature of the Federal government and/or the UN come to mind. There's also the alties and the caricature of "Big Pharma".
Classic strawmannery.

You'll notice that that referendum was to join something called the "European Economic Community", aka "The Common Market" - a trading bloc that included very little in the way of political union. .
1. The Common Market ≠ EEC. The EEC was a classic common market area, combined with additional aspects including a customs union and general removal of trade barriers.

2. The EEC was already on track towards a larger, closer and broader union with the UK, Ireland and Denmark joined. For example the direct election of the parliament was part of the EEC that Britain joined even though this didn't happen until '79.
That is a really, really intriguing comment, and I'm wondering if anyone else is viewing it in the same way I am.

Rolfe.
Oh yes :D. I expect some furious backpeddling and attempts to differentiate soon.

Yeah, that was an interesting spin. In thought-experiment-land, if Scotland were to be expelled from the EU, then EU fishing boats would no longer have access to Scottish waters. It's pure common sense. They would also no longer have access to Norwegian waters, because Norway is not in the EU and current EU access to Norwegian waters depends on an agreement which given Norwegian boats access to Scottish waters.

Salmond points this out, and suddenly he's "threatening" and "bullying". No, he's really not. If you throw me out of the car-pooling club, you can't expect to come round and make use of my car any time you feel like it any more.

Rolfe.
That's expecting consistency from politicians.
 
Yes. And no. The fact is that UKIP's policies amount to getting out of the EU
Yes.

wasn't it nice back in the old days when ******* and ***** knew their place
Hmmm, I hear this accusation a lot but I rarely see it.

Now be clear - I'm sure the UKIP platform attracts racists. Their policy about Europe and immigration is clearly going to be a lapdance for racists, and UKIP is a much more acceptable party for racists to vote for (as compared to say the BNP). So I'm sure many UKIP voters are racists, and many members are too.

But it seems like a stretch to me to say that racism what their policies amount to.

and - especially at a local level - jumping on any bandwagon that rolls along. They've done this round our way with some very unlikely campaigns, but get away with it because they're always the outsider, smearing all politicians in the crudest of terms and saying whatever will be popular in the short term.
Yep. But there's nothing actually wrong with any of that. Indeed the whole point of having a central government made up of politicians from different regions is so that local concerns from all over play a part in how the central government does it's thing. Jumping on popular local bandwagons is part of what politicians are supposed to do.

This isn't just hearsay. I'm involved in a significant campaign at the moment, which is taking up a lot of my time. We were recently contacted by the local UKIP candidate, asking about supporting us. That was particularly surprising, as what we're campaigning for is in direct opposition to their policy in this area, so we queried that policy and asked what practical support he could give. His response was that the other parties had let us down, and UKIP have a smattering of local councillors. That's all he said.
I don't doubt it. A bit of "politics as usual" there, going against your own beliefs to curry a little popular support. Which does run against the "card carrying true believers" idea to be sure. But he certainly wouldn't be the first politician to support something he was against to curry a little political gain - and in cases like that it's hard to judge whether it's a good trade without knowing what the issue in question was.

They're positioning themselves quite cleverly, cynically picking up populist causes to build support but always falling back on the plausibly-deniable racism of their core message if anyone tries to call them on it. And the media play along with it because they love a garrulous eccentric who gives good quote, especially when the alternative is another bland spokesdrone from any other party.
I think there's a tendency for people to claim that UKIP are just lightweight flim-flam merchants who use slimy tricks to cloak a racist message and trick otherwise nice people into voting for them. I think that people like that narrative because it lets them dismiss UKIP and what they're saying rather than engaging with it.

And I don't deny that there are probably a lot of elements of truth to that - though one could probably say similarly damming things of the main parties. But in addition to that, the truth is that UKIP have tapped into a genuine concern that a great many people have. They see British culture being diluted and foreign cultures being imported wholesale, and it concerns them.

Now you might think that's a stupid thing to be concerned about. But you don't convince people of that by pretending that those concerns don't exist or don't actually matter to people, or that they've been tricked into thinking that way.

And you certainly won't scold people into changing their minds by telling them they're a bunch of racists.

A great many people actually have a real, honest and sincere concern about this. Mainstream politics needs to treat it as such, or those people will go elsewhere.
 
That may be what they sense; I don't believe it is true. I think he's saying exactly what he thinks will get him elected.
Perhaps. In the final analysis, only Farrage can know.

The problem is that the other parties appear so bad at politics that their efforts to dismiss him are in fact making him more popular.
It's the age old dilemma of the big insider versus the small outsider. If they ignore him, he can trumpet that they have no answer to what he says. If they take him on, then even if they win they've given him the credibility of a seat at the table. And if they take him on and lose, they give him a lot more credibility - a lesson Nick Clegg has had recently.
 
Now be clear - I'm sure the UKIP platform attracts racists. Their policy about Europe and immigration is clearly going to be a lapdance for racists, and UKIP is a much more acceptable party for racists to vote for (as compared to say the BNP). So I'm sure many UKIP voters are racists, and many members are too.

But it seems like a stretch to me to say that racism what their policies amount to.
Farage himself tries to uphold that image. Otherwise, he would simply have embraced a European coalition with Wilders, Front National etc.

However, the party obviously does not only attract racist voters - something he cannot prohibit - or rank-and-file members - also hard to vet - but time and again, it turns out that UKIP candidates are racists, as the recent remark about Lenny Henry shows. That is where Farage utterly fails to keep racism out of his party. Even though he and his German wife are working 24/7 for the party. :rolleyes:

It's the age old dilemma of the big insider versus the small outsider. If they ignore him, he can trumpet that they have no answer to what he says. If they take him on, then even if they win they've given him the credibility of a seat at the table. And if they take him on and lose, they give him a lot more credibility - a lesson Nick Clegg has had recently.
Nick Clegg's problem, basically, was that he thought he could hammer out a coalition agreement with the Tories in a week. I'd chalk that up to (understandable) naivité in a country not used to coalition governments. Maybe he should have asked his Dutch relatives for some advice on the matter. ;)
 
Demetri Marchessini, noted UKIP donor, sponsor and supporter is at it again. You may remember him for his obsession with, and book about, women wearing trousers.

Last week he was interviewed by Channel 4's Michael Crick (Independent article on it, I can't find the actual interview online but here is his own transcript) where he reiterated his opposition to women wearing trousers. In fact not banning women from wearing them will cause the end of Western Civilisation As We Know It.

Also in his interview Marchessini pontificated at length on his other views:

  • marital rape is impossible (“you can’t have rape if you make love on Friday and make love on Sunday, you can’t say Saturday is rape. Once the woman accepts, she accepts”).
  • there is no such thing as homosexual love, merely lust (“they go out at nights and they pick up five, ten, fifteen different partners in one night”). Hmm, anyone else get a whiff of jealousy?
  • gays in committed relationships just roommates who continue to cruise for anonymous sex
  • black slaves were better off as slaves in America than they would have been living in Africa
In the interview he continued to demonstrate his ignorance of mirrors stating that:
women do not realise what they look like from the rear, they can’t see themselves from the rear. And they don’t realise how terrible they look from the rear
He does however oppose mandatory execution for women wearing trousers.
Women should wear skirts to "excite men" because:
that’s the only way the world is going to continue. If they don’t, then men are going to stop *********** them, you understand, and may I tell you, with great respect, that the incidence of lovemaking in Western Europe has fallen drastically.
There's plenty more in the transcript, depending on your tolerence for inane misogyny.
 

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