Zohran Mamdani

[theprestige]

Are there rules about selling dangerous goods in either New York state, New York city, or the US?

Scooters and ebikes aren't considered dangerous goods in that sense.

A normal bicycle can be deadly, ridden at speed down a crowded sidewalk.

Again, there are no rules against selling or owning escooters and ebikes in NYC. It's only the operation of them on city streets that is restricted.

 

[jimbob]

Scooters and ebikes aren't considered dangerous goods in that sense.

A normal bicycle can be deadly, ridden at speed down a crowded sidewalk.

Again, there are no rules against selling or owning escooters and ebikes in NYC. It's only the operation of them on city streets that is restricted.

I wasn't thinking about the vehicle as much as the battery.

 

[theprestige]

I wasn't thinking about the vehicle as much as the battery.

You weren't thinking about Mamdani's stated concern so much as some other concern you were hoping to swap in without anyone noticing.

Anyway, the concern about batteries has the same constraints.

 

[Planigale]

In many places selling a bike that did not meet safety standards is illegal, (one of the more common causes of house fires now is exploding ebike batteries when being charged). Ebikes are banned from our hospital because of the fire risk (whereas lots of people bring their bikes into their office or leave them in the basement lockable bike racks). I am sure that there are laws about selling unsafe electric products. Potentially one could think about making the venders or manufacturers strictly liable for injuries and damage caused by unsafe products they have sold, that certainly has happened with cars etc.

If you are selling a bike that could not be legally used on the roads it may be fraud if you sell it without making it clear that this model is not street legal.

E-bike lithium batteries 'fastest growing' fire risk

A charity says fires caused by substandard e-scooter and e-bike batteries are "tearing through homes".

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[dirtywick]

Round of Applause for Amazon, Who Is No Longer Selling Illegal E-Bike Batteries to New Yorkers. Finally.

In a significant step forward for fire safety in New York City, Amazon is now at least partially in compliance with new city laws banning the sale of uncertified e-bike batteries.

www.bicycling.com

so i found this article from 2023 which references a nyc law enacted outlining ebikes sales, not operation but sales, that fail to meet safety standards

The New York City Council - File #: Int 0663-2022

Title: A Local Law to amend the administrative code of the city of New York, in relation to the sale, lease, and rental of powered bicycles, powered mobility devices and storage batteries

legistar.council.nyc.gov

 

[W.D.Clinger]

The New York City Council - File #: Int 0663-2022

Title: A Local Law to amend the administrative code of the city of New York, in relation to the sale, lease, and rental of powered bicycles, powered mobility devices and storage batteries

legistar.council.nyc.gov

Quoting that law:

No person shall distribute, sell, lease, rent or offer for sale, lease or rental a powered bicycle
unless:
1. The electrical system for such bicycle has been certified by an accredited testing laboratory for
compliance with Underwriters Laboratories (UL) standard 2849, or such other safety standard as the
department has established by rule in consultation with the fire department; and

...and that certification is displayed in an approved manner.

Sounds as though the New York State Department of Motor Vehicles is authorized to set safety standards that my go beyond UL standard 2849. As for whether they have done so, I have no idea.

No penalty for a first violation, $1000 for each subsequent violation.

 

[Emily's Cat]

How does having amenities within walking distance equate to a lack of privacy?

I'm typing this, sitting in my back garden eating the croissant I bought today after maybe a 300m walk each way to the shops. I can't see the shops from here.

Can you hear other people, traffic, etc?

Look, I get that not everyone is concerned about the same things. That's my point - not everyone is concerned about the same things. I'm not suggesting that nobody should be allowed to live in dense cities or walking-distance villages. If that's your cup of tea, go for it.

On the other hand at least a few posters here have in the past expressed opinions that everyone should live in cities. I disagree. I think cities are largely ◊◊◊◊◊◊ places, and I know I'm not alone in that view.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Why would you think that?

If they were physical shops selling items that were illegal in New York, the equivalent of Trading Standards would act.

Why on earth would e-bikes and e-scooters be illegal in the first place?

 

[kookbreaker]

Why on earth would e-bikes and e-scooters be illegal in the first place?

Because the ones being looked at have speeds too high for state and city law.

 

[dirtywick]

additionally the lack of proper electrical safety of the components. basically, from what light reading i've done there were a string of lethal accidents and fires linked to them

 

[Donal]

Can you hear other people, traffic, etc?

That's not privacy. That's isolation. Which, you are entitled to if you want, but I don't know too many people who count their personal space in acres.

Look, I get that not everyone is concerned about the same things. That's my point - not everyone is concerned about the same things. I'm not suggesting that nobody should be allowed to live in dense cities or walking-distance villages. If that's your cup of tea, go for it.

On the other hand at least a few posters here have in the past expressed opinions that everyone should live in cities. I disagree. I think cities are largely ◊◊◊◊◊◊ places, and I know I'm not alone in that view.

Who said everyone should live in cities?

 

[Donal]

Why on earth would e-bikes and e-scooters be illegal in the first place?

They're seen as a "worst of all worlds" between bicycles and motor vehicles. They are too small and slow to travel like motorcycles or cars and too fast and dangerous to travel with bikes and pedestrians.

 

[jimbob]

additionally the lack of proper electrical safety of the components. basically, from what light reading i've done there were a string of lethal accidents and fires linked to them

That was where I was going. Or dangerous brakes etc

 

[Resume]

Because the ones being looked at have speeds too high for state and city law.

Also, too many distracted riders. Almost every day I see a kid flying down a sidewalk on one of these things, eye's glued on their phone, blowing through intersections at speed as well. Here are some of Illinois' new e-mobility laws. Haven't seen them enforced though.

 

[Emily's Cat]

They're seen as a "worst of all worlds" between bicycles and motor vehicles. They are too small and slow to travel like motorcycles or cars and too fast and dangerous to travel with bikes and pedestrians.

Okay - educate me. How are e-bikes materially different from mopeds?

 

[Donal]

Mopeds aren't allowed in bike lanes. Also, as others have mentioned, there doesn't seem to be much in the way of quality standards, which becomes an issue with those batteries.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Also, too many distracted riders. Almost every day I see a kid flying down a sidewalk on one of these things, eye's glued on their phone, blowing through intersections at speed as well. Here are some of Illinois' new e-mobility laws. Haven't seen them enforced though.

That seems like a reasonable approach.

IIRC, the fairly new law where I live allows their use on roads with speed limits lower than 50 mph, requires licensing and registration, and prohibits their use on sidewalks or in bike lanes. But it's pretty new, I think cops are in the "stop and inform" stage.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Mopeds aren't allowed in bike lanes.

Well yeah, I wouldn't expect them to be allowed in bike lanes or on sidewalks.

Also, as others have mentioned, there doesn't seem to be much in the way of quality standards, which becomes an issue with those batteries.

Okay... I guess I'm not really clear on why the batteries come into play with respect to legality. They're essentially the same kind of batteries used in EVs, aren't they? Which is also the same kind of batteries used in RC cars and cell phones.

I get that poor quality batteries are a problem (for all of those items), but it seems like that would be some separate sort of legislation, not specifically targeting ebikes etc. wouldn't it?

 

[Donal]

Well yeah, I wouldn't expect them to be allowed in bike lanes or on sidewalks.

Okay... I guess I'm not really clear on why the batteries come into play with respect to legality. They're essentially the same kind of batteries used in EVs, aren't they? Which is also the same kind of batteries used in RC cars and cell phones.

Same in the sense that my kid's playschool toolset hammer is the same as my sledge hammer. Which is why EVs are subject to federal and state regulations regarding the safety o their construction.

I get that poor quality batteries are a problem (for all of those items), but it seems like that would be some separate sort of legislation, not specifically targeting ebikes etc. wouldn't it?

Maybe. But use case and other factors come into play. If the battery for my drill gun over heats, it burns my hand. It doesn't send a flaming ball down the street through pedestrians

 

[Matthew Best]

I don't know what it's like over there, but here in the UK there are also different rules/laws about crash helmet use. Cyclists don't have to wear helmets, but motorcycle and moped users do. E-bikes are supposed to be more like bicycles and have maximum speeds of about 15mph and thus exempt from compulsory helmet use, but many of them are capable of going much faster and thus their users should also wear helmets, but don't because e-bikes are exempt. It's an area of the law that seems to be not well understood or enforced.