Zionism.

[steverino]

[*]There is an informal belief in "cultural" Jews. Basically, the only requirement for being Jewish is if you are raised in a Jewish household (and what that might mean is anyone's guess).

A Jewish household means that when you want to tighten the screws on a kitchen cabinet handle, you use a butter knife instead of a screwdriver because the tools are unused, locked away somewhere in the garage for emergencies. As a result, the little slits in the heads of the screws contain cream cheese. At least, that was the scene in my kitchen as a boy.

 

[marksman]

A Jewish household means that when you want to tighten the screws on a kitchen cabinet handle

I though it meant you had to call a contractor!

 

[Cleon]

A Jewish household means that when you want to tighten the screws on a kitchen cabinet handle, you use a butter knife instead of a screwdriver because the tools are unused, locked away somewhere in the garage for emergencies. As a result, the little slits in the heads of the screws contain cream cheese. At least, that was the scene in my kitchen as a boy.

My Dad has a wood shop (and is in the process of building a guitar), and my grandfather on Mom's (Orthodox) side was an avid woodworker as well as a professional electrician.

Jews and woodworking are like lox and bagels! What's up with your family, dude?

 

[Darth Rotor]

My Dad has a wood shop (and is in the process of building a guitar), and my grandfather on Mom's (Orthodox) side was an avid woodworker as well as a professional electrician.

Jews and woodworking are like lox and bagels! What's up with your family, dude?

Be careful, you know what happened to one Jewish carpenter and a particularly simple shop project that involved two long straight timbers!

Forewarned is forearmed.

DR

 

[Cleon]

Be careful, you know what happened to one Jewish carpenter and a particularly simple shop project that involved two long straight timbers!

Forewarned is forearmed.

Yeah, it impressed people so much that he kept getting nailed.

 

[David Swidler]

Forewarned is forearmed.

DR

I think the forearms in question were quite adversely affected.

 

[steverino]

Woodworking Jews? Cleon, I think that's a Southern thing.

 

[Thunder]

I taught a woodshop class at a summer camp...

 

[Cactus Wren]

Just to keep this discussion interesting where does a net.acquaintance of mine fall who claims to have converted from Catholicism to Messianic Judaism?

 

[Cleon]

Woodworking Jews? Cleon, I think that's a Southern thing.

That would work, except that my family's all from Yankeeland. I grew up in Pittsburgh, my Dad is from NYC, and my mother is from Cincinnati.

 

[webfusion]

That's Cincinnati.

 

[marksman]

Just to keep this discussion interesting where does a net.acquaintance of mine fall who claims to have converted from Catholicism to Messianic Judaism?

Assuming he can't trace his matrilineal descendants to a Jew...
Orthodox Jews would say "Not a Jew"
Reform Jews would say "Not a Jew"
Cultural Jews would likely say "Not a Jew"

Only other Messianic Jews (who are, for the most part, Christians seeking to explore Jesus' Jewish heritage) would consider him a Jew. In my opinion, he's not a Jew.

 

[steverino]

Assuming he can't trace his matrilineal descendants to a Jew...
Orthodox Jews would say "Not a Jew"
Reform Jews would say "Not a Jew"
Cultural Jews would likely say "Not a Jew"

Only other Messianic Jews (who are, for the most part, Christians seeking to explore Jesus' Jewish heritage) would consider him a Jew. In my opinion, he's not a Jew.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Judaism

In December 1989, the Supreme Court of Israel set a legal precedent when it denied the right of return to Gary and Shirley Beresford, Messianic Jews from South Africa. In rejecting their petition, Supreme Court Justice Menachem Elon cited their belief in Jesus. “In the last two thousand years of history the Jewish people have decided that Messianic Jews do not belong to the Jewish nation and have no right to force themselves on it,” he wrote, concluding that “those who believe in Jesus, are, in fact, Christians.”[14]

This is a mixed message. I agree that if no trace of Judaism is in the mother's line, a Messianic "Jew" is not a Jew. But I believe that, as my mother is Jewish, I cannot be denied the right of return, regardless of what I believe. IOW, I do not think there is an official legal litmus test on what I believe. I can worship the great bald eagle in my private life. If my mom is Jewish, and I want to live in Tel Aviv, I think I would be allowed, regardless of my belief system.

 

[Loss Leader]

Just to keep this discussion interesting where does a net.acquaintance of mine fall who claims to have converted from Catholicism to Messianic Judaism?

Somewhere between dingdong and whackdoodle.

 

[webfusion]

*bump*

In the News:

Israelis stood silently for two minutes to remember the victims of the Holocaust on yesterday morning.

Pedestrians froze in their tracks, buses stopped on busy streets, and cars on highways pulled over as the country paused to pay respect to the 6 million Jews killed by the Nazis.

Only in Israel.

 

[Thunder]

I wonder if there will be a day when the Jewish people put these things behind us. Don't we have anything positive to celebrate? Must victimhood be the dominating feature of our culture till kingdom come?

 

[webfusion]

Holocaust Remembrance Day, in Israel, is not a 'celebration of victimhood' -- The day is set aside for personal stories of triumph, of personal victories, and collective emergence of a destroyed people from the ashes to build a nation that is a modern, well-developed, attractive place. Israelis have everything to be proud of, and we are positive about our future. That you seem to think "victimhood" is a dominating feature of "our culture" says more about you than it does about Israel.

By the way, in the next few days, Israel sounds another siren, to stand at attention again, as we commemorate the lost soldiers who defended our independence in each war... this is as far from "victimhood" as it gets, to fight for liberty and know that it's worth fighting for.

I've asked if you had ever been to Israel, parky76, and I'm still waiting to know.

 

[Mycroft]

I wonder if there will be a day when the Jewish people put these things behind us. Don't we have anything positive to celebrate? Must victimhood be the dominating feature of our culture till kingdom come?

The Jewish people I know celebrate a lot that's positive. At a recent Passover Seder (sp?) I attended with some friends, for example, was all about liberation, coming together as a people, and remembering other people who are oppressed. Given that the event being commemorated was Exodus, where the Jewish people are liberated from slavery in Egypt, it’s a pretty close analogue of commemorating the Holocaust.

The positive and negative are inexorably intertwined. The story of oppression is also inevitably the story of finding the strength to survive and overcome that oppression. If you can look at that and see only victimhood, then the real issue is with your perception and your own relationship with this culture.

 

[webfusion]

Didn't really know where to put this item ---- maybe right here would be good, as a footnote to what Mycroft and I have just posted.

Liviu Librescu, 76, was gunned down while blocking the doorway into his classroom long enough to allow students to jump from windows during the rampage that claimed 32 lives on Monday.

"On the day of remembrance, this Holocaust survivor gave his own life so others may live," President Bush said at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial. "We honor his memory, we take strength from his example."

Romanian President Traian Basescu awarded Librescu their highest national decoration (posthumously) for his "heroism" during the V-T massacre.

Librescu was born in Romania, is an Israeli citizen and had lived
in the United States for 20 years. His body will be flown for burial
to Israel, his son confirmed.

Z"L

 

[The Great Hairy One]

Difference being, those aboriginals didn't use violence to get their point across. Neither did they blow themselves up in a crowded market.

They did use violence, quite a lot of it. There was a raging guerrilla war in Northern Queensland from approx. 1850 to 1880 or so. And sporadic outbreaks of violence still occur - there were riots in Redfern (a mostly Aboriginal suburb in Sydney) in 2004, where quite a few people were badly injured (http://www.smh.com.au/specials/redfern/).

Whilst Australian Aborigines did not use suicide bombers as a tactic, if they had had access to "modern" weaponry in the 19th century the modern face of Australia would be very much different.

Cheers,
TGHO