Zionism.

[webfusion]

Here is but one example of the Zionists being positive, and being pro-active, in pursuit of a better life for all the inhabitants of the region.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/849675.html
Millions of Olive trees to be planted, to benefit the Palestinians, Israelis and Jordanians together.

 

[Gurdur]

They did use violence, quite a lot of it. There was a raging guerrilla war in Northern Queensland from approx. 1850 to 1880 or so.

I would say that that was a fair bit of an exaggeration; and especially in early Queensland, reports of Aboriginal violence were often created to provide an excuse for the large-scale dispossession and depopulation of the Aboriginals that did occur there, by the white station owners and farmers.

Certainly, at some periods, there was some very small-scale guerilla war sometimes; for example, in the very first 16 years of the Port Jackson colony, there is some indirect evidence that a local Aboriginal leader led people to drive off game away from the colony, so that the colonists had acute food shortages for quite a long while.

But most such incidents were very small-scale, owing to the very small (relatively) coherent, organised groups of Aboriginals involved; Australian Aboriginals were marked by huge and many linguistic and group divides, and so there was no such thing as a cross-community resistance for the most part.

 

[The Great Hairy One]

I agree with you Gurdur, and it is very hard to find accurate reports on what was actually happening in Queensland at that time. I'm just pointing out that the Australian Aborigines did use violence, quite a bit in fact, and whilst they didn't use suicide bombers, they certainly used the tactics which were available to them at the time.

Cheers,
TGHO

 

[steverino]

I wonder if there will be a day when the Jewish people put these things behind us. Don't we have anything positive to celebrate? Must victimhood be the dominating feature of our culture till kingdom come?

Ironically, it seems one of the reasons Jews suffer in the wrath of certain gentiles is that Jews are considered "over-achievers." While we should never forget the Holocaust, we should also never forget the positive contributions from the Jewish community. So we celebrate the positive achievements of Einstein, Jonas Salk, Leonard Nemoy-, etc.

 

[The Great Hairy One]

Ironically, it seems one of the reasons Jews suffer in the wrath of certain gentiles is that Jews are considered "over-achievers." While we should never forget the Holocaust, we should also never forget the positive contributions from the Jewish community. So we celebrate the positive achievements of Einstein, Jonas Salk, Leonard Nemoy-, etc.

Leonard Nimoy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Nimoy

(Sorry, just nit-picking. )

Cheers,
TGHO

 

[gtc]

Leonard Nimoy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Nimoy

(Sorry, just nit-picking. )

Cheers,
TGHO

No, he was right the first time. Leonard Nemoy is the retired President of the Zionist Inter-National Conspiracy Organisation (ZINCO). He is a very succesful man and we should all be proud of his achievements*.



*Of course we can't tell you what he actually achieved and we shouldn't have mentioned that he even exists. Please report to your nearest FEMA Camp** for memory erasure.

**Yes Australia does have FEMA camps. No, we can't tell you where. You will find out soon enough.

 

[The Fool]

I've asked if you had ever been to Israel, parky76, and I'm still waiting to know.

In what way is it relevant?

 

[webfusion]

parky76 has posted several times about how he "envisions" Israel and each time he does so, it makes me wonder if he has actually been there, because his remarks often bear little resemblance to the realities of Israeli geography, Israeli politics, Israeli culture and Israeli life.

...to allow peace to finally take hold in this god forsaken place.

If there is one thing that Israelis who believe in god would agree on -- it's that the land is not god-forsaken.

 

[The Fool]

parky76 has posted several times about how he "envisions" Israel and each time he does so, it makes me wonder if he has actually been there, because his remarks often bear little resemblance to the realities of Israeli geography, Israeli politics, Israeli culture and Israeli life.

...to allow peace to finally take hold in this god forsaken place.

If there is one thing that Israelis who believe in god would agree on -- it's that the land is not god-forsaken.

Maybe what he says just doesn't resemble your vision? Its hard to tell for sure as I can't find anywhere Parky76 using the word "envision" or expressing views where having been or not been to Israel would be relevant.

It's not just the what would you know... you've never been there thingy....is it?

 

[a_unique_person]

**Yes Australia does have FEMA camps. No, we can't tell you where. You will find out soon enough.

I've been to it. That's why I don't remember where it is.

 

[steverino]

No, he was right the first time. Leonard Nemoy is the retired President of the Zionist Inter-National Conspiracy Organisation (ZINCO). He is a very succesful man and we should all be proud of his achievements*.

Yep. I meant him.

 

[webfusion]

Maybe what he says just doesn't resemble your vision? Its hard to tell for sure as I can't find anywhere Parky76 using the word "envision" or expressing views where having been or not been to Israel would be relevant.

OK, he expresses no views about his vision of Israel in this thread, that's true.

He did march in here with his "nothing positive" and "culture of victimhood" BS, and I was left, once again, wondering if he had ever been to Israel. It is a straightforward question, with no ulterior motive. I ask people I meet every day that exact question --- "Have you ever been to Israel?" and enjoy hearing their answers.

However, in regards to Parky76's vision ----- yes, he does "envision" peace based on things he says Israel should do and that type of pontification makes it seem to me that he has no direct knowledge of the country -- not the geography, not the sociology, not the attitudes in the streets, not even the day-to-day life in Jerusalem.

It's not just the what would you know... you've never been there thingy....is it?

Nope.

It's the do you have any evidence that what you say reflects the true-to-life situation in Israel?

By saying "All that matters is the reality of today..and we must deal with today" (direct quote from his OP in the other thread I linked to -- Peace Is Possible Between Israel/Palestine) parky76 comes across as being very much out of touch with the dynamics and the cultual biases of modern Israel.
In Israel, who would accept the basic idea he envisions --- to paraphrase --- 'Just disconnect from history, from the past.' ?

Of course, if parky76 has some way of showing us that Israelis in general are in any way prepared to jettison the past, and likewise so are the palestinians, he's welcome to bring forward that evidence. I'm skeptical.

 

[The Fool]

OK, he expresses no views about his vision of Israel in this thread, that's true.

He did march in here with his "nothing positive" and "culture of victimhood" BS, and I was left, once again, wondering if he had ever been to Israel. It is a straightforward question, with no ulterior motive. I ask people I meet every day that exact question --- "Have you ever been to Israel?" and enjoy hearing their answers.

However, in regards to Parky76's vision ----- yes, he does "envision" peace based on things he says Israel should do and that type of pontification makes it seem to me that he has no direct knowledge of the country -- not the geography, not the sociology, not the attitudes in the streets, not even the day-to-day life in Jerusalem.



Nope.

It's the do you have any evidence that what you say reflects the true-to-life situation in Israel?

By saying "All that matters is the reality of today..and we must deal with today" (direct quote from his OP in the other thread I linked to -- Peace Is Possible Between Israel/Palestine) parky76 comes across as being very much out of touch with the dynamics and the cultual biases of modern Israel.
In Israel, who would accept the basic idea he envisions --- to paraphrase --- 'Just disconnect from history, from the past.' ?

Of course, if parky76 has some way of showing us that Israelis in general are in any way prepared to jettison the past, and likewise so are the palestinians, he's welcome to bring forward that evidence. I'm skeptical.

seems to me you should be discussing your differing opinions without attempts to envoke the "never been to Israel" clause....which I have seen paraded around here from time to time. Often by Israeli Jews trying to stamp authority on non Israeli Jews...I'm not suggesting this was your motivation but the question seems to me to be patronising. We discuss and disagree over Iraq until our ears bleed and I don't think too many of us have ever been there..

 

[Mycroft]

seems to me you should be discussing your differing opinions without attempts to envoke the "never been to Israel" clause....

Why?

Some people have more experience with the subject than others. Discussing that seems perfectly appropriate to me.

 

[webfusion]

T-F responds:

I'm not suggesting this was your motivation but the question seems to me to be patronising.

You are indeed suggesting my motivation is to merely discredit his opinions, only because he has not had a first-hand look at Israel... you continue to want to impart upon me some sort of ulterior motive, although I've already replied clearly: I ask because I'm curious to see what he has to say.

Mycroft, have I asked you that same question? (Yes, I did.)

It so happens this is a four-page thread about ZIONISM, that has been running along quite nicely, in various directions, and there's been no need to inject the "have you been there, Charlie?" clause (as you put it) because indeed it's not relevent.
parky76, however, caught my attention with his brusque remark after I mentioned the Holocaust Day moment of silence across the entire State of Israel, and it made me wonder...

Let him answer, T-F, what harm can it do?