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zen

nowornever said:
The story entitled "Thirty birds"

Once upon a time there were 100 birds who wanted to find out what the truth is. They heard about a sage living on the peak of a mountain who knew what life was about. They flew. On the way 7o of them saw interesting things (a beautiful partner, a beautiful place, a beautiful job, a beautiful forum etc. etc.) and stayed there. The remaining 30 eventually got to the mountain peak and saw...but instead of seeing the sage to tell them what the truth was, they saw a big mirror in which they saw the thirty birds, themselves.
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Not a true story then.
 
ynot said:
Wouldn't it make even more sense to get up and travel around and experience life rather than merely observe it? It's possible to develope over-observation blindness (stare-crazy).
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Both methods have their pitfalls, when searching for fundamental reality you can either experience as much as possible and the common thread throughout your experience is the truth, obviously this method is more appealing but there is a tendency to get distracted.

Alternatively you can limit experience so that the only thing that is left must be the fundamental reality, not necessarily an attractive proposition and as you say is problematic.
 
Cowardly Egotistic Selfishness.

nowornever said:
The story entitled "Thirty birds"

Once upon a time there were 100 birds who wanted to find out what the truth is. They heard about a sage living on the peak of a mountain who knew what life was about. They flew. On the way 7o of them saw interesting things (a beautiful partner, a beautiful place, a beautiful job, a beautiful forum etc. etc.) and stayed there. The remaining 30 eventually got to the mountain peak and saw...but instead of seeing the sage to tell them what the truth was, they saw a big mirror in which they saw the thirty birds, themselves.
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Once upon a time.... long long ago....in the mist of time.... I wanted to design a perfect TRAP to catch birds. I "reasoned" that if I laid some seed next to a mirror then when they come to eat they would see themselves in the mirror and get too occupied with looking at themselves that I could then sneak up on them and trap them in a net. :p

The above story of yours implies that people who make a useful life for themselves by marrying and working and engaging people in useful exchange of ideas and labor did not find Truth.

In other words LIVING LIFE and being USEFUL to oneself and loved ones and friends and children and society....is not truth.

What the story seems to imply is that SELFISH EGOTISTIC GOOD FOR NOTHING AND NO ONE seekers after FUTILE PURSUITS are the only truth.

Well then..... this version of the "truth" can go ****** itself.

This version of "truth" is a good for nothing meaningless pointless aimless and utterly futile NOTHING.

I do not claim to know anything or have a handle on any truth..........BUT..... one "truth" I MYSELF know is that if anyone is trying to tell you that he knows what TRUTH is and he would let you in on THE SECRET if only you PAY ENOUGH then you are being INVEIGLED BY A HUCKSTER and the only “truth” you will find is that you were a FOOL.

Another "truth" I know is that Asceticism and IGNORING LIFE while seeking for "truth" is an act of COWARDLY EGOTISTIC SELFISHNESS.
 
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nowornever said:
The story entitled "Thirty birds"

Once upon a time there were 100 birds who wanted to find out what the truth is. They heard about a sage living on the peak of a mountain who knew what life was about. They flew. On the way 7o of them saw interesting things (a beautiful partner, a beautiful place, a beautiful job, a beautiful forum etc. etc.) and stayed there. The remaining 30 eventually got to the mountain peak and saw...but instead of seeing the sage to tell them what the truth was, they saw a big mirror in which they saw the thirty birds, themselves.
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"And they were happy ever after, spending all their time admiring themselves in the mirror, and making themselves unsufferable by telling how superior they were to everybody ..." :rolleyes:
 
ynot said:
How would I recognise an "enlightened being" to know that I was talking face to face with one? (assuming such a being actually exists)

Is the Dali lama an "enlightened being"?
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The Dali Lama! Spiritual leader by day, surrealist painter by night! Or maybe it's the other way around! Who can tell!
 
Leumas said:
Once upon a time.... long long ago....in the mist of time.... I wanted to design a perfect TRAP to catch birds. I "reasoned" that if I laid some seed next to a mirror then when they come to eat they would see themselves in the mirror and get too occupied with looking at themselves that I could then sneak up on them and trap them in a net. :p

The above story of yours implies that people who make a useful life for themselves by marrying and working and engaging people in useful exchange of ideas and labor did not find Truth.

In other words LIVING LIFE and being USEFUL to oneself and loved ones and friends and children and society....is not truth.

What the story seems to imply is that SELFISH EGOTISTIC GOOD FOR NOTHING AND NO ONE seekers after FUTILE PURSUITS are the only truth.

Well then..... this version of the "truth" can go ****** itself.

This version of "truth" is a good for nothing meaningless pointless aimless and utterly futile NOTHING.

I do not claim to know anything or have a handle on any truth..........BUT..... one "truth" I MYSELF know is that if anyone is trying to tell you that he knows what TRUTH is and he would let you in on THE SECRET if only you PAY ENOUGH then you are being INVEIGLED BY A HUCKSTER and the only “truth” you will find is that you were a FOOL.

Another "truth" I know is that Asceticism and IGNORING LIFE while seeking for "truth" is an act of COWARDLY EGOTISTIC SELFISHNESS.
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Yes, exactly. I used to say a long time ago (prepare for a bit of folk wisdom here!) that it's easy to be peaceful and at one with the universe when you're sitting in a mountain cave. It's when you come down and join the rest of humanity that things get messy.
 
Self-proclaimed “enlightened” people that spend their time navel gazing and telling others how to live their lives remind me of people that have never played a sport but stand on the sideline shouting at the players how they should play the game.
 
I asked my thirteen year old grandson the question - “What is the sound of one hand clapping” and he immediately replied - “Unicorn”. When I stopped laughing I thought that’s as good an answer as any I’ve heard. A while later he came back to me and made a clapping noise by quickly closing the fingers of one hand against the palm. He also said - “What about the sound of casinetts?”. Very enlightened is my grasshopper grandson.
 
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ynot said:
I asked my thirteen year old grandson the question - “What is the sound of one hand clapping” and he immediately replied - “Unicorn”. When I stopped laughing I thought that’s as good an answer as any I’ve heard. A while later he came back to me and made a clapping noise by quickly closing the fingers of one hand against the palm. He also said - “What about the sound of casinetts?”. Very enlightened is my grasshopper grandson.
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And he hasn't paid a cent to a scam for his illumination.
 
ynot said:
I asked my thirteen year old grandson the question - “What is the sound of one hand clapping” and he immediately replied - “Unicorn”. When I stopped laughing I thought that’s as good an answer as any I’ve heard. A while later he came back to me and made a clapping noise by quickly closing the fingers of one hand against the palm. He also said - “What about the sound of casinetts?”. Very enlightened is my grasshopper grandson.
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incorrect answers

Only zen teachers can check if a koan answer is right or wrong. I cannot check them as I am not an enlightened zen teacher.
 
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nowornever said:
The story entitled "Thirty birds"

Once upon a time there were 100 birds who wanted to find out what the truth is. They heard about a sage living on the peak of a mountain who knew what life was about. They flew. On the way 7o of them saw interesting things (a beautiful partner, a beautiful place, a beautiful job, a beautiful forum etc. etc.) and stayed there. The remaining 30 eventually got to the mountain peak and saw...but instead of seeing the sage to tell them what the truth was, they saw a big mirror in which they saw the thirty birds, themselves.
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And then the birds realized that they were in an inhospitable ugly wilderness, with no mates, no jobs, and no forums etc. etc. And because birds cannot eat a mirror or survive the cold of a mountain peak, they began to starve and freeze.

Which would have been fine, if all existence were an illusion that the 30 birds would have been fortunate to escape by death. But if existence were an illusion, the big mirror, being part of existence, would have had to be an illusion too, so the birds could not possibly have learned anything real by finding it and looking at it. If they learned something, that proves the mirror was real, and so what they learned was wrong. If they learned nothing, then they had wasted their time. Either way, they had passed up mates and jobs and beautiful places and forums, and were starving and freezing, for no reason.

Realizing this made the birds very angry. So they made a big slingshot and fired themselves at buildings to knock them down.

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
wisdom can come from stupidity

a stupid question:"On the 7th day of each month I sit an the table, on the 28th day of each month you can eat with me. What do these sentences mean?"

Correct, wise answer for this stupic question:
TODAY IS MONDAY
 
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