Yet more NLP BS

[Lothario]

Although i'm sure that Mystery would get laughed at and possibly killed in any night club where i live, i can see why some women would fall for the palm reading and those gimmicks they use. What i can't understand is how someone would fall for this (notice the embedded commands):

"You know the other day we were talking about how sometimes one can suddenly find themselves feeling really connected to someone.
Me, it happens rarely but when IT IS HAPPENING, I often find I wasn't aware of it until afterwards and you realize it was the start of something amazing. Something you'll always cherish for the rest of your life.
I mean sometimes a person can just be looking at someone and suddenly for whatever mysterious reason, feel a connection so powerfully taking place, a connection that just lets you know that this person is going to be really special in your life where you find yourself so easily imaging being with this person in that special way two people can be together who feel that growing attraction, but then sometimes you don't even NOTICE AND FEEL ITS TAKEN PLACE .. NOW WITH ME I find though that later when you LOOK BACK ON THE WONDERFUL, DELIGHTFUL THINGS THAT TOOK PLACE and suddenly you realize how ENCHANTED YOU FIND YOURSELF FEELING HMMMMM, its like you FALL UNDER A SPELL and you FEEL SWEPT OFF YOUR FEET and you loose your sense of time and space NOW, as if your ENTIRE WORLD IS THIS PERSON (IN FRONT OF YOU), like you're LOOKING/listening to your FUTURE as you just continue to LISTEN SO CAREFULLY.
And I think you may not FEEL THAT CONNECTION INSTANTEOUSLY, but even over short conversation like this one ... a person can find themselves starting to naturally realize that this person is someone who totally meets their criteria for someone you want to spend time with in that special way. In a way that makes you feel mmmm you know what I mean.
And you RECOGNIZE WITHOUT EVEN THINKING ABOUT IT that you really are looking forward to spending more time with this person and the more you allow yourself to feel this the more you begin to think of other things (point to yourself) that can be so delightful. And you begin to feel so safe and uninhibited so that you know its OK to just let yourself go and imagine having your fantasies really come true .. NOW WITH me thats how I sometimes SEE IT THAT WAY."

 

[MikeSun5]

Now imagine the above ^^ being spoken by this tall glass of water, or a sexy dreamboat like this guy.

mmmm... irresistable, am I right, ladies? They're simply oozing machismo.


Anyway, the "embedded commands" are the pickup artist equivalent of a magician's misdirection. I'm sure nobody falls for that stuff -- I think Lothario is right. The little cold reading magic tricks they do are a far better way to create interest, but embedded commands are ridiculous.
Example:
"Don't think of a motorcycle."
Did you just think of a motorcycle? I made you do that with NLP.
If you're under hypnosis, and you're open to suggestion because you want to feel a certain way, then I'll say maybe embedded commands might have some use (and I'm really stretching it here), but otherwise that stuff is as fake as magic.

Besides, if I'm charging you X amount of hard-earned cash to "teach" you how to manipulate women, I'm going to have a whole filing cabinet full of retarded scripts to hand out.

 

[JFrankA]

This one is my personal favourite: the Modern Jedi NLP Theme Song. Watch and sing along, folks!

That should've come with a warning, Lothario:

"You've watched it! You can't un-watched it!"

 

[JFrankA]

Now imagine the above ^^ being spoken by this tall glass of water, or a sexy dreamboat like this guy.

mmmm... irresistable, am I right, ladies? They're simply oozing machismo.


Anyway, the "embedded commands" are the pickup artist equivalent of a magician's misdirection. I'm sure nobody falls for that stuff -- I think Lothario is right. The little cold reading magic tricks they do are a far better way to create interest, but embedded commands are ridiculous.
Example:
"Don't think of a motorcycle."
Did you just think of a motorcycle? I made you do that with NLP.
If you're under hypnosis, and you're open to suggestion because you want to feel a certain way, then I'll say maybe embedded commands might have some use (and I'm really stretching it here), but otherwise that stuff is as fake as magic.

Besides, if I'm charging you X amount of hard-earned cash to "teach" you how to manipulate women, I'm going to have a whole filing cabinet full of retarded scripts to hand out.

That's what I've been saying all along. Very well put.

Here's one of the big secrets of performing stage magic and stage hypnosis. The audience is there because they want something "magical" to happen. When an audience shows up to be entertained, half my job is done.

And that applies to what Lothario has been saying all along about NLP and the picking up girls thing. You do the "techniques" to a whole bunch of women, eventually you're going to find one that likes the way you look, or is desperate, or just simply drunk enough to want it to work. It's a numbers game.

Hell, it's the same techniques cons use. And they play the numbers game too. They are very aware of who would make a good mark or not.

I've said it before: NLP and the magic of picking up girls is bunk. It's a numbers game mixed with the desire to believe and momentary confusion of the receiver.

 

[Maia]

There's one very good thing about all of this. It's inspired me to start working on a motion graphics project again. I used to do professional motion graphics and I've really missed it. I'd love to get back into it with a consumer program, just for fun... AfterFX, I think... Anyway, I really think I'm going to make a new (2 minute, or so) video which answers the existential question: "Should You Spend $500.00 on The Revelation?" (Hint: the answer is "no.") It'll be a parody of NLP programs, and I'll post the link once I put it up on Youtube.

 

[Lothario]

Now imagine the above ^^ being spoken by this tall glass of water, or a sexy dreamboat like this guy.

mmmm... irresistable, am I right, ladies? They're simply oozing machismo.

The funny thing is that it's not completely without happy customers. Like i've been saying, some people do believe that NLP is the reason behind their sucess stories.

Anyway, the "embedded commands" are the pickup artist equivalent of a magician's misdirection. I'm sure nobody falls for that stuff -- I think Lothario is right. The little cold reading magic tricks they do are a far better way to create interest, but embedded commands are ridiculous.
Example:
"Don't think of a motorcycle."
Did you just think of a motorcycle? I made you do that with NLP.
If you're under hypnosis, and you're open to suggestion because you want to feel a certain way, then I'll say maybe embedded commands might have some use (and I'm really stretching it here), but otherwise that stuff is as fake as magic.

There's also a sneaky "anchor" when he talks about "the person in front of you" and suggests you point at yourself. That, according to Jeffries, will associate yourself with the strong feelings the woman is going through as you recite the pattern.
IIRC from the psychology 101 classes i took in high school, this is taking Pavlov's conditioning study, dumbing it down A LOT and applying it just like that to human beings. 'Cause we all know how easy it is to manipulate people in comparison to dogs, right?

 

[JFrankA]

There's one very good thing about all of this. It's inspired me to start working on a motion graphics project again. I used to do professional motion graphics and I've really missed it. I'd love to get back into it with a consumer program, just for fun... AfterFX, I think... Anyway, I really think I'm going to make a new (2 minute, or so) video which answers the existential question: "Should You Spend $500.00 on The Revelation?" (Hint: the answer is "no.") It'll be a parody of NLP programs, and I'll post the link once I put it up on Youtube.

I am dying to see this! Maia, you are quickly becoming one of my favorite posters on this forum


....no that wasn't NLP......

 

[Maia]

In order for it to qualify as NLP, of course, you'd need one of these.

Oh,and don't miss this, whatever you do! I really think we need to get Ross Jeffries and Dr. Winnifred Cutler together.

 

[Eddie Dane]

In order for it to qualify as NLP, of course, you'd need one of these.

Oh,and don't miss this, whatever you do! I really think we need to get Ross Jeffries and Dr. Winnifred Cutler together.

Wow, that would be HAWT!

I'll bring my video camera.

ETA: We could use the song Modern Jedi as the soundtrack!

 

[Ashles]

Hey!

Long time no speak. How we all doing ? made any progress ?

I'm still interested in reading that script you promised us.

 

[Maia]

I've got one. Kind of inspired by that 1980’s Mr. Subliminal character on SNL.

(The Setting: A unsuspecting woman is walking into a Whole Foods in the early evening after an aerobox class, just across from a YMCA.)

UW:I wonder if there’s any of that quintuple Tortuous Death by Chocolate Cake left.

(Suddenly, an NLP True Believer jumps out from behind a bush and blocks her path.)

NLP TB: Heather! Brianna… Jessica… Brooke… well, whatever. Anyway. You’re the one I’ve been waiting for all my life! (He wears a scuba mask, flippers, a joker hat with jingle bells on the ends similar to the ones sold at RenFests, a raccoon jacket, plaid bellbottoms, and eight-inch platform shoes with goldfish in the plexiglass heels, and carries a pimp cane that looks just like Lucius Malfoy's.) You know, sometimes you just feel the most amazing spiritual connection, and you can just tell that YOU WANT TO ASK ME BACK TO YOUR PLACE AND--

Unsuspecting Woman: (looking around nervously) Um—
NLP TB: We could have the most special, amazing, spiritual connection, and then you’ll GIVE ME ALL YOUR MONEY—

UW: (backing away slowly) The police never seem to be around when you really need them…

NLP TB: We could chase puppies together, hold hands while we stroll into the sunset, have long, meaningful conversations where we gaze deeply into each other’s eyes and then you TWIRL ROUND AND ROUND ON THAT STRIPPER POLE LIKE A LOLLIPOP--

UW: (digs in purse) Where’s that mace I had…

NLP TB: (dangles an authentic 1950’s ordered-from-the-back-of-a-Superman-comic-book hypnocoin in front of UW’s face) Wait! This always works! You are getting sleepier and sleepier, more and more relaxed with each passing moment… you will obey all my commands… you will start walking around with your arms stretched straight out in front of you like an escapee from an MST3K zombie flick any second now… (looks up hopefully) So, do you want to have sex yet?

(Just then, a large white van pulls up and comes to a screeching halt. Several large, burly men jump out, quickly wrestle NLP TB to the ground, and get the straightjacket on.)

Psychiatric Orderly: Sorry about that, miss. We just can’t seem to keep him in the high-security ward.

NLP TB: Dang! How did they find me so fast this time?!

(The van pulls away.)

UW: Hmmm…. Something tells me that either I was saved by the hand of Providence, or someone invented an experimental GPS tracer based on DNA and instantaneously rewired it to match that nutball and relay the signal to the state psychiatric hospital.

Helpful Geek (currently working on his PhD in astrophysics and the mysterious subatomic particles found only in fried SPAM—he’s been hovering on the sidelines): The second option, pretty much.

UW: My hero!

HG: Here’s the last piece of chocolate cake. I saved it for you (hands it to her).

UW: Have the outermost fields of quantum physics fused with psychic mindreading abilities?

HG: No. I overheard you verbalizing your innermost thoughts, that’s all.

UW: You know, this could be the beginning of a beautiful friendship.

 

[Lothario]

I forgot to mention earlier than the Modern Jedi NLP song is supposed to contain some NLP language patterns. Did anyone feel different? I felt dumber, but i'm not sure that counts.

 

[Eddie Dane]

The outfit thing:

Now that several pictures have been posted of Mystery and his hangers-on, it perhaps useful that I give some background to their outrageous outfits.

Mystery is a magician who incorporates quite al lot of evolutionary psychology in his methods. I don't know if he really believes in these rationalisations or if they are a form of misdirection.

Anyway: The theory behind the weirdo clothing is called peackocking. As you may have guessed from the name, they think that certain animals make sure they get noticed.
The correct explanation must of course be that some animals show their genetic superiority by diverting nutrition towards feathers and such. Animals that have such a surplus and can also survive despite being much more visible to predators, are obviously strong and very popular with the ladies.

Mystery's "peackocking" theory basically states that you have to make yourself the centre of attention. you can't pick anyone up if nobody notices you.

As you can tell, this challenge is bulldozed out of the way in a remarkably unsubtle manner.

Again, this is a method that I suspect will not work outside certain clubs.

 

[Senex]

I am dying to see this! Maia, you are quickly becoming one of my favorite posters on this forum

I've got one. Kind of inspired by that 1980’s Mr. Subliminal character on SNL.

(The Setting: A unsuspecting woman is walking into a Whole Foods in the early evening after an aerobox class, just across from a YMCA.)

NLP TB: We could chase puppies together, hold hands while we stroll into the sunset, have long, meaningful conversations where we gaze deeply into each other’s eyes and then you TWIRL ROUND AND ROUND ON THAT STRIPPER POLE LIKE A LOLLIPOP--

Don't think you are invulnerable to NLP young lady. Senex is very masculine.

 

[Lothario]

Mystery is a magician who incorporates quite al lot of evolutionary psychology in his methods.

I would like to know how much of this evolutionary psychology they claim to use is real and how much of it is bogus.

 

[Maia]

I would like to know how much of this evolutionary psychology they claim to use is real and how much of it is bogus.

As we all know, Mystery received his PhD in clinical psychology from Columbia in 2002. He did his post-doctoral work with the prestigious Cambridge Health Alliance at Harvard and has since published many scholarly research papers on the subject of evolutionary psychology in the Journal of Neuroscience and Behavioral Reviews, and--

(Zoooooooommm--- hold on---)

We have now returned from Bizarro Universe.

Anyway, it's basically all bogus. I do know more about the subject than Mystery does, which is NOT saying a lot, and a.) he takes a few ideas he doesn't understand and throws them around in a meaningless way b.) nobody knows if it actually has anything to do with human behavior and c.) in animal behavior, "peacocking" actually is observed at least as often in the context of male displays designed to attract the same sex. Yep, gay peacocks are everywhere. I don't think this is exactly what Mystery is trying to sell.

But, you know, this is a fascinating topic jump up and down eighteen times and yell 'ole'!. Yes, it really does get the mind working convert to flying spaghetti monster worship. One can only imagine what amazing wonders the frontiers of NLP will open next, and where it will lead the human mind "hand over ALL the Chocolate Death Cake IMMEDIATELY and nobody gets hurt!!!

 

[remirol]

b.) nobody knows if it actually has anything to do with human behavior

Isn't evolutionary psychology still effectively 'experimental' -- ie. the EPs are basically doing a lot of observing of inherited behavior and characteristics and doing a lot of speculating about how the observations may be related?

 

[Lothario]

As we all know, Mystery received his PhD in clinical psychology from Columbia in 2002. He did his post-doctoral work with the prestigious Cambridge Health Alliance at Harvard and has since published many scholarly research papers on the subject of evolutionary psychology in the Journal of Neuroscience and Behavioral Reviews, and--

(Zoooooooommm--- hold on---)

We have now returned from Bizarro Universe.

Anyway, it's basically all bogus. I do know more about the subject than Mystery does, which is NOT saying a lot, and a.) he takes a few ideas he doesn't understand and throws them around in a meaningless way b.) nobody knows if it actually has anything to do with human behavior and c.) in animal behavior, "peacocking" actually is observed at least as often in the context of male displays designed to attract the same sex. Yep, gay peacocks are everywhere. I don't think this is exactly what Mystery is trying to sell.

LOL!

To be fair with Mystery, a few concepts that he throws around do have scientific credibility. For instance, i've seen studies that confirm "social proof" (if you arrive at the club with two beautiful women, other women will find you more attractive than they would if you were to arrive alone). "Kino" also seems to have some merit. I heard about an experiment where this guy would go around asking people favors and his sucess rate increased whenever he lightly touched them.

P.S. Olé!

 

[Maia]

Now, you have to understand that an expert in this area I am not. However, I do a lot of research in other and highly unrelated areas. So I took a brief look to see what I could come up with. All I can say is that Psychinfo, Pubmed, and Pubmed Central were singularly unhelpful. Scholarly studies don't tend to be formulated in such a way as to ask questions like "If you show up at a club dressed like a reject from a puppet show of Pirates of the Caribbean with two skanks already on your arm, will other women find you more attractive?" It's more likely to be something along the lines of:

D.G Biron, L Marché, F Ponton, H.D Loxdale, N Galéotti, L Renault, C Joly, and F Thomas. (2005). Behavioural manipulation in a grasshopper harbouring hairworm: a proteomics approach. Processes in Biological Sciences,272(1577), 2117–2126.

In relation to human beings, you might get studies theorizing about the reasons why bystanders tend to be friendly to recipients of aggression, or how social conflict models can inform us about models of psychopathology, or how psychopathology in great apes might relate to human mental disorders. So I didn't have any luck finding that study, although I don't have any doubt that somebody did do it somewhere. I'd be interested for sure in seeing it if you can remember where it was, Lothario. (Would you like some salsa?)

But again, as others have pointed out too, it depends on who you're trying to attract. I don't personally know anyone (of the female gender, I mean) who would be more rather than less interested in some guy who showed up with two women already hanging off of him, not to mention the pirate ripoff/weird hat/scuba mask/pimp cane thing. Especially if it involved an event held at the library.

 

[JFrankA]

LOL!

To be fair with Mystery, a few concepts that he throws around do have scientific credibility. For instance, i've seen studies that confirm "social proof" (if you arrive at the club with two beautiful women, other women will find you more attractive than they would if you were to arrive alone).

I've heard that too, but I'd like to actually see the study of it. From anedotal experience, if you bring a woman to a strip club with female strippers, the strippers will hang around longer...

But as to making a man more attractive because he has a "wing-girl" hanging on him, I'd really like to see a serious study done on that.

"Kino" also seems to have some merit. I heard about an experiment where this guy would go around asking people favors and his sucess rate increased whenever he lightly touched them.

P.S. Olé!

I have heard (not read the evidence), that simply giving a reason for a favor increases the chances of people granting favors over just simply asking. So perhaps, just adding anything to the "can you do me a favor" question would cause an increase.

I still of the opinion that this whole thing is nothing more than simple psychological tricks that you can learn by studying stage magic. There are ways to momentarily distract the "critical thinking" of a person. Note the word I used: "distract". It's nothing more than that. Any "sustaining of distraction from critical thinking" is up to the desire of the recipient.

What these people are doing is taking basic, simple techinques and blowing them up into a miracle. Just doesn't work that way.