Yet more NLP BS

JFrankA said:
Again, quite right. I do the invisible thing a lot. One thing that helps it along is to not be in site of the person who is not seeing you. :)

For example, I have one routine where there are three chairs on stage. I have a guy sitting in the middle and two women on the side. The guy's chair is slightly more forward than the other two, and the women can reach out to touch each other and the guy. I also command that they don't get out of the chair.

Then I make the suggestion that the guy can't see the girls, but he can hear
and feel them. One girl gets slowly more and more aroused as the routine continues, while the other girl gets aroused at the word "slut" and completely against sex at the word "prude".

Then I let them go. The audience calls out the words and it's hilarious. And every time, the guy says he never sees the girls.

The point is that it's not only a "command", it's a magician's technique, helping the command along. :)

You know, I'm giving away secrets here that if I put it in a book or a DVD I could sell it at $30 a pop or something.....



I'd love to have you in the audience. :) But I perform only adult shows - X rated - R rated at the very least. And usually at swing parties.

...so I already have a very willing audience and women willing to get naked. :)
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Wow, you have a great niche. Your participants come to the show with being naughty already in their mind. Your performance may only be limited by your imagination. I guess my moonwalk will only slow the show down :rolleyes:

I have had adventerous sexual partners but none who swing (but I never asked). I have no one to take to your performance.
 
Senex said:
Wow, you have a great niche. Your participants come to the show with being naughty already in their mind. Your performance may only be limited by your imagination. I guess my moonwalk will only slow the show down :rolleyes:
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Nah, it wouldn't maybe I should add an MJ thing. :)

Anyway, that's the point I was trying to make. My audience WANTS these things to happen. And here's the point as to why NLP and hypnosis doesn't work beyond what people want:

If I did a G-rated show in that environment, the hypnosis wouldn't go over well. And on the flip side, if I did my show for, let's say a church group, the hypnosis wouldn't work at all! :)

If NLP and hypnosis did work the way those huskers says it does, then the audience's attitude wouldn't matter at all...

I have had adventerous sexual partners but none who swing (but I never asked). I have no one to take to your performance.
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Dude, no lie, having a girlfriend who loves to swing is the best. I have the greatest girlfriend in the universe. :)
 
JFrankA said:
Nah, it wouldn't maybe I should add an MJ thing. :)
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Oh yes, my moonwalking against topless women. I can't wait to compete :rolleyes:
Anyway, that's the point I was trying to make. My audience WANTS these things to happen. And here's the point as to why NLP and hypnosis doesn't work beyond what people want:

If I did a G-rated show in that environment, the hypnosis wouldn't go over well. And on the flip side, if I did my show for, let's say a church group, the hypnosis wouldn't work at all! :)

If NLP and hypnosis did work the way those huskers says it does, then the audience's attitude wouldn't matter at all...
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I think I need to drive 25 minutes up I-84 and see this show and offer an unbiased opinion.
Dude, no lie, having a girlfriend who loves to swing is the best. I have the greatest girlfriend in the universe. :)
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I never felt I had the greatest girlfriend until I thought about her in retrospect. I look forward to meeting yours ;)
 
I posted that knol link in one of the forums where i started asking about NLP. So far, i was surprised to see that a few people actually agreed with me. I'll let you guys know how it goes.
 
Only 14 replies and 200 views so far. Pro-NLP and Ross Jeffries' threads get a lot more attention than that. Surprisingly, two posters agreed with me. The rest presented the usual arguments (e.g. NLP can cure you in one session when years of regular therapy can't, NLP is goal oriented, it just does what works, etc). I was referred to a book by one Andrew Austin where he talks about his results using NLP on patients suffering from schizophrenia.
Nobody could present any real evidence that it works beyond placebo effect. Still, people seem more than willing to buy it.
 
Hmm... what plausible explanation can we come up with for these alleged pick-up/sales sucess stories? Pure coincidence?

This reminds me of a Dave Chappelle sketch called "Great moments in pick-up history". Hilarious.
 
remirol said:
"Staged".
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Then how do some people perceive that it works? Take IKE, for instance. I don't think he was lying. He wasn't exactly going to convert new NLPers in this forum.

Ross Jeffries has been teaching these seminars since the 90's. They fill up for like 1500$ a pop. I've read one of his books and while these "patterns" have some elements that are more or less plausible (describe an emotional state and the girl will experience it, talk slowly, pause frequently to get her attention, etc), for the most part they are extremely creepy and full of these embedded commands and little "subliminal influence" wooish tricks.

Despite all the creepiness, i still run into random people who claim that "Speed Seduction works and is extremely powerful" and this guy is still in business after all these years.

Either a lot of otherwise intelligent people are insane, or i am.
 
Lothario said:
Then how do some people perceive that it works? Take IKE, for instance. I don't think he was lying. He wasn't exactly going to convert new NLPers in this forum.
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Because he wanted it to and he believed it would. Humans are really very good at finding cause and effect when there isn't a connection. To be a little more clear, he believed it to work so that every success he had he credited it to NLP, but ignored the failures or had an excuse why it didn't work.

Ross Jeffries has been teaching these seminars since the 90's. They fill up for like 1500$ a pop. I've read one of his books and while these "patterns" have some elements that are more or less plausible (describe an emotional state and the girl will experience it, talk slowly, pause frequently to get her attention, etc), for the most part they are extremely creepy and full of these embedded commands and little "subliminal influence" wooish tricks.
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Either Ross really believes it too, or he knows it doesn't and wants the cash. Or a strange combination of the two.

And again, see above. But let me put it to you this way. If you were a rich successful businessman/speaker, with a lot of money and confidence, wouldn't you have better luck with the ladies even if the advice you were doling out at $1500/pop was to put tuna fish sandwiches under your armpits when you go to bed?

Despite all the creepiness, i still run into random people who claim that "Speed Seduction works and is extremely powerful" and this guy is still in business after all these years.
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*Sigh* See above. :)

Either a lot of otherwise intelligent people are insane, or i am.
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No, no insanity involved. Just a willingness or a desperation or a gullibleness (if that is a word), or a strange combination of all three to believe that something like that would work.

A lot of intelligent, sane people believe that talking to some dead guy who was nailed to tree over 2000 years ago would cure a person who has cancer. Why not NLP and speed seduction?

Hey, I bet I can even market the advice of putting a tuna fish sandwich under your arms before you go to bed and people will buy it and swear by it :D
 
Lothario said:
Then how do some people perceive that it works? Take IKE, for instance. I don't think he was lying.
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Because not all people think rationally. And some people don't even realize they aren't thinking rationally.

Very few people even consciously realize what I mentioned above, for example, with regard to the camera's presence for filming these shots. That doesn't mean there isn't a cameraman there; it means that people watch these Youtube videos and are fooled into thinking that the only people present are Jeffries, the people around him, and his victims. But that simply isn't true -- and once you fully realize that truth, the next question must be "why aren't these people asking what the camera's for? why don't they even stop to look at it?"

The correct answer here is "because they already know what the camera's for" -- and if they know that, then they must have been spoken to before the actual time period that was filmed. And if that is true, then the film is clearly staged at least in part -- and very likely in total.

Either a lot of otherwise intelligent people are insane, or i am.
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Insane isn't the right word, but irrational would be.
 
JFrankA said:
A lot of intelligent, sane people believe that talking to some dead guy who was nailed to tree over 2000 years ago would cure a person who has cancer. Why not NLP and speed seduction?
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Why not indeed? It happens every day.

remirol said:
Because not all people think rationally. And some people don't even realize they aren't thinking rationally.

Very few people even consciously realize what I mentioned above, for example, with regard to the camera's presence for filming these shots.

The correct answer here is "because they already know what the camera's for" -- and if they know that, then they must have been spoken to before the actual time period that was filmed. And if that is true, then the film is clearly staged at least in part -- and very likely in total.

Insane isn't the right word, but irrational would be.
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You're right up to the part about what the right word would be.

What is a word for people who want their (some at any cost) time in the spotlight.
 
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JFrankA said:
I'd love to have you in the audience. :) But I perform only adult shows - X rated - R rated at the very least. And usually at swing parties.

...so I already have a very willing audience and women willing to get naked. :)
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JFrankA said:
Hey, don't knock exhibitionists!!!! They are the bread and butter of my act!!!! :)
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And what a great show it must be! ;)
 
This one is funny. I found a website that mentions a study that showed that NLP can make you less persuasive.

"This study compared NLP techniques such as pacing, metaphor, and phonemic devices to two much simpler non-NLP control conditions: a direct-information condition and a placebic information-only condition. No differences in attitudes were found among the conditions, but the non-NLP direct-information control condition demonstrated significantly more persuasion in behavioral measures, resulting in the opposite of what NLP practitioners would predict."

-- Dixon, PN; Parr GD; Yarbrough D; and Rathael M. (1986). Neurolinguistic Programming as a Persuasive Communication Technique. The Journal of Social Psychology, 126(4), 545-550.

Oh, and i was just reading Ross Jeffries' blog and he posted an e-mail adress you can write to if you want to go pick-up chicks with him. That would be interesting.
 
Lothario said:
Oh, and i was just reading Ross Jeffries' blog and he posted an e-mail adress you can write to if you want to go pick-up chicks with him. That would be interesting.
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There is no way in hell Ross would let me go with him as a either an ostensibly-impartial observer, or even as an adversarial observer who promised to not interfere. He's only interested in creating more positive testimonials, not an actual review of what's occurring. :)
 
remirol said:
There is no way in hell Ross would let me go with him as a either an ostensibly-impartial observer, or even as an adversarial observer who promised to not interfere. He's only interested in creating more positive testimonials, not an actual review of what's occurring. :)
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You should try. I'm sure he'd love a skeptic view of his work :)
 
remirol said:
There is no way in hell Ross would let me go with him as a either an ostensibly-impartial observer, or even as an adversarial observer who promised to not interfere. He's only interested in creating more positive testimonials, not an actual review of what's occurring. :)
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You know... maybe I should go in. I mean, I do stage hypnosis. I can sing praises that this stuff works because I use it in my show, and then reveal that it's all hogwash.... I could be a SPY! :D
 
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