Yet more NLP BS

Lothario, these last two things have something in common:

They are people who are trying to con others. Look, it's the same thing over and over, confuse someone enough so that they are open to a suggestion. Confusion can happen a myriad of different ways and once someone is confused, you can slip in a suggestion and the person will more likely follow it. (and notice the words I used: "more likely" - even that isn't guaranteed.)

But this is a quick and very temporary thing. What is complete bullpucky, as it was stated before in this thread but I can't find who said it, is the belief that one can actually, completely and permanently mind-control someone else through the use of words and voice inflection to the point of getting that person to do something that they clearly wouldn't want to do.

Again, this is the key: it's a thing that works a little but no more. You may be able to con someone out of a hundred dollars, but that same person you've conned is going to a) eventually realize that they have been conned and b) not trust you ever again c) won't be fooled by you.

And there is no way in hell that you can use NLP or hypnosis to get a woman who has decided that she wouldn't go to bed with you if you were the last man on Earth in bed with you.
 
remirol said:
What's different about anything he's doing from all the other con artists trying to peddle their woo?
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Some very impressive routines. Unless they're fake, it does seem like he hypnotized the man using the fabled ericksonian handshake. But then again i don't know much about the subject. That's why i ask.
 
Lothario said:
Some very impressive routines. Unless they're fake, it does seem like he hypnotized the man using the fabled ericksonian handshake. But then again i don't know much about the subject. That's why i ask.
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Well, the point is -- anyone can make a Youtube video and it has absolutely no bearing on whether or not the subject of the video is true. What did you _really_ see, when you look at it without the lenses of what-you-want-to-see there? In other words, what were the actions that took place?

The video creator wants you to _believe_ certain things are happening. But take his claims out of it for a second -- what's actually happening? Anything different than the other woo peddlers out there?
 
Here's another way to put it.

Hypnosis is a card trick. Once you know some basic sleights and moves, you can produce what seems to be a miracle right before people's eyes. That's because you are fooling them.

Hypnosis is like that. It's the same moves, the same confusion techniques, the same way of playing off a spectator's desire in order to achieve the effect that the hypnotist is going for but dressing it up differently.
 
Lothario said:
What about this guy?

http://www.anthonyjacquin.com/products.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiWIe2DGJl4

He claims to be using the "handshake interrupt" we spoke about.
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That guy is full of woo. If he really could do what he says his book teaches...

Is it possible to walk into a shop and leave with
any goods you choose without paying?


Is it possible to become 'invisible'?


Is it possible to pay people with blank paper
rather than cash?


Is it possible to make people collapse with laughter
on your command?


Can you get free drinks by convincing bar staff
you are a superstar?

The answer to all of these questions and many more is YES. The techniques in this book will show you how


... then why does he offer his services as a traditional hypnotist for parties? He could be a world class thief or teacher of creepy voyeurs who want to be invisible in the women's locker room.

You can't handshake interupt a stranger into going into a hypnotic trance.

This is true about stage hypnosis - you can watch one and recreate what they do just by mimicking them, unlike you can with a magician who does have secret stuff you don't see. The only thing a hypnotist might do you are unaware of is whispering to a subject or having a stooge or two as a subject to help uninhibit the other subjects (just like a well run wet T-shirt contest does ;))

Stage hypnotists don't pay for their appliances with blank paper or drink for free when not performing. They would if they could - but they can't and neither will you even if you buy that guy's book.
 
Senex said:
...the book Influence by Cialdini is the best resource I have come across.
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Hi Senex, thanks for the recommendation. I just popped off to put it on my Amazon wish list but noticed it looks like there are two:
Influence: Psychology of Persuasion and
Influence: Science and Practice

Do you know if S&P is a sequel or a newer edition with a different subtitle?

BDd
 
Lothario said:
:rolleyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPZH07THejo

Here it is. People commenting are saying that DB has hypnotized the guy before.

Of course, he does the usual NLP subliminal influence "you will stop seeing me" kind of thing for misdirection.

I wish i knew how he does these tricks.
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You should understand that people who know they are part of an entertainment react differently than your unsuspecting 7-11 clerk would. Stage hypnotists (and famous mentalists with a camera crew) take advantage of their subjects choosing to play a role that they normally do not play. I've seen the Amazing Kreskin (who makes a point of saying that there is no such thing as hypnotism, he just calls it suggestion) scatter groups of spectators off the stage by suggesting he is invisible to them and he then lifts the microphone stand. Derren isn't breaking any new ground here.

BartiDdu said:
Hi Senex, thanks for the recommendation. I just popped off to put it on my Amazon wish list but noticed it looks like there are two:
Influence: Psychology of Persuasion and
Influence: Science and Practice

Do you know if S&P is a sequel or a newer edition with a different subtitle?

BDd
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I read Psychology of Persuasion. From wiki it looks like Science and Practice is a textbook version of the former. No point in paying extra for questions at the end of the chapters.

It's an excellent book. It won't make you a mentalist or help you pick up girls (unless you are creative). It will help you develop a radar to detect manipulation techniques aimed at you.
 
Senex said:
You should understand that people who know they are part of an entertainment react differently than your unsuspecting 7-11 clerk would. Stage hypnotists (and famous mentalists with a camera crew) take advantage of their subjects choosing to play a role that they normally do not play. I've seen the Amazing Kreskin (who makes a point of saying that there is no such thing as hypnotism, he just calls it suggestion) scatter groups of spectators off the stage by suggesting he is invisible to them and he then lifts the microphone stand. Derren isn't breaking any new ground here.
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I watched a stage hypnosis show once, when i was a kid. The hypnotist had a couple of my friends on stage acting like complete idiots. At the time, i was quite impressed. They didn't remember anything afterwards.
I know we are not allowed to reveal tricks here, but how does one "suggest" he is invisible? There has to be some sort of formal induction, right? Otherwise we could all go around using these Jedi mind tricks like some NLP'ers suggest. "These are not the droids you're looking for".
 
Lothario said:
I watched a stage hypnosis show once, when i was a kid. The hypnotist had a couple of my friends on stage acting like complete idiots. At the time, i was quite impressed. They didn't remember anything afterwards.
I know we are not allowed to reveal tricks here, but how does one "suggest" he is invisible? There has to be some sort of formal induction, right? Otherwise we could all go around using these Jedi mind tricks like some NLP'ers suggest. "These are not the droids you're looking for".
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Well, as I and most everyone here has been saying all along, stage hypnosis is just a trick. Sometimes the person just plays along, sometimes the person believes it or is confused so much that they actually do follow the suggestion given by the stage hypnosis. Senex pretty much hit it on the head with his last post.
 
Lothario said:
I watched a stage hypnosis show once, when i was a kid. The hypnotist had a couple of my friends on stage acting like complete idiots. At the time, i was quite impressed. They didn't remember anything afterwards.
I know we are not allowed to reveal tricks here, but how does one "suggest" he is invisible? There has to be some sort of formal induction, right? Otherwise we could all go around using these Jedi mind tricks like some NLP'ers suggest. "These are not the droids you're looking for".
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Having the "suggestion" you wouldn't remember anything afterwards makes it easier to lower your inhibitions during your hypnotic performance. You don't have to answer any embarrassing questions after. If you provided sufficient motivation I suspect perfect recollection would be available from your friends.

If you wish to become "invisible" to anyone you will need to perform some sort of formal induction in front of an audience. The heroic Milton Erickson couldn't perform an "I'm invisible" routine unless his patient felt accepting such a bizarre suggestion was in his own best interest or felt a need to please the wise doctor.


JFrankA said:
Well, as I and most everyone here has been saying all along, stage hypnosis is just a trick. Sometimes the person just plays along, sometimes the person believes it or is confused so much that they actually do follow the suggestion given by the stage hypnosis. Senex pretty much hit it on the head with his last post.
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I'd enjoy watching you perform. In fact although I've never aspired to be a stooge, I know darn well I'd be a brilliant one. Let me perfect my moonwalk and I'll go on stage and do my Michael Jackson routine (at your suggestion of course :D )
 
Senex said:
Having the "suggestion" you wouldn't remember anything afterwards makes it easier to lower your inhibitions during your hypnotic performance. You don't have to answer any embarrassing questions after. If you provided sufficient motivation I suspect perfect recollection would be available from your friends.

If you wish to become "invisible" to anyone you will need to perform some sort of formal induction in front of an audience. The heroic Milton Erickson couldn't perform an "I'm invisible" routine unless his patient felt accepting such a bizarre suggestion was in his own best interest or felt a need to please the wise doctor.
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Again, quite right. I do the invisible thing a lot. One thing that helps it along is to not be in site of the person who is not seeing you. :)

For example, I have one routine where there are three chairs on stage. I have a guy sitting in the middle and two women on the side. The guy's chair is slightly more forward than the other two, and the women can reach out to touch each other and the guy. I also command that they don't get out of the chair.

Then I make the suggestion that the guy can't see the girls, but he can hear
and feel them. One girl gets slowly more and more aroused as the routine continues, while the other girl gets aroused at the word "slut" and completely against sex at the word "prude".

Then I let them go. The audience calls out the words and it's hilarious. And every time, the guy says he never sees the girls.

The point is that it's not only a "command", it's a magician's technique, helping the command along. :)

You know, I'm giving away secrets here that if I put it in a book or a DVD I could sell it at $30 a pop or something.....

I'd enjoy watching you perform. In fact although I've never aspired to be a stooge, I know darn well I'd be a brilliant one. Let me perfect my moonwalk and I'll go on stage and do my Michael Jackson routine (at your suggestion of course :D )
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I'd love to have you in the audience. :) But I perform only adult shows - X rated - R rated at the very least. And usually at swing parties.

...so I already have a very willing audience and women willing to get naked. :)
 
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