Yellow Bamboo Challenge

[Flo]

Argh - I cannot believe that I'm going to actually write something that supports YB in any way whatsoever... but I guess I'm going to have to point something out.

Prior to the invention of firearms, people did charge each other from far apart to engage in hand-to-hand combat. (In fact, if you think about it, non-throwing spears and other weapons were designed as stand-off weapons to keep charging attackers at a safe distance.)

Granted, we're not talking "one-on-one" as in martial artists dueling - but a lot of the basic martial arts taught to soldiers in China pre-firearms (if they were lucky to even GET training) had to do with dealing with charging opponents. Special weapons were even developed for that purpose, such as the "horse cutters", etc.

That's what I had in mind when I mentionned "one on one" fighting. I know that foot soldiers were trained to rush at each others from some distance, mostly because they were NOT trained properly in the manipulation of whatever weapon they were using, and because most of them were not warriors to begin with and therefore needed being psyched up. Nothing like a good run to stop you from thinking about the guy in front of you ready to slice you in two

There are also a number of attacks (noteably kicks) that involve running forward rapidly. (Not from 20 meters away, obviously, but you might have to run to the battle to get close enough to use the attack.)

There is a huge difference between running a few meters in order to be at the right distance before your opponent gets a chance to be at his preferred distance, and running a distance sufficient to let you out of breath while your opponent is calmly waiting.

I feel pretty safe in saying that at least some martial arts training involved crossing distances rapidly to engage the enemy effectively.

Might be, but not "getting angry and rushing at your opponent who's quietly waiting for your attack"

 

[Flo]

I stick(!) to yelling and stamping my foot. Books are more liberating to me.

Books (dictionaries are best) are very effective for hitting people on the head. You stun them and some of the knowledge within is supposed to get through their skull, I've been told

Nope: The attacker can stop right before the YB person and focus, before he punches. But, let's see what the attacker says.

As an attacker, I'd say that on top of distracting you, and making you vulnerable to a trick, it will make you out of breath and less able to hit effectively.

 

[Flo]

Claus who actually issued the challenge to YB in the first place has pussied out and is putting a martial artist in his place.

BWM

Speaking of pussying out, when do we see yellow bamboozled crashing a dojo owned by a real fighter like Gracie, without asking for special conditions beforehand, instead of issuing biased challenges to guys without training in combat sports ?

 

[baliwesternman]

Speaking of pussying out, when do we see yellow bamboozled crashing a dojo owned by a real fighter like Gracie, without asking for special conditions beforehand, instead of issuing biased challenges to guys without training in combat sports ?

Actually Claus issued the challenge to YB

As to you other question- I would say after the claus peter
smackdown if peter is successful it would be only a matter of time before that happens

BWM

 

[CFLarsen]

baliwesternman,

Will you in any way be involved with this experiment?

 

[Flo]

As to you other question- I would say after the claus peter
smackdown if peter is successful it would be only a matter of time before that happens

BWM

Given the fact that you, or other practitionners of YB, pretend they have successfully tested their method and should have won the JREF challenge, why hasn't it already happened ?

 

[Ravenwood]

Actually Claus issued the challenge to YB

As to you other question- I would say after the claus peter
smackdown if peter is successful it would be only a matter of time before that happens

BWM

So how long before YB tries the simmunition test? Anytime you want to come to Maui, I will be happy to aid in the testing (in fact, I have 40 rounds of 9mm Simmunition that I would be willing to donate for the "test")

 

[steenkh]

I know that foot soldiers were trained to rush at each others from some distance, mostly because they were NOT trained properly in the manipulation of whatever weapon they were using, and because most of them were not warriors to begin with and therefore needed being psyched up. Nothing like a good run to stop you from thinking about the guy in front of you ready to slice you in two

Soldiers have several reasons to rush. The most important is the presence of missile weapons, where the rush limits the time they are exposed to these weapons.

Another reason is that if you are attacking a guy who is carrying a shield, it often develops into a shoving match - do not forget that most fights were in packed formations. The momentum that the rush can impart, could possibly topple the first opponent.

Another reason is that is more frightening to be attacked by somebody rushing at you, and morale is one of the most important factors in hand-to-hand combat. More often than not, the enemy would break even before the first blow. It is probably this last respect you were thinking of, Flo: if the troops are trained well, they are not frightened so much by a running charge.

 

[Flo]

It is probably this last respect you were thinking of, Flo: if the troops are trained well, they are not frightened so much by a running charge.

True, especially if said charge comes from untrained or badly trained attackers.

 

[Harlequin]

So now it seems that, not only does this power require the attacker to be angry, off balance, in the dark, surrounded by people in yellow shirts and enrolled in the society, NOW it's specific to their identity?

All cower at the might of the Yellow Bamboo!

In fact, it appears to only work specifically when this enraged, out-of-breath, dizzy, outnumbered person is also completely without martial arts training and does nothing but throw a wild and clumsy punch at the abdomen.

This is beginning to look less like a method of self-defense and more like a method of schoolyard-bullying!

Better bring some backup in case this gets ugly. 10 yellow-shirts standing in a circle yelling at you could lead to something nasty.

Although I guess it's a good thing they claim they won't touch you. (Does tasering count as touch?)

 

[Flo]

In fact, it appears to only work specifically when this enraged, out-of-breath, dizzy, outnumbered person is also completely without martial arts training and does nothing but throw a wild and clumsy punch at the abdomen.

This is beginning to look less like a method of self-defense and more like a method of schoolyard-bullying!

You have to remember that the vast majority of people engaged in martial arts have no idea at all of what an actual attack requesting "self-defense" is like, neither will they ever be confronted to one. They spend their life believing that the routines they practice with their friends in the dojo according to conventions aimed at ensuring their physical integrity* are rooted in real combat techniques.

You have therefore to excuse the sincere practitioners when they issue wild and unrealistic challenges. They have been mostly scammed themselves. Peter may be totally sincere and honest, if deluded.



* those conventions, that exist even in the most violent fighting sports, are why modern martial arts are all a kind of fiction ... but that's another debate.

 

[jmercer]

Makes me wonder how you could attack and kill someone then.

So you don't hit people, yet somehow you could take their gun from them?

Or what?

Are you serious? You can easily attack and kill someone without ever hitting them.

 

[misawafan]

Speaking of pussying out, when do we see yellow bamboozled crashing a dojo owned by a real fighter like Gracie, without asking for special conditions beforehand, instead of issuing biased challenges to guys without training in combat sports ?

I think an even better situation would be to just show up at particular bars. You'll get all the challenges you want from "normal" fighters. (Because let's face it, challenging a Fedor Emelianenko or Mirko Cro Cop would just be suicical.)

 

[jmercer]

That's what I had in mind when I mentionned "one on one" fighting. I know that foot soldiers were trained to rush at each others from some distance, mostly because they were NOT trained properly in the manipulation of whatever weapon they were using, and because most of them were not warriors to begin with and therefore needed being psyched up. Nothing like a good run to stop you from thinking about the guy in front of you ready to slice you in two

Ok, we're on the same page with this, and I agree with you 100%.

There is a huge difference between running a few meters in order to be at the right distance before your opponent gets a chance to be at his preferred distance, and running a distance sufficient to let you out of breath while your opponent is calmly waiting.

Well, the whole idea is stupid to begin with... but petpower_2k proposed a run from 10 meters prior to stopping and attacking. (Unless he reneged on that later in the thread - don't know, didn't look...)

He will be running from about 10 meters Why? Because= I want some time to prepare.
Remember I have never said that he can not run up to me, and then stand still infront of me, and then punch at me.

The attacker runs up to the YB guy then makes his attack, he does not have to be running while punching,
it only starts with the running from a distance so I have time to focus.

No one in any kind of shape (especially a practicing martial artist) should be out of breath after a 10 meter run, even if they sprint.

Might be, but not "getting angry and rushing at your opponent who's quietly waiting for your attack"

Again, 100% in agreement.

(edited because I was too dumb to do a preview first and fix formatting.)

 

[alfaniner]

Another point: if they really believe there is a form of one on one combat where people start to run at each other from so far apart, it just shows how bogus the whole concept is.

What? You've never seen Dragonball Z??

 

[Flo]

I think an even better situation would be to just show up at particular bars. You'll get all the challenges you want from "normal" fighters. (Because let's face it, challenging a Fedor Emelianenko or Mirko Cro Cop would just be suicical.)

Not good. What we're looking for is a headline like

"Deluded woo-woo gets his comeupance at the hands of a real fighter"

not

"Man beaten to a pulp in a bar brawl"

 

[Harlequin]

Originally posted by jmercer

No one in any kind of shape (especially a practicing martial artist) should be out of breath after a 10 meter run, even if they sprint.

Note that they seem to object to it actually being a practicing martial artist. I think they are more interested in something like a "practicing librarian".

No offense to CFLarsen, I'm just going by his "I don't hit people" as indicating that if he ever had martial arts training then he is certainly not currently "practicing".

 

[CFLarsen]

No offense to CFLarsen, I'm just going by his "I don't hit people" as indicating that if he ever had martial arts training then he is certainly not currently "practicing".

No martial arts training ever.

 

[jmercer]

Note that they seem to object to it actually being a practicing martial artist. I think they are more interested in something like a "practicing librarian".

That sounds about right. It's on a par with those guys that promote kongjin. When it fails, it's because you're not "sufficiently advanced in martial arts" to be vulnerable to it.

 

[rppa]

Prior to the invention of firearms, people did charge each other from far apart to engage in hand-to-hand combat. (In fact, if you think about it, non-throwing spears and other weapons were designed as stand-off weapons to keep charging attackers at a safe distance.)

Yeah, that point did occur to me, especially since I seem to have seen a lot of movies in the last couple of years featuring large armies charging each other on the run while waving swords and spears (most recently "The Last Samurai" and "Troy").

However even in those scenes, after the initial charge most of the one-on-one fighting is done from a stable fighting stance, as much as the combat allows.