WV man standing his ground, except it wasn't his

[ponderingturtle]

No. Many states allow a person to use force to defend property against theft. Some states have a rebuttable presumption that use of force is reasonable against a person who has no legitimate purpose on another person's property - the so-called Castle Doctrine. No jurisdiction (well, other than those governing state actors) allows simple trespassing as a justification for deadly force. Of course, like every other crime this is judged from the perspective of the person using force, so individual mileage will vary.

Exactly this was a minor mistake over a property line. As a mistake it should be manslaughter not murder.

 

[LTC8K6]

He's been charged with 1st degree murder. They believe he fired from inside his house at the men who were ~50 yards away on their own property at their own building.

 

[NoahFence]

Exactly this was a minor mistake over a property line. As a mistake it should be manslaughter not murder.

A minor mistake???!?!

 

[deadrose]

I'll bet he thought they were stealing his ginseng meth.

FTFY

 

[Foster Zygote]

No. Although I have not bothered to look up West Virginia statute, I suspect that even had the pair been on the shooter's land he would be facing criminal charges.

Yeah, otherwise people would be able to shoot anyone coming up their front walk and claim self-defense under "stand your ground".

"How was I supposed to know he was just my 13 year old neighbor planning on offering to shovel the snow off my driveway for twenty dollars?"

 

[ponderingturtle]

A minor mistake???!?!

Like putting a fence in the wrong place. If he can legally shoot tresspassers then yes this is a minor mistake.

Now it seems WV law does not allow that. If he had been in Texas and they were Hispanic then it clearly would be ok.

 

[LTC8K6]

No U.S. state allows you to shoot trespassers as far as I know.

 

[blutoski]

Yeah, otherwise people would be able to shoot anyone coming up their front walk and claim self-defense under "stand your ground".

"How was I supposed to know he was just my 13 year old neighbor planning on offering to shovel the snow off my driveway for twenty dollars?"

Yeah, legal execution of anybody you see on your properly would harbinger a quick end to door-to-door sales.

Avoids nasty divorces, too: "It was dark, I didn't know it was my wife in the driveway."



ETA: and the Jehova's Witnesses would have to come up with a new strategy if Christians could just shoot them the second they step onto their property.

 

[RenaissanceBiker]

Responsible guns owners have been murdering a lot of people lately.

I haven't even started yet.

 

[fuelair]

Hell, he can't even claim he didn't mean to pull the trigger--he shot two people; he's already admitted that he pulled the bolt action back and fired at the second guy. The second guy didn't even have a chance to duck after his brother went down.

A lot of people underestimate the potential firing rate of a bolt action rifle in the hands of an experienced user - and the ability to swiftly pull the bolt and aim at a new target. Oddly, before repeating/auto rifles this was a lifesaving skill. One that is still practiced by many. On the other hand - as I think I noted above - bad choice of things to do to greet new neighbors.

 

[Xulld]

KatieG, was this thread really just you jabbing at the pro gun around here, or are you really not aware of what stand your ground means?

 

[squealpiggy]

A lot of people underestimate the potential firing rate of a bolt action rifle in the hands of an experienced user - and the ability to swiftly pull the bolt and aim at a new target. Oddly, before repeating/auto rifles this was a lifesaving skill. One that is still practiced by many. On the other hand - as I think I noted above - bad choice of things to do to greet new neighbors.

This is the sort of thing that can really interfere with the bake sale.

 

[johnny karate]

Exactly this was a minor mistake over a property line. As a mistake it should be manslaughter not murder.

He pointed a gun at two people, pulled the trigger, and killed them.

How is that not murder?

 

[Tony]

Not in this case.

No true responsible gun owner.

 

[Travis]

http://gawker.com/man-shoots-new-neighbors-he-thought-were-stealing-from-1509601587

A West Virginia man faces two counts of murder for killing a pair of men from a distance with a rifle after he wrongly assumed they were on his land. The victims, it turns out, were his new neighbors, checking out their property for the first time.

He's being charged with 1st degree murder. Lesson here: Know your property lines!

I guess not shooting first, asking questions later is just too much to ask of gun owners.

So in the US if you walk on some ones land by accident, although this was not the case here, the land owner can legally kill you even before you can explain it was mistake?

If you fear them you can. That is why stand your ground laws are perhaps the most idiotic bits of legislation that have ever been implemented by so called first world societies.

If we had a stand your ground law my uncle Richard wouldn't be in prison because he really did believe all Latino people are rapists and thieves and thus he had good reason to shoot two teenagers through his front door.

He was afraid, on his ground and executed his 2nd amendment rights gosh darn it. It's not his fault the rest of us fail to see that all Latino people need to be killed before they rob and rape you.

No. Many states allow a person to use force to defend property against theft. Some states have a rebuttable presumption that use of force is reasonable against a person who has no legitimate purpose on another person's property - the so-called Castle Doctrine. No jurisdiction (well, other than those governing state actors) allows simple trespassing as a justification for deadly force. Of course, like every other crime this is judged from the perspective of the person using force, so individual mileage will vary.

But what if he was afraid? He had that darned gun there to make it so he wouldn't have to be afraid any longer and he took advantage of it.

He pointed a gun at two people, pulled the trigger, and killed them.

How is that not murder?

Easy, he thought the men needed killing because of fear. Fear justifies everything. Fear is why he had the damned gun in the first place.

 

[smartcooky]

I think first-degree murder is probably a reach, but two counts of manslaughter at the very least. This guy's facing a long stretch (decades) in the pen.

He saw two strangers on what he thought was his property
He went and got his rifle with the intention of shooting them
He lined them up in his sights, and with malice aforethought, shot them both dead.

That is Murder in the First Degree any way you slice it.

 

[Doghouse Reilly]

I guess not shooting first, asking questions later is just too much to ask of gun owners.



If you fear them you can. That is why stand your ground laws are perhaps the most idiotic bits of legislation that have ever been implemented by so called first world societies.

If we had a stand your ground law my uncle Richard wouldn't be in prison because he really did believe all Latino people are rapists and thieves and thus he had good reason to shoot two teenagers through his front door.

He was afraid, on his ground and executed his 2nd amendment rights gosh darn it. It's not his fault the rest of us fail to see that all Latino people need to be killed before they rob and rape you.



But what if he was afraid? He had that darned gun there to make it so he wouldn't have to be afraid any longer and he took advantage of it.



Easy, he thought the men needed killing because of fear. Fear justifies everything. Fear is why he had the damned gun in the first place.

No, your uncle would still be in prison because the stand your ground laws require that a reasonable person would be in fear for their life. Plenty of people attempt to use stand your ground defenses and are convicted of murder because the law doesn't allow it to be used as a get out of jail free card. And that's why this man is being charged with murder. Is that so hard to understand?

 

[WildCat]

So in the US if you walk on some ones land by accident, although this was not the case here, the land owner can legally kill you even before you can explain it was mistake?

No, that's why he's being charged with murder.

And why this guy is spending the rest of his life in prison.

 

[WildCat]

I'll bet he thought they were stealing his ginseng.

I've been watching that "reality" show too...

 

[WildCat]

Like putting a fence in the wrong place. If he can legally shoot tresspassers then yes this is a minor mistake.

Now it seems WV law does not allow that. If he had been in Texas and they were Hispanic then it clearly would be ok.

Clearly it would not be OK.

Why on earth would you think it would?