DGM
Skeptic not Atheist
It didn't in his video.I'm not sure an S-8-33 actually exists.
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It didn't in his video.I'm not sure an S-8-33 actually exists.
This video is private.
Sorry about that.
ok, its unlocked, its part of a longer vid thats a work in progress, so it wont be there long, i only showed it to shut gamolon up with his accusations.
Kind of makes my point, thanks.
It didn't in his video.He cropped the page so floor 33 was at the top. You couldn't see how the lower drawings were numbered but the floors above were marked with ascending numbers. His own video does not support his claim.
The video was open for a short amount of time. It was essentially a screen shot of an index of drawings (all types). The problem I saw is you couldn't see what "S" drawings any of the other floors used. It seemed to me like he really didn't want you to look very closely at this document.Was there another video aside from the one gerrycan posted that is private?
The video was open for a short amount of time. It was essentially a screen shot of an index of drawings (all types). The problem I saw is you couldn't see what "S" drawings any of the other floors used. It seemed to me like he really didn't want you to look very closely at this document.
His comment to me about how he thinks the drawings for lower floors should have been marked was not supported by this index.
What does the top say gerrycan?
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TYP. FLOOR FRAMING PLAN 8th to 20th & 24th TO 45th
Do you know what "TYP." means in that title? Or maybe the words "8th TO 24th" are confusing you? Or is it "24th TO 45th" you're having a hard time with?
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Ahhh, so youre not lookin at the skidmore. owings and merril title sheet then, where it says that s-8 is the 33rd floor framing plan. No wonder you're confused.
The drawings you showed were by architects/engineers SOM dated 1989 and were tenant improvement drawings.
These were in the video that is now private.BasqueArch,
Can you point me in the direction of these drawings that he supposedly showed (in this forum or elsewhere perhaps)? Or were these in the video that is now private?
Thanks.
The video was open for a short amount of time. It was essentially a screen shot of an index of drawings (all types). The problem I saw is you couldn't see what "S" drawings any of the other floors used. It seemed to me like he really didn't want you to look very closely at this document.
His comment to me about how he thinks the drawings for lower floors should have been marked was not supported by this index.
Originally Posted by Newtons Bit
I'm not sure an S-8-33 actually exists.
So you are unsure. Fair comment.
As ever, the truth will be discovered only by those that can't use the quote function or apostrophes. It's pretty much a religious belief system.
Finally, as I said before, I stated 9 months or so ago that the drawings I would have liked to have used in the original video were S-8-12 and S-8-13. Then, as now, I wouldn’t refer to a drawing that did not exist.
Originally Posted by Newtons Bit
I'm not sure an S-8-33 actually exists.
So you are unsure. Fair comment.
Originally Posted by DGM
The video was open for a short amount of time. It was essentially a screen shot of an index of drawings (all types). The problem I saw is you couldn't see what "S" drawings any of the other floors used. It seemed to me like he really didn't want you to look very closely at this document.
His comment to me about how he thinks the drawings for lower floors should have been marked was not supported by this index.
Yes, again, a fair comment. This index does however, prove that more than one S-8 drawing does indeed exist, and that a title sheet that calls S-8 to be the 33rd floor framing plan exists. This proves that Gamolon was 100% wrong when he said, in post #490
“You made up the existence of a supposed title sheet referring to an S-8 drawing being for floor 33. You keep making crap up to support your arguments. It makes you look silly.”
Gamolon, you should admit that you were wrong in saying this.
Also, Basquearch. When you say,
“Right you are. SOM tenant drawings S8 floor 33 would place S1 at floor 26.
This matches the date that Salomon Brothers occupied the top 19 floors.
Gerrycan's cropped selective video doesn't show this nor the title block, which I believe would be titled "Salomon Brothers Tenant Improvements" or similar.”
…I can understand the logic, but you are mistaken. Floor 26 is not referred to at all, and certainly not in drawing S-1.
Finally, as I said before, I stated 9 months or so ago that the drawings I would have liked to have used in the original video were S-8-12 and S-8-13. Then, as now, I wouldn’t refer to a drawing that did not exist.
Yes, assuming you're representing the hypothesis correctly. Because it actually happened. Unlikely events happen all the time.So are you saying that even with odds against it of a million-to-one, you would accept the credibility of the NIST 'prevailing heat from migrating office cubicle fires' hypothesis?
Plastic can look like an apple. What something looks like is not what it is.Well I didn't think you had to be a detective to see that?
So you cannot provide any evidence of the similar towers you claimed existed. Gotcha.You state that no buildings over 30 stories have ever been felled by controlled demolition [commercially].
Since these buildings tend to exist in high density commercial areas, there are obvious reasons for using other demolition methods.
Probably the biggest single reason, other than the debris cloud, is that it is hard to get buildings to drop straight down.
So because they determined it probably went a certain path, it means that it had to have been directed along that path?The NIST hypothesis requires very smart fires and a secret fuel stash.
Most demolitions don't take seven hours.Fires that amazingly performed a complete high speed building demolition.
And? My point was that any such building you provide wouldn't have been close to the size of WTC 7, which means saying it had a "similar outline" is dubious at best.And did so, accidentally no less, on a building 56% taller than those in the published engineering record.
What steel towers? Provide examples.AND, produced a total collapse with a visual outline previously identifiable only with those steel towers felled by controlled demolition.
Yes, but it'd be a much, much worse than million-to-one chance of them pulling it off right. Of course, any statistician can tell you that million to one chances are well known for being unreliable. Unlikely things may happen, but a sane engineer should never count on them.You appear to be confused so I'll re-phrase that question.
Do you believe that demolition engineers could do what the NIST argues was possible with the prevailing heat from migrating office cubicle fires?
Induce a column failure comparable to what the NIST claims to have happened to the undamaged column 79.
They sure would. Which is why they don't use fire, on account of it being unreliable. Who do you think you're rebutting here? Fire can collapse steel buildings. It'd be nigh-impossible to do in any sort of controlled manner, but it could happen. Whether a CD crew could make fire collapse the building is not relevant to the question of whether random fire made the building collapse. Quit trying to backdoor "CD" so you can backdoor "explothermite".No.
What I am saying is that building demolition companies would have to be magicians in order to get the necessary abeyance of reality to create high speed total steel building collapses by fire.
MM
That there are more drawings out there than you or I have seen is undoubtedly true, as is the fact that NIST failed to represent connections and elements in a manner supported by analysis of the drawings you cite above. What we have is a selective release of drawings and a misrepresentation of their contents.I have the structural drawings from the FOIA request (which AE911truth erroneously calls "blueprints"). There is no S-8-33 in it. Maybe an S-8-33 exists, but it's not in the same set of information that everyone else has.