WTC Discussion: Core Column Temperature & Failure.

[Gravy]

Dose anybody know which particular office was closest to where the flowing stuff was seen?

If so, did they have anything unusual in their office that might explain this material? Like lots of glass-top desks, or pictures framed with glass covers, or something?

The force of the impact at the southeast side pushed all sorts of everything up against that northeast corner. That debris can be seen piled up against the windows. NIST surmises that the molten material is mostly aluminum from the aircraft. That makes sense.

 

[Belz...]

Just so everyone knows, these are the people on my ignore list:

beachnut, dog town, horatius, jamrat, tbone, stateofgrace, kookbreaker, architect

I can see everyone else. But, these people (on my ignore list) really shouldn't direct anything at me, because you're only making it more difficult for those who actually want to discuss this topic, to follow the conversation.

A word of advice: don't put anyone on ignore. You never know when the right answer'll come from one of those people.

Unless someone completely irrelevant to the discussion. You can therefore put hammegk in your ignore list immediately, should he ever show up.

Aw, did I actually do something to upset you? Aw, am I making too much sense?

Nope. No sense at all.

Well, at least your sentences are coherent, unlike se7en's.

OBJECTIVE, VERIFIABLE, EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE

Speculation is not evidence, to say nothing about beign empirical.

You think NIST has given that to you?

Argument from incredulity. Yet another logical fallacy.

Okay, Arkan, let's continue to discuss therma/ite. We've seen the video of yellow-orange molten material pouring from WTC 2. NIST even addresses this. They say it's silvery molten aluminum mixed with burned organic material like computers, carpet, furniture. Is this what you believe?

Thermite will not keep things burning for days.

Because, we all know the fires on the impact floors weren't hot enough to melt the steel from the towers

We also happen to know that this little strawman has been demolished long ago. Who ever said the columns were melted ?

Is it more likely that silvery molten aluminum mixed with black burned materials creates a glowing yellow-orange molten material....than to believe that a simple therma/ite reaction was set off by the fires on the impact floors?

Yes, yes it is. Because the second one requires that someone, contra all the evidence, managed to sneak the thermite in the building, something that could only be done over a whole YEAR of unhindered work.

 

[Gravy]

Even though everything in the NIST report contradicts itself...and has no basis in science.

You haven't even read the damn report, but you spew this idiocy? Disgusting.

 

[aggle-rithm]

You have to realize that the US government has access to technologies that are 20-30 years ahead of what the public knows about, so is it really that hard to believe they could make a therma/ite device that can cut through a vertical steel column?

How do YOU know about these technologies? Aren't YOU part of the public?

Oops, have I blown your cover?

ETA: keep in mind that the technology used at NASA is more like 20-30 years BEHIND the times. Last I heard, the navigation computer on the space shuttle only had 256 kb of memory.

 

[Horatius]

The force of the impact at the southeast side pushed all sorts of everything up against that northeast corner. That debris can be seen piled up against the windows. NIST surmises that the molten material is mostly aluminum from the aircraft. That makes sense.

I had heard something about the debris being moved by the plane, but I didn't realize that it was actually visible in the windows. Do we have links to any pictures of that?

 

[Belz...]

Firstly, you can tell me how burned (as in burnt...as in black and not orange from burning)

Yes, burnt is ALWAYS black. Or is it ?

Are these radioactive materials? How does carpet glow orange? How do computers glow orange? How does furniture glow orange?

Gosh, with that attitude you're going to convince them ALL.

 

[aggle-rithm]

I said that if I gave you a device that could cut the vertical columns, that you would still have an innumerable amount of questions that you demand I answer. Skeptics like to tear things apart (over analyze) until there is nothing left...and then they say, "See, there is nothing there. No evidence." Yea, I know...because you just kept breaking it down until there was literally...nothing left.

Skeptics remove the stuff that is untrue, or unverifiable and unlikely to be true. If nothing is left after that...well, so be it. That's the way the cookie crumbles.

 

[aggle-rithm]

28K, can I ask this question one more time?

If the glowing material pouring out of the tower is thermite that was used to sever the interior columns, how did it travel the 60+ feet from the columns to the edge of the building without solidifying?

 

[babazaroni]

28K, can I ask this question one more time?

If the glowing material pouring out of the tower is thermite that was used to sever the interior columns, how did it travel the 60+ feet from the columns to the edge of the building without solidifying?

Good question.

But even if it is able to travel, something else does not make sense.

28K says the core columns are able to support the entire weight of the upper mass with the outer columns buckled.

This means that he also has to accept the fact that the outer columns can support the mass with the core columns severed.

Thus, he has to cut a substantial amount of perimeter columns as well.

 

[28th Kingdom]

You say it right there 28K. The color is coming from the glow of the material.

You need to call something that glows burning to keep up the semantic twisting.

Why do your arguements depend so heavily on twisted semantics.

Something is glowing, I don't care if you call it burning or burnt.

It is glowing.

If you want to know why it sounds so confusing...it's because NIST is using all kinds of Doublespeak. Now, you tell me...how does organic material like carpet, computers, and furniture glow orange? How? If they are not burning...how are they glowing? NIST describes them as partially burned. You do understand, that burned means...they're not burning anymore, right? Why would NIST say this material has no visual indication of burning and then proceed to say that it is a burning material? The molten aluminum plus partially burned debris is the flowing material. They say the flowing material has no visual indication that it's burning...and then they say it is glowing orange (visual indication) like logs burning in a fireplace.

Why are you projecting the semantic word games on me? I'm not the one using Doublespeak like NIST.

 

[defaultdotxbe]

Thus, he has to cut a substantial amount of perimeter columns as well.

which explains the thermite at the side of the building

its delightfully circular

so what about this thermite device? do you have a proof of concept yet?

 

[Mercutio]

Imagine...if you will, a device that looks similar to a c-clamp, like this:

[snip]

My apologies if my memory is faulty here, but was it you, 28th, who posted a picture of some columns you claim were cut with thermite? Not merely that angled cut that you have not changed your mind about, but another pic, in the facade of a building (again, if memory serves)?

Could you re-examine those pictures and let us know if you can see any evidence of a device like yours (or unlike yours) on those "stumps"? If there were nothing attached to the stump, the thermite would have simply fallen with gravity and not melted the column, so there has to have been something connected underneath the cutting line.

If you find such evidence, would you please repost the pictures and point it out? If you do not find such evidence, which is wrong--your conjecture about specific devices, or your conjecture about those particular structural members having been cut with thermite? Or both?

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

If you want to know why it sounds so confusing...it's because NIST is using all kinds of Doublespeak. Now, you tell me...how does organic material like carpet, computers, and furniture glow orange? How? If they are not burning...how are they glowing? NIST describes them as partially burned. You do understand, that burned means...they're not burning anymore, right? Why would NIST say this material has no visual indication of burning and then proceed to say that it is a burning material? The molten aluminum plus partially burned debris is the flowing material. They say the flowing material has no visual indication that it's burning...and then they say it is glowing orange (visual indication) like logs burning in a fireplace.

Why are you projecting the semantic word games on me? I'm not the one using Doublespeak like NIST.

1) Did you read about the blackbody radiation?
2) Do you expect that flames would be visible at the viewing distance in the video?
3) Stop jumping around. Focus on one thing until (a) we are all in agreement on it, or (b) we agree to disagree. Then move on to the next point.

 

[babazaroni]

If you want to know why it sounds so confusing...it's because NIST is using all kinds of Doublespeak. Now, you tell me...how does organic material like carpet, computers, and furniture glow orange? How? If they are not burning...how are they glowing? NIST describes them as partially burned. You do understand, that burned means...they're not burning anymore, right? Why would NIST say this material has no visual indication of burning and then proceed to say that it is a burning material? The molten aluminum plus partially burned debris is the flowing material. They say the flowing material has no visual indication that it's burning...and then they say it is glowing orange (visual indication) like logs burning in a fireplace.

Why are you projecting the semantic word games on me? I'm not the one using Doublespeak like NIST.

They say partially burned. That means part of the material is not burned.

Why do you expect unburned material in a molten flow to retain it's original color?

 

[Arus808]

Just so everyone knows, these are the people on my ignore list:

beachnut, dog town, horatius, jamrat, tbone, stateofgrace, kookbreaker, architect

I can see everyone else. But, these people (on my ignore list) really shouldn't direct anything at me, because you're only making it more difficult for those who actually want to discuss this topic, to follow the conversation.

Unfortunately, you dont make the rules here. Thank $deity.
So people can respond to those yuo have on ignore to make sure what they say is understood by all, who may have forgotten or didn't realize another fact.

If you put people on ignore, you only lose out in the end.

 

[TellyKNeasuss]

Even though everything in the NIST report contradicts itself...and has no basis in science.

This is the third time that you've made this claim, and you have yet to justify it. In fact, it's clear that you haven't even read the NIST report. It's also clear that you've never taken a physics class. Opinions aren't proof and opinions based on ignorance are little more than sources of amusement.

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Unfortunately, you dont make the rules here. Thank $deity.
So people can respond to those yuo have on ignore to make sure what they say is understood by all, who may have forgotten or didn't realize another fact.

If you put people on ignore, you only lose out in the end.

Unless, as Belz said, it's hammegk or, imho, T'ai Chi.

 

[aggle-rithm]

28K, can I ask this question one more time?

If the glowing material pouring out of the tower is thermite that was used to sever the interior columns, how did it travel the 60+ feet from the columns to the edge of the building without solidifying?

 

[babazaroni]

Unfortunately, you dont make the rules here. Thank $deity.
So people can respond to those yuo have on ignore to make sure what they say is understood by all, who may have forgotten or didn't realize another fact.

If you put people on ignore, you only lose out in the end.

He also said, if you quote them, you will be ignored as well.

 

[28th Kingdom]

28K, can I ask this question one more time?

If the glowing material pouring out of the tower is thermite that was used to sever the interior columns, how did it travel the 60+ feet from the columns to the edge of the building without solidifying?

That's an easy question. Um, what bout the HUGE airliner that crashed into the building doing 500mph? You all like to forget this fact when it becomes inconvenient, right? Maybe this plane busted open some therma/ite containers...which scattered the therma/ite powder across the building.

The corner we see the therma/ite pouring from in this video:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=545886459853896774

Is on the opposite side from where the plane impacted...so the plane would have pushed any materials in the building i.e. therma/ite over to this side.

Also, look at how this molten material is giving off sparks like a therma/ite reaction. Those sparks and reactions are caused from heat that exceeds temperatures that could have been present on those impact floors. Why? Because, science tells us that certain materials can only burn so hot. Jet fuel, can only burn up to about 1000C, and organic material such as computers, furniture, carpet etc...burn even cooler than that. You would need temperatures in excess of 1000C to make a molten metal spark and react like that. This is another way, I claim I scientifically proved this had to be therma/ite or a therma/ite like substance.