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Wow, UK has lost freedom of speech

Thermal said:
What does it sound like? An area around an abortion provider where women can be free of holy rollers screaming 'whore' and 'murderer' at them. It's lots of fun after you've been raped to have to listen to that.
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But preventing them from doing that harassment is a violation of the first amendment, that is why such safe zones are illegal in the US. By stopping this harassment we are proving that they do not respect free speech.
 
Thermal said:
What does it sound like? An area around an abortion provider where women can be free of holy rollers screaming 'whore' and 'murderer' at them. It's lots of fun after you've been raped to have to listen to that.
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So if I am on a publicly owned sidewalk in front of an abortion clinic, Im not allowed to yell "dont abort your baby!!!"?

Thats not freedom of speech.
 
ponderingturtle said:
Exactly harassment is a protected part of free speech.
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Harrassment, within reason, is certainly protected speech.

On a sidewalk, I can yell whatever the ◊◊◊◊ I want at people.

I can yell at them to not get a vaccine, not get an abortion, not have their wisdom teeth removed.

Freedom of Speech isn't always pretty. Its not meant to be.

As long as I dont threaten immediate violence, its legal.

How big is this abortion clinic authoritarian protection zone? 100 ft from the building?
 
Thermal said:
Agreed. That's harrasment. Targeting individuals for harassment is harassment. It's right there in the name.
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Harrassment should not always be a crime.

No, harassment is not always a crime; it becomes a crime only when it is severe, pervasive, or includes physical acts like assault or threats, causing the victim to feel fear of harm or distress. While workplace harassment is illegal if severe or frequent, it can also lead to civil cases and does not always result in criminal charges.
When Harassment is a Crime
Harassment can be considered a crime when it is intentional and severe, causing a person to be in reasonable fear of physical harm



As long as I do not threaten violence, I should have EVERY right to stand on the sidewalk and yell at people to not get an abortion, a vaccine, or have their wisdom teeth removed.
 
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Hercules56 said:
Harrassment should not always be a crime.

No, harassment is not always a crime; it becomes a crime only when it is severe, pervasive, or includes physical acts like assault or threats, causing the victim to feel fear of harm or distress. While workplace harassment is illegal if severe or frequent, it can also lead to civil cases and does not always result in criminal charges.
When Harassment is a Crime
Harassment can be considered a crime when it is intentional and severe, causing a person to be in reasonable fear of physical harm
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Agreed. See how easy it is?
 
Hercules56 said:
Harrassment should not always be a crime.

No, harassment is not always a crime; it becomes a crime only when it is severe, pervasive, or includes physical acts like assault or threats, causing the victim to feel fear of harm or distress. While workplace harassment is illegal if severe or frequent, it can also lead to civil cases and does not always result in criminal charges.
When Harassment is a Crime
Harassment can be considered a crime when it is intentional and severe, causing a person to be in reasonable fear of physical harm



As long as I do not threaten violence, I should have EVERY right to stand on the sidewalk and yell at people to not get an abortion, a vaccine, or have their wisdom teeth removed.
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So we can say that it is wrong that people tried to stop a man for merely having a racist attack on others on the train, that is a clear violation of the first amendment and his response by stabbing them was really just protecting his first amendment rights to harass women.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Portland_train_attack
 
ponderingturtle said:
So we can say that it is wrong that people tried to stop a man for merely having a racist attack on others on the train, that is a clear violation of the first amendment and his response by stabbing them was really just protecting his first amendment rights to harass women.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Portland_train_attack
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Thats a little different.

Being on a subway or bus should and does require TOS policies that all customers need to abide by.

If not, they should be confronted by staff and police if necessary.

Do you have the right to yell at someone who is yelling racial slurs on a bus? Yes.

Do you have the right to assault them or threaten assault? Nope.
 
Hercules56 said:
Yes, a reasonable fear of physical harm

Simply yelling "dont get a vaccine!!" cannot cause in itself, a reasonable fear of physical harm.
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Agreed! Simply yelling 'don't get a vaccine!" does not cause a reasonable fear of physical harm. Now you are understanding the difference, and have finally gotten up to speed after 28 ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ pages.

ETA: it's not all or none, always or never, execution or protected, black and white.

If you bothered to read your own googly-summation, reasonable fear of physical of physical harm is only ONE example condition, of several. Simply causing distress is another.
 
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Hercules56 said:
Thats a little different.

Being on a subway or bus should and does require TOS policies that all customers need to abide by.

If not, they should be confronted by staff and police if necessary.

Do you have the right to yell at someone who is yelling racial slurs on a bus? Yes.

Do you have the right to assault them or threaten assault? Nope.
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Which is why the so called victims where in the wrong. He was engaging in first amendment protected harassment and they tried to threaten him to stop it. So he defended himself.
 
ponderingturtle said:
Which is why the so called victims where in the wrong. He was engaging in first amendment protected harassment and they tried to threaten him to stop it. So he defended himself.
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No, busses and trains have a right to ban harrassment even if would be legal on a sidewalk.

But you dont have a right to assault someone just cause they call you the N word on a train. If you do, the bigot has the right to defend themselves with force. Even deadly force if reasonable.
 
Thermal said:
What does it sound like? An area around an abortion provider where women can be free of holy rollers screaming 'whore' and 'murderer' at them.
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And in the UK, you can't even pray silently in that area. Adam Smith-Connor was not harassing anyone, he was not traumatizing anyone, he was not screaming anything at all. In fact, as far as I can tell, no one even complained about him.

But he was still arrested, tried, and convicted. Because you're not allowed to pray silently in certain places. Not even, it should be noted, on your own property, if it's within 150 meters of an abortion clinic.
 
Hercules56 said:
No, busses and trains have a right to ban harrassment even if would be legal on a sidewalk.

But you dont have a right to assault someone just cause they call you the N word on a train. If you do, the bigot has the right to defend themselves with force. Even deadly force if reasonable.
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Yes but the people who intervened had no right to do so as they were passengers not officials or police officers.
 
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