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Would Religion still continue if....

Was Grandma lucky?

  • No, how can a heart attack be called lucky?

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes, she may have died without those cardiologists.

    Votes: 1 25.0%
  • On planet X, she would have had a spare heart anyway.

    Votes: 3 75.0%

  • Total voters
    4
Franko,

What you believe the logical deity part etc, is it like what the book of the Kabbalah/Zohar teaches?

The teaching of invisible universal laws like a spiritual equivalent of gravity thing? When you meditate you reach a divine light which helps you understand these laws and so improve your life ?
 
Pie:
The teaching of invisible universal laws like a spiritual equivalent of gravity thing?

I certainly understand where Lucus came up with the idea of “the Force”.

When you meditate you reach a divine light which helps you understand these laws and so improve your life ?

I’ve heard people describe it like that.

What’s the Source of the Truth, Pie? Is it some random non-conscious force, or is it something much, much more like us, only older and wiser … more evolved?

A-Theist always want god to appear out of the clouds surrounded by angels and radiant light. I guess She can, but Gods like the DM in D&D, She doesn’t physically manifest as an entity like us in this reality, because 1) She’s generating this reality (She “is” the reality (her mind projects it)), and 2) because Her physically manifesting would rather defeat the entire purpose of the Universe being created in the first place (it would make us all conformist).
 
Penrich:
... can you explain to me exactly how the laws of physics control this process? How does Heisenburg's Uncertainty principle fit in with this? How can the course of neural development be preordained? Given especially that biology tends to be not 100% one way or another - gradients of development "factors" (homeo-box containing proteins and the like), graded gene responses, etc.

Let me just set you straight on the heisenberg magical uncertainty principle real quick. Quantum “magic” is a myth. It doesn’t exist. First of all, particles only “seem” to do their “magic” when no one is looking. As soon as some one looks, then they are as real and as solid as you or me.

Ohhh, but wait! the A-Theists cry. You forget about the Heinyberg unsupernaturalty principle! They don’t really look solid at all you can only see position, or velocity, but you can’t see both. But actually they are wrong, very wrong. You take a picture of the particles, and then you look at the picture, and low and behold you just blasted hienyberg a new and larger heinyberg, because in that image is far more certainty than Heiny or John Bell says is possible to ever know.

It’s just like Einstein said, The Goddess does not play dice with the universe. She just uses Her own imagination.

As to your questions regarding genetics. Our DNA is like a “body program” the Goddess has been working on for a long, long time. She is making constant improvements to the overall algorithm. Your body comes from the LG, it’s not you, it’s just your “character”, it’s like the clothes you wear while you’re here in this universe. The real You is your Soul, your graviton, your core algorithm. Your Soul manifest in your genetics as “random” mutations in the DNA sequence. But where your Soul really manifest is in the personality. It’s far more magnified at that point.
 
Franko said:


I certainly understand where Lucas came up with the idea of “the Force”.



I’ve heard people describe it like that.

What’s the Source of the Truth, Pie? Is it some random non-conscious force, or is it something much, much more like us, only older and wiser … more evolved?

A-Theist always want god to appear out of the clouds surrounded by angels and radiant light. I guess She can, but Gods like the DM in D&D, She does'nt’t physically manifest as an entity like us in this reality, because 1) She’s generating this reality (She “is” the reality (her mind projects it)), and 2) because Her physically manifesting would rather defeat the entire purpose of the Universe being created in the first place (it would make us all conformist).

Lucas the force lol got it :D


More evolved more conscious? Isn't all consciousness random?

Why she?

Sounds like we are her dreams?

What you say sounds like the Kabbalah teaching similar law and invisible laws gravity etc.
 
Princess Pie:
More evolved more conscious? Isn't all consciousness random?

In the sense that you and I were lucky enough to be born humans instead of dogs, cows, or worms. But who knows … on the scale of Eternity … ?


What makes you think it’s a he? ;)

Sounds like we are her dreams?

That’s the Eastern way of looking at it, but it is not accurate, and I believe it leads to conformity. Gravitons (individual self-aware consciousnesses), Time-aware entities are all intrinsically the same. We all share a common core algorithm. She’s definitely way above us on the pyramid of reality, but we are inherently just as solid as She is.

But you could look at yourself in the same light. You have good memes (good ideas) and bad memes (bad ideas) inside your head, and those memes are like individual entities in some regard, and You are like the Goddess of that universe, you are the one who will pass ultimate judgment over those memes, declaring which memes get their autonomy, and which memes are consigned to languish in the Abyss and be forgotten.

What you say sounds like the Kabbalah teaching similar law and invisible laws gravity etc

According to LD, Gravity is the unifying, or constant force through out the entire Omniverse. In other words, if there were different Universes all of the laws of physics could be altered in the different universes, but not Gravity.
 
My view... if god(s) was/were proven to exist, could there possibly be anything more important? I'd become a believer, if not a worshipper.
 
My view... if god(s) was/were proven to exist, could there possibly be anything more important? I'd become a believer, if not a worshipper.

You seem to be doing a good job of believing in "free willy" right now, and there is no evidence for "free willy" what-so-ever.

Atoms obey the Laws of Physics.
You are made of atoms.
You obey The laws of Physics.

How can you worship a god ("free willy") that clearly doesn't even exist?

You're worshipping the wrong deity, my friend.
 
Thorin LungHammer said:
My view... if god(s) was/were proven to exist, could there possibly be anything more important? I'd become a believer, if not a worshipper.

Why TLH if it was proven?
 
I didnt think he either unsexed was in my mind.


No memes are bad, dont meme me


Ahhh penny is dropping slowly its making sense sort of I can see what you mean.:D
 
Pie:
I didnt think he either unsexed was in my mind.

Ohhh, my goddess … you SkeptiChicks are simply to delectable for mere words.

Spin (Gender) is an intrinsic property of all gravitons. Viewed from one level in the hierarchy it is definitely a binary option – it is either Positive, or Negative. But once you rise about a certain base level Spin manifest as a Sequence. It’s a range – a scale. Above a mean value (0, or “Neutral Spin”) you have Positive, and below that same mean you have Negative.

The LG has a Positive Spin.

No memes are bad, dont meme me

Anytime you exchange any comprehensible information with any other consciousness you are memeing and being memed. Memes are like packets of information (quanta) than Gravitons exchange. And technically speaking, Gravitons (individual consciousnesses) are made of memes.

(Meme = an encapsulated idea)

There are plenty of “bad memes”. There are memes that are downright “Evil”. And they are evil by any logically consistent definition of that term. Look … this universe is like a “system”, and that system was based on a simpler previous system. Now when this “newer” system was created/designed someone made improvements on the old system, but we were still stuck with the old data as the starting point, and some of that data was bad (False). The new system is designed to sniff out and eliminate that bad data, and correct flaws in the overall algorithm, but that doesn’t change the fact that there is still bad data in the system.

[Gravity …] Ahhh penny is dropping slowly its making sense sort of I can see what you mean.

People go from one extreme to the other, their algorithm is cycling. Things may not seem constant, it may seem that reality cannot possibly be consistent over Time, but there is a fundamental constant that stretches across Time and unifies Eternity. It’s our way of keeping the good ideas (memes) as we move along.

How do you describe your metaphysical stance Pie? At first I thought you were an A-Theist, but now I wonder if you more likely label yourself Agnostic or Buddhist beyond the universe of this forum?
 
Franko said:


You seem to be doing a good job of believing in "free willy" right now, and there is no evidence for "free willy" what-so-ever.

Atoms obey the Laws of Physics.
You are made of atoms.
You obey The laws of Physics.

How can you worship a god ("free willy") that clearly doesn't even exist?

You're worshipping the wrong deity, my friend.

When I was young, my mother used to knock on my door and tell me, "Your record's skipping again." whenever I listened to my Philip Glass LPs.

Frank, your record's skipping again...
 
When I was young, my mother used to knock on my door and tell me, "Your record's skipping again." whenever I listened to my Philip Glass LPs.

Frank, your record's skipping again...

I just wonder why some one would be so proud of looking down on Theists while holding a fundamental core belief based on far less evidence (None) then the very people you are so proud to look down on?

And then to repeat this utterance in a Skeptics forum of all places? It boggles the mind ... ? ? ?
 
Franko said:


I just wonder why some one would be so proud of looking down on Theists while holding a fundamental core belief based on far less evidence (None) then the very people you are so proud to look down on?

And then to repeat this utterance in a Skeptics forum of all places? It boggles the mind ... ? ? ?

So now I'm 'proud of looking down on theists'... so proud... do we know each other? Have I ever expressed this pride to you?

Your rec- rec- rec- rec- rec(smack) record's skipping Franko.

I look at the concept of god skeptically. I have no 'fundamental core belief', rather, a lack of belief. I can't find any reason to believe in a god.

Franko, you often make me think. More often, however, I find your ad nauseum repetition of the same ideas boring. Gotta keep your potential audience interested Franko. :rolleyes:
 
Franko said:


Let me just set you straight on the heisenberg magical uncertainty principle real quick. Quantum ?magic? is a myth. It doesn?t exist. First of all, particles only ?seem? to do their ?magic? when no one is looking. As soon as some one looks, then they are as real and as solid as you or me.

Ohhh, but wait! the A-Theists cry. You forget about the Heinyberg unsupernaturalty principle! They don?t really look solid at all you can only see position, or velocity, but you can?t see both. But actually they are wrong, very wrong. You take a picture of the particles, and then you look at the picture, and low and behold you just blasted hienyberg a new and larger heinyberg, because in that image is far more certainty than Heiny or John Bell says is possible to ever know.

It?s just like Einstein said, The Goddess does not play dice with the universe. She just uses Her own imagination.
I am glad that you are so knowledgeable about physics (after all, it is your religion). Can you point me to a peer-reviewed journal in which the HUP and quantum mechanics is debunked?

As to your questions regarding genetics. Our DNA is like a ?body program? the Goddess has been working on for a long, long time. She is making constant improvements to the overall algorithm. Your body comes from the LG, it?s not you, it?s just your ?character?, it?s like the clothes you wear while you?re here in this universe. The real You is your Soul, your graviton, your core algorithm. Your Soul manifest in your genetics as ?random? mutations in the DNA sequence. But where your Soul really manifest is in the personality. It?s far more magnified at that point.
I mentioned "genes" once right at the end. It was not a genetics question at all. I was asking about neurons (nerve cells, in the brain...).

Let me put it to you in this way then: Do the laws of physics (TLOP, as you call them) control every single aspect of biology? A simple YES or NO answer would suffice.
 
Franko said:


Let me just set you straight on the heisenberg magical uncertainty principle real quick. Quantum ?magic? is a myth. It doesn?t exist. First of all, particles only ?seem? to do their ?magic? when no one is looking. As soon as some one looks, then they are as real and as solid as you or me.

Ohhh, but wait! the A-Theists cry. You forget about the Heinyberg unsupernaturalty principle! They don?t really look solid at all you can only see position, or velocity, but you can?t see both. But actually they are wrong, very wrong. You take a picture of the particles, and then you look at the picture, and low and behold you just blasted hienyberg a new and larger heinyberg, because in that image is far more certainty than Heiny or John Bell says is possible to ever know.

It?s just like Einstein said, The Goddess does not play dice with the universe. She just uses Her own imagination.

Einstein was very unhappy about this apparent randomness in nature. His views were summed up in his famous phrase, 'God does not play dice'. He seemed to have felt that the uncertainty was only provisional: but that there was an underlying reality, in which particles would have well defined positions and speeds, and would evolve according to deterministic laws, in the spirit of Laplace. This reality might be known to God, but the quantum nature of light would prevent us seeing it, except through a glass darkly.

Einstein's view was what would now be called, a hidden variable theory. Hidden variable theories might seem to be the most obvious way to incorporate the Uncertainty Principle into physics. They form the basis of the mental picture of the universe, held by many scientists, and almost all philosophers of science. But these hidden variable theories are wrong. The British physicist, John Bell, who died recently, devised an experimental test that would distinguish hidden variable theories. When the experiment was carried out carefully, the results were inconsistent with hidden variables. Thus it seems that even God is bound by the Uncertainty Principle, and can not know both the position, and the speed, of a particle. So God does play dice with the universe. All the evidence points to him being an inveterate gambler, who throws the dice on every possible occasion.
From http://www.hawking.org.uk/lectures/dice.html (my emphasis)

Again - if you are going to say the HUP is false, I am going to need some very good evidence (but, you already know that, being a skeptic yourself).
 
Penrich: (Skeptic)
Let me put it to you in this way then: Do the laws of physics (TLOP, as you call them) control every single aspect of biology? A simple YES or NO answer would suffice.

Depends upon what you specifically mean by “biology”.

If you are asking if TLOP decided what your body was going to look like – YES TLOP decided.

If you are asking if TLOP decides everything regarding your existence; if you are asking if TLOP created you utterly and entirely – the answer is NO.

If you are asking if TLOP is controlling your ultimate Fate – She’s judging it, but it’s your Fate.

Einstein was very unhappy about this apparent randomness in nature. His views were summed up in his famous phrase, 'God does not play dice'. He seemed to have felt that the uncertainty was only provisional: but that there was an underlying reality, in which particles would have well defined positions and speeds, and would evolve according to deterministic laws, in the spirit of Laplace. This reality might be known to God, but the quantum nature of light would prevent us seeing it, except through a glass darkly.

Einstein's view was what would now be called, a hidden variable theory. Hidden variable theories might seem to be the most obvious way to incorporate the Uncertainty Principle into physics. They form the basis of the mental picture of the universe, held by many scientists, and almost all philosophers of science. But these hidden variable theories are wrong. The British physicist, John Bell, who died recently, devised an experimental test that would distinguish hidden variable theories. When the experiment was carried out carefully, the results were inconsistent with hidden variables.

Heisenberg was wrong, and then Bell compounded the error. There are two hidden variables – Time and Consciousness. Bell overlooked Both.

If you take a image of sub-atomic particles in a super-collider, then by examining the image you can determine both velocity and position well below the Heisenberg limit, and well below what John Bell swore was impossible! Essentially John Bell proved that you can’t know what the particle is going to do 100% accurately in the future, and based on an incomplete history of the particle you are observing in the present.

Thus it seems that even God is bound by the Uncertainty Principle, and can not know both the position, and the speed, of a particle. So God does play dice with the universe. All the evidence points to him being an inveterate gambler, who throws the dice on every possible occasion.

Yeah, but I’ll tell you something, get your velocity up closer to the speed of light, and I wonder if things don’t start looking a whole lot more deterministic? It only looks like God is doing magic because Her hands are a lot quicker than your minds-eye.
 
Franko said:


Depends upon what you specifically mean by ?biology?.

If you are asking if TLOP decided what your body was going to look like ? YES TLOP decided.

If you are asking if TLOP decides everything regarding your existence; if you are asking if TLOP created you utterly and entirely ? the answer is NO.

If you are asking if TLOP is controlling your ultimate Fate ? She?s judging it, but it?s your Fate.

No - it doesn't depend on what I specifically mean by biology. You claim
Atoms obey the Laws of Physics.
You are made of atoms.
You obey The laws of Physics

All biological entities are made of atoms correct? Thus all of biology is decided by TLOP, correct?
 
Franko said:
Heisenberg was wrong, and then Bell compounded the error. There are two hidden variables ? Time and Consciousness. Bell overlooked Both.

If you take a image of sub-atomic particles in a super-collider, then by examining the image you can determine both velocity and position well below the Heisenberg limit, and well below what John Bell swore was impossible! Essentially John Bell proved that you can?t know what the particle is going to do 100% accurately in the future, and based on an incomplete history of the particle you are observing in the present.
A reference for this please. I am not much of a physicist, so take it easy on me...

But are you not saying in this line "you can?t know what the particle is going to do 100% accurately in the future, and based on an incomplete history of the particle you are observing in the present. " That the HUP is correct - you cannot know what it will do in the future based on what you know about its past (or even present). I only have dull recollections of this stuff in my physics classes, but I thought that basically WAS the HUP?

Intersting as this is - it is actiually irrelevant to the main point of my questions which was how does the law of physics determine neurone function?
 
Again - if you are going to say the HUP is false, I am going to need some very good evidence (but, you already know that, being a skeptic yourself).

Funny that he never provided it.

However, one could have predicted that, methinks.

--J.D.
 
Add to quote you from another ]thread (I'm having trouble keeping up with all of your posts!)

You are just your physical brain, and your physical brain is simply made of atoms (chemicals) which obey the same laws of chemistry that ALL chemicals obey! How do the chemicals in your brain have any more ?free will? than some chemicals in a beaker somewhere?

And the timeless classic
TLOP (God) controls YOU controls CAR

In summary, biology = chemistry = physics. All governed of course, by TLOP. Am I correct?
 

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