Would Religion still continue if....

[Franko]

Penrich:
All biological entities are made of atoms correct? Thus all of biology is decided by TLOP, correct?

Atoms obey TLOP, and you are made of atoms … what do you think?

But are you not saying in this line "you can?t know what the particle is going to do 100% accurately in the future, and based on an incomplete history of the particle you are observing in the present.

Sure if you only have an incomplete history …

" That the HUP is correct –

(HUP = Heisenberg Uncertain (supernatural) Principle)

you cannot know what it will do in the future based on what you know about its past (or even present).

No.

Are you listening to what I am saying, or are you just trying to find any way possible to believe what you want to believe regardless of what is actually True?

I only have dull recollections of this stuff in my physics classes, but I thought that basically WAS the HUP?

Apparently you must have been sleeping through the class when they covered the Copenhagen interpretation of QM. No matter, the A-Theist have it on the list of prohibited books, it’s probably best you let a guy like Dr X (aka De-Bungler) do your thinking for you. Besides It’s not nearly as magical or “romantic” as the Feynman-Star Trek version.

The fact that it has even more evidence than the supernatural and mythic A-Theist version, minus all the bothersome logical contradictions and inconsistencies is probably not even worth me mentioning. Guys like Neils Bohr -- claiming that reality doesn’t exist until you look -- are clearly delusional religious fanatics.

The A-Theists are trying to brainwash you, and you’re letting it happen.

 

[Penrich]

Funny that he never provided it.

However, one could have predicted that, methinks.

--J.D.

Asked twice now - three times and you are out.

EDIT - but posted before I saw his answer above. there is some kind of reference in there...

 

[Penrich]

No-one is brain washing me (I hope...).

I will look into the Coopenhagen Interpretation and the Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen argument. Way too deep for me right now.

But, back to TLOP. I am trying to fathom just what TLOP is responsible for. From your above response, every single chemical reaction, and thus every single enzymatic reaction is dependent on TLOP. Thus, using TLOP, they can be predicted in advance. Otherwise, what use the law, right? Just taking it one step at a time, so I don't get ahead of myself.

 

[Franko]

Penrich:
I will look into the Coopenhagen Interpretation and the Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen argument. Way too deep for me right now.

EPR, isn’t that tough.

Suppose you and I have a magic set of coins. Every time one of them is flipped the other also flips. And if the one coin lands HEADs up, then by necessity the other must land TAILs up.

Of course since this happens instantly (and it is empirically verified) it takes a big whiz all over the speed of light … but who’s really paying attention to insignificant details like this when you have already concluded that God doesn’t exist based on no evidence what-so-ever?

Penrich:
But, back to TLOP. I am trying to fathom just what TLOP is responsible for. From your above response, every single chemical reaction, and thus every single enzymatic reaction is dependent on TLOP. Thus, using TLOP, they can be predicted in advance. Otherwise, what use the law, right? Just taking it one step at a time, so I don't get ahead of myself.

The “Uncertainty” in the Uncertainty principle, really isn’t that uncertain at all. It is actually the interaction (entanglement) between yourself and the LG. It's the interaction of Gravity.

Tell me this, how can John Bell be so sure there are no hidden variables when John Bell has no idea how Quantum Gravity works? Someone could come along and solve QG, and John Bell and Heinyberg could be out on the street faster than the Flat-Earthers after Galileo, or The Aether-advocates post Einstein. When some nitwit claims that some thing will be unknown (or uncertain) for ALL times you just know they are begging to be made a fool of. To even think otherwise is to have a fundamental misunderstanding about what Science really is.

 

[Penrich]

Interesting, but not relevant to the question I asked.

 

[Doctor X]

Penrich:

Asked twice now - three times and you are out.

EDIT - but posted before I saw his answer above. there is some kind of reference in there...

Indeed, reference without any attempt to provide evidence for his claims.

I seem to have a good record predicting his behavior. It generally follows this pattern:

1. Make an unsupported irrelevant claim.
2. Ignore requests for support for irrelevant claim.
3. Respond to repeated requests by insulting the questioners, accusing them of making arguments they did not make, and repeating logical fallacies.
4. Repeat

As noted on other threads, he seems reduced now to just suffering from emotional incontinence. This does not harm anyone other than himself; however, in a sordid way, it is amusing to watch.

You probably did not miss his inability to discuss the neurobiological issues he raised. Perhaps he hoped you had forgotten them.

To extend your analogy, he is rather like a batsman still swinging madly at the plate long after both teams have left, and security has locked up the stadium.

--J.D.

 

[Q-Source]

you and the free willy stoppit

why is it? Confused again. Science explains things ok we dot know how the universe appeared but there are good theories to explain it's beginning?

Pie,

If you weren't so funny, I would be very upset with you for flirting with the Serpent (my boy ).

Your posts keep me laughing and laughing

Q-S

 

[Unas]

Apparently you must have been sleeping through the class when they covered the Copenhagen interpretation of QM. No matter, the A-Theist have it on the list of prohibited books...

What list is that, Franko?

The answer is: None. No such list exists.

Doesn't all this accumulated bad karma from your continual lying bother you in the least, little meat puppet?

 

[Penrich]

The Copenhagen interpretation of QM, my friend. The A-Theists like to pretend that it doesn't exist. It kind of throws a wrench into their whole "magic did it" theory.

I've already said it doesn't actually matter exactly how you define the laws of physics. My question was:

But, back to TLOP. I am trying to fathom just what TLOP is responsible for. From your above response, every single chemical reaction, and thus every single enzymatic reaction is dependent on TLOP. Thus, using TLOP, they can be predicted in advance. Otherwise, what use the law, right?

I am going to assume (unless you respond in the negative) that your answer is thus YES - the TLOP are responsible for every chemical reaction and the outcome can thus be predicted 100% in advance.

 

[Franko]

Penrich:
I am going to assume (unless you respond in the negative) that your answer is thus YES - the TLOP are responsible for every chemical reaction and the outcome can thus be predicted 100% in advance.

Atoms obey The Laws of Physics. Are you claiming otherwise?

Or are you trying to say that you don't believe the present is based on the past?

Listen Penrich, please don't play the little A-Theist game of pretending that Determinism means Omniscience. One doesn't require proof of Omniscience if they are asking for evidence that Determinism is True.

Why do you believe Determinism is False, because some "smart" A-Theist professor told you the Universe was magic at the fundamental level? Did you offer him a sacrifice for that divine knowledge?

 

[Unas]

This post is a response to Franko's post #360098. Should that post vanish, it will mean that Franko has deleted it. He will most likely repost it below, to make it appear as though no one had responded to it. His actions will be yet another demonstration of his fundamental intellectual dishonesty.

Why do you believe Determinism is False...

Franko is lying again. Penrich has not claimed that "Determinism is False".

 

[Penrich]

Atoms obey The Laws of Physics. Are you claiming otherwise?

No - I am asking what you think. You appear unable to answer a direct question though.

Listen Penrich, please don't play the little A-Theist game of pretending that Determinism means Omniscience. One doesn't require proof of Omniscience if they are asking for evidence that Determinism is True.

Why do you believe Determinism is False, because some "smart" A-Theist professor told you the Universe was magic at the fundamental level? Did you offer him a sacrifice for that divine knowledge?

I hate condescension, especially from one who claims willing to explain, but then is completely unable to do so. For all you know, I may be the smart University professor...

My understanding of TLOP as defined by you is that everything that happens is determined by TLOP. One who is able to COMPLETELY comprehend TLOP is able to predict with unflailing accuracy everything that will happen in the universe. Such a hypothetical being is what I understand your Logical Godess to be. Am I right so far?

OK - so assuming I am correct (I hate to "assume" all the time, but in the absence of direct conformation or denial, it is the best I can do) every chemical process, every biological process is controlled by TLOP. i.e. TLOP are deterministic. (Where did I mention omni-anything in this thread?). You as much said so when you said

If you are asking if TLOP decided what your body was going to look like ? YES TLOP decided.

i.e. TLOP determines gene expression, protein levels, enzyme activity etc etc etc.

Thus --- everything can be predicted given enough knowledge of TLOP.

My question to you is very simple: where does biological variation fit into this?

 

[Franko]

My understanding of TLOP as defined by you is that everything that happens is determined by TLOP. One who is able to COMPLETELY comprehend TLOP is able to predict with unflailing accuracy everything that will happen in the universe. Such a hypothetical being is what I understand your Logical Godess to be. Am I right so far?

More or less, but it is more complicated then you have it here.

Essentially the LG controls 3 out of the 4 forces completely. The 4th force (Gravity) binds Her exactly the same as it binds us.

… well, not EXACTLY, the same. In the same way that You or I understand Electromagnetism far better than a Dog does, the LG comprehends Gravity far better than you or I do. Really, the LG’s superior knowledge of Gravity (Time) is what makes Her so much more powerful then us. Her knowledge of Gravity is what allowed her to create the other 3 forces (They are all based on Gravity (used Gravity as a model))

OK - so assuming I am correct (I hate to "assume" all the time, but in the absence of direct conformation or denial, it is the best I can do)

Hey, listen Unas, Dr. X whatever you are calling yourself now. If you don’t want to play the game, don’t think that I am going to play myself and let you watch.

every chemical process, every biological process is controlled by TLOP. i.e. TLOP are deterministic. (Where did I mention omni-anything in this thread?). You as much said so when you said

Everything is Deterministic, correct.

i.e. TLOP determines gene expression, protein levels, enzyme activity etc etc etc.

Thus --- everything can be predicted given enough knowledge of TLOP.

My question to you is very simple: where does biological variation fit into this?

It’s the nature of the system to evolve. A consciousness left alone in Time doesn’t just sit there doing nothing. It is constantly thinking, constantly pondering new ideas, constantly growing.

Either that, or it withers and dies.

 

[Doctor X]

Give him no quarter!

TallyHO!!

Hey, listen Unas, Dr. X whatever you . . . . are calling yourself now. If you don?t want to play the game, don?t think that I am going to play myself and let you watch.

Indeed for the Bigotted Coward et Liar et Hypocrit is far too busy fleeing across the threads.

FASTER!!! Faster!!! The hounds are nearly upon you!!

I mean, at least tried to make some sport out of it.

--J.D.

 

[Doctor X]

HA! HE IS TRAP'D!!!

Surround'd and expos'd will he NOW address the Child. . .

. . . or will he show his yellow tail again and run further. . . .

Hurry up, it is hard to keep the hounds at bay.

--J.D.

 

[Franko]

Ahh, the A-Theist Trolls are out in force today.

Ohh, I guess it is all my fault for NOT being another brainwashed hypocritical A-Theist moron.

When will I learn?

I am going to concentrate real hard and try and believe in "free willy" based on no evidence.

Lets see how I do ...

(thinking ... thinking ... thinking ... thinking ... thinking ...)

I don't think it's working ...

(thinking ... thinking ... thinking ... thinking ...

 

[Doctor X]

LOOK OUT!!! THEY NIP AT YOUR "HEELS"

. . . or hoofs . . . or paws . . . or . . . have you ever considered actually cleaning your "feet?"

May attract other things than voles . . . perhaps the same species or something.

Nevertheless:

HE AVOIDS THE CHOICE of the CHILD!!!!

Why?

Does the thinking hurt so much?

That he cannot demonstrate critical thinking remains his error and not that of anyone else.

--J.D.

 

[Franko]

you STILL haven’t presented ANY evidence for your religious beliefs, and since you post NOTHING but the same spam over and over again, what do you want me to say? If you have an actual argument for your religious beliefs – some evidence – I’ll be happy to discuss it with you, but your spam doesn’t really require anything other than me restating the obvious. I realize you don’t like your hypocrisy exposed Doctor X/De-Bungler, perhaps you should run along then? I honestly don’t know why you keep non-responding to all of my posts?

Actually, I do know why … It’s because you are a severely brainwashed religious fanatic with no evidence for his beliefs.

What is your evidence for the existence of “free will”?
Doctor X fanatical A-Theist: NONE, but I devoutly and dogmatically believe in “free will” anyway!

What is your evidence for the non-existence of “god”?
Doctor X fanatical A-Theist: NONE, but I devoutly and dogmatically believe there is NO “god”, and anyone who believes otherwise is a credulous Theist moron!

--------------------------

What is your evidence for the non-existence of “free will”?
Franko, Logical Deist: Atoms obey TLOP; You are made of Atoms; YOU OBEY TLOP!

What is your evidence for the existence of “god”?
Franko, Logical Deist: TLOP (“god”) makes/controls YOU makes/controls CAR.
In the same way that YOU are more conscious then a CAR, TLOP is more conscious then YOU.

When are you going to explain what the "YOU" is that is making the "decisions"??? I thought that according to Materialism there was no "YOU"? I thought that "YOU" were nothing more then a collection of Atoms?

Why do you believe that the atoms in your brain aren't controlled by the laws of Physics, Unas? You never seem to want to explain this? What are you hiding A-Theist? Are you embarrassed to tell us what you believe?

 

[LucyR]

Essentially the LG controls 3 out of the 4 forces completely. The 4th force (Gravity) binds Her exactly the same as it binds us.

I was under the impression there were at most only three distinct forces, viz. the strong nuclear force, the electro-weak force, and gravity.

This total may have been further reduced in recent years. I have however, lost touch with this branch of physics. Are there any genuine theoreticians out there who'd like to comment?

 

[Unas]

Watch him run, folks...

Essentially the LG controls 3 out of the 4 forces completely.

A simple question that you should have no problem answering, Franko:

What is the empirically verifiable evidence for the existence of the "Logical Goddess"?