“Woke”

[d4m10n]

The one you brought up here.

That's not a theory; be specific.

You know, the whole "d4m10n can't remember what he said yesterday" tactic is just a piss poor way to debate. It's in writing.

Then just quote my theory.

 

[wareyin]

That's not a theory; be specific.

Then just quote my theory.

The specific example you brought up which you theorized would demonstrate the claim Darat was contesting. Anyone clicking on the link can see that your "answer" was theorizing that your example would fit the claim.

Again, it's right there. Click the link, read what you wrote in response to what you quoted, and quite trying to pretend you didn't say/don't remember saying what you said.

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

The specific example you brought up which you theorized would demonstrate the claim Darat was contesting. Anyone clicking on the link can see that your "answer" was theorizing that your example would fit the claim.

Again, it's right there. Click the link, read what you wrote in response to what you quoted, and quite trying to pretend you didn't say/don't remember saying what you said.

When I clicked on the link you gave my reaction was "what is wareyin thinking? That's not even remotely a theory. He must have meant another post". It's not a theory. It's a suggestion for what evidence should be provided to support the claim. What you should have said is "why, do you think that would be good evidence for the claim?". And, to hopefully cut out a step here, someone will likely then say "what? Why wouldn't it be?".

So why do you think his suggestion for evidence to support the claim is an improper request? And have you since submitted evidence of the claim?

 

[wareyin]

When I clicked on the link you gave my reaction was "what is wareyin thinking? That's not even remotely a theory. He must have meant another post". It's not a theory. It's a suggestion for what evidence should be provided to support the claim. What you should have said is "why, do you think that would be good evidence for the claim?". And, to hopefully cut out a step here, someone will likely then say "what? Why wouldn't it be?".

So why do you think his suggestion for evidence to support the claim is an improper request? And have you since submitted evidence of the claim?

Jebus. He suggested that his example is evidence to support the claim that CSJ is the dominant theory in K-12 schools. His theory is that his example supports that theory. He further stated that his example "is precisely the sort of thing I'd expect to see if CSJ was beginning to take root in primary schools." If you can't recognize a theory when stated "I expect to see x happen if y is true", then I don't know how to help you.

Also, I haven't said his suggestion was an improper request, I've said his example disproves the idea he was trying to support. And why the **** would I submit evidence of a disproven claim that jt512 made? Have you gotten confused about who said what?

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

You're not helping me understand what the heck you are badgering d4m10n about. Do you have some on topic complaint?

Your phrasing is not helping at all. The post you called out is not a "theory" and even if it was your statements aren't helping understand what issue you have with it. The post you called out would more properly be called an implication but even if you had used that word it probably wouldn't help explain what your issue is.

Forget all that though, try this: What suggestions do you have to address Darat's question?

 

[wareyin]

You're not helping me understand what the heck you are badgering d4m10n about. Do you have some on topic complaint?

Your phrasing is not helping at all. The post you called out is not a "theory" and even if it was your statements aren't helping understand what issue you have with it. The post you called out would more properly be called an implication but even if you had used that word it probably wouldn't help explain what your issue is.

Forget all that though, try this: What suggestions do you have to address Darat's question?

Sorry, you're working so hard to parse the sentences that you can't follow the conversation.

Why the **** do I need to address Darat's question?

I showed that d4m10n's theory that 'a single secondary school having a single privilege walk and then being punished for it is what we should see if CSJ had established a foothold^* in the public k-12 school system' was wrong, in and of itself, what with the whole "and was punished for it" being evidence against it being accepted practice.


^*and this is even accepting d4m10n's goalpost move from the initial 'this single school having a privilege walk and then being punished for it' would be evidence that CSJ is the dominant worldview in k-12 answer he gave to Darat's question.

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

Sigh. I think you're going out of your way to make d4m10n wrong about something and confusing me, and maybe others, about what your point is.

You are mis-stating d4m10n's claim and he has already clarified it for you. He didn't say it would prove the entire point in his original post and he has later explicitly said that a single instance can't.

But I think the point that I (and Darat and d4m10n I think?) are making is that we are not even getting single good examples of this thing that is supposed to be dominant.

 

[wareyin]

Sigh. I think you're going out of your way to make d4m10n wrong about something and confusing me, and maybe others, about what your point is.

You are mis-stating d4m10n's claim and he has already clarified it for you. He didn't say it would prove the entire point in his original post and he has later explicitly said that a single instance can't.

But I think the point that I (and Darat and d4m10n I think?) are making is that we are not even getting single good examples of this thing that is supposed to be dominant.

d4m10n offered this to Darat as a good example of this thing (CSJ) that is supposed to be dominant! This is why I pointed out that you aren't following the conversation

This was before he walked his claim back to this example being what he'd expect to see (which is a theory) if CSJ even has a foothold. Which is presupposing that CSJ has a foothold (more of his theory, and wrong to boot) and ignores that elements of the example d4m10n offered (the punishment) disprove d4m10n's theory of CSJ being accepted.

 

[d4m10n]

The specific example you brought up which you theorized would demonstrate the claim Darat was contesting.

No, the example I brought up would be a piece of evidence consistent with the claim Darat was contesting, because it was a good example of CSJ in action originating from the schools themselves.

Read more carefully and stop leaping to conclusions, please.

...ignores that elements of the example d4m10n offered (the punishment) disprove d4m10n's theory of CSJ being accepted.

Punishment originating from the state legislature tells us nothing about the paradigms operating within schools.

 

[wareyin]

No, the example I brought up would be a piece of evidence consistent with the claim Darat was contesting, because it was a good example of CSJ in action originating from the schools themselves.

Read more carefully and stop leaping to conclusions, please.

First: no, your initial post with that example never said it was consistent with, you presented that example as evidence for the claim. Then, later you walked it back to "precisely what you'd expect to see" for a watered down version of jt512's claim.

And I do note your current expansion of the single class in a single school into "the schools". It's not like we haven't seen this tactic of using an example that doesn't really prove your point, then imagining that despite this example not actually proving your point there are other unknown examples which totally would prove your point, then switching back to the only known example and not only ignoring how it actually disproves your point but magically multiplying it into (in your mind) multiple good examples. You use it in every one of your right wing culture war threads.

Punishment originating from the state legislature tells us nothing about the paradigms operating within schools.

No matter how often you dishonestly conflate the Board of Education with the State Legislature, you are still wrong.

 

[Suddenly]

Why would you even ask? That' a rhetorical question. I'm done with you here.

Try it this way:

Do you want to take any actions to end racism, or are you of the opinion that ignoring this problem will make it go away?

 

[d4m10n]

d4m10n offered this to Darat as a good example of this thing (CSJ) that is supposed to be dominant!

Which isn't the same thing as saying one example proves dominance. My question was what sort of examples should count.

First: no, your initial post with that example never said it was consistent with, you presented that example as evidence for the claim.

Wrong. I was asking what sort of evidence would support the claim that CSJ ideology could be seen in school curricula.

Then, later you walked it back to "precisely what you'd expect to see" for a watered down version of jt512's claim.

This is correct, except for the walk back part. You perceive a walk back only b/c you've assumed too much in the first place.

And I do note your current expansion of the single class in a single school into "the schools".

My lone example is just that. If we were to canvas all "the schools" we'd see several more examples.

It's not like we haven't seen this tactic of using an example that doesn't really prove your point, then imagining that despite this example not actually proving your point there are other unknown examples which totally would prove your point, then switching back to the only known example and not only ignoring how it actually disproves your point but magically multiplying it into (in your mind) multiple good examples.

How many examples would be necessary to prove that CSJ is changing curricula?

You use it in every one of your right wing culture war threads.

You've got this bizarre habit of making everything into a right-wing vs. left-wing culture war battle and it says much more about you than the culture itself.

No matter how often you dishonestly conflate the Board of Education with the State Legislature, you are still wrong.

No matter how often you blithely ignore the the BoE is legally bound to follow the law, you are still missing the point that this rule originated in the legal system, not the school system.

 

[wareyin]

Which isn't the same thing as saying one example proves dominance. My question was what sort of examples should count.

Wrong. I was asking what sort of evidence would support the claim that CSJ ideology could be seen in school curricula.

Your post was not a question. Remember, when you can't remember what you wrote, you can go back and read it so you aren't making obviously false claims about what you did or didn't say.

This is correct, except for the walk back part. You perceive a walk back only b/c you've assumed too much in the first place.

No, I read what you wrote, not what you're now pretending to have written.

My lone example is just that. If we were to canvas all "the schools" we'd see several more examples.

And there's you assuming that despite your inability to find more examples, they exist and prove your theory. Again.

How many examples would be necessary to prove that CSJ is changing curricula?

More than the zero you have, at least.

You've got this bizarre habit of making everything into a right-wing vs. left-wing culture war battle and it says much more about you than the culture itself.

Yes, I have singlehandedly created the right wing media empire which is feeding you these false narratives about the culture war.

No matter how often you blithely ignore the the BoE is legally bound to follow the law, you are still missing the point that this rule originated in the legal system, not the school system.

The law originated in the legal system. The judgement that the school system had violated the law and the decision to punish came from the BoE. The BoE is not the state legislature.

 

[d4m10n]

Your post was not a question.

Wasn't it though.

More than the zero you have, at least.

Why are you discounting the privilege walk as an example of CSJ in action? Peggy McIntosh is cited in basically any CRT textbook.

Yes, I have singlehandedly created the right wing media empire which is feeding you these false narratives about the culture war.

If I've cited right wing media sources, I'm happy to apologize and retract. Good luck finding them.

The judgement that the school system had violated the law and the decision to punish came from the BoE.

As I recall, they said something about the spirit of the law. Were they wrong to take that approach?

 

[wareyin]

Wasn't it though.

As demonstrated, yes. I agree with your statement that it wasn't.

Why are you discounting the privilege walk as an example of CSJ in action? Peggy McIntosh is cited in basically any CRT textbook.

Peggy McIntosh writes in English, so therefore all English classes are also CRT, CSJ, and any other of your manufactroversy scare acronyms, too?

If I've cited right wing media sources, I'm happy to apologize and retract. Good luck finding them.

A mainstream media source reporting on claims made by your right wing scare mongers would not have a story without your right wing media sources first making up this issue.

As I recall, they said something about the spirit of the law. Were they wrong to take that approach?

What exactly did they say about the spirit of the law? As far as I can tell, if an organization is free to consider the spirit of a law, then by definition that organization has discretion in applying any punishments under that law.

 

[dudalb]

If you say racism and bigotry are BAD, you are woke in the right's opinion.

 

[jt512]

If you say racism and bigotry are BAD, you are woke in the right's opinion.

If I thought it would do any good, I would ask for evidence of that claim.

 

[theprestige]

If you say racism and bigotry are BAD, you are woke in the right's opinion.

If you're trying to get social credit by saying such things that everyone already agrees with, or you're trying to win an argument by poisoning the well or ad hominem (ETA: or begging the question) with such things, then yeah, you're woke. And anyone on "the left" who doesn't call you out on it is just as woke as you are.

 

[Susheel]

If you're trying to get social credit by saying such things that everyone already agrees with, or you're trying to win an argument by poisoning the well or ad hominem (ETA: or begging the question) with such things, then yeah, you're woke. And anyone on "the left" who doesn't call you out on it is just as woke as you are.

And...how is this a bad thing? Showing empathy for others?

 

[Lithrael]

“Eating kittens is just plain.. plain wrong! And no one should do it EVER!”

(TBF though that WAS in direct response to genuine pressure to eat a kitten so maybe it wasn’t woke but it’s probably still virtue signaling.)