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“Woke”

uke2se said:
Do you think that's the definition conservatives use when they complain about "wokeness"? Seems kind of aggressive, not to say authoritarian to make laws trying to limit people from being condescending virtue signalling asses?
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I don't know what conservatives believe woke actually means. But I do have friends who are democratic socialists who have been accused of being "insufficiently woke". Whatever the **** that means.
 
Gulliver Foyle said:
There hasn't been anything of interest written by Cohen in the last 20 years, he's a stirling example of trot gravitating to thatcherism after the USSR collapsed, while still trying to claim he's a socialist.
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You prove his points beautifully. No argument, just try to smear the heretic.
 
d4m10n said:
Can I safely assume you've changed the subject from Freddie deBoer here?

I don't believe he's ever not argued from the left.
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I don't know who he is. The definition he provided isn't helpful and would be more useful (though not perfect) as a definition of cancel culture. He's also completely wrong if he's not attempting to define what the right think "woke" means. Woke has a definition, and the definition that DeSantis' lawyers gave in court is closer to it.
 
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SOme people find it impossible to accept that stupidity, oppresion and evil can come from both sides of the political spectrum. It is all from the OTHER side, the side they don't support.
 
dudalb said:
SOme people find it impossible to accept that stupidity, oppresion and evil can come from both sides of the political spectrum. It is all from the OTHER side, the side they don't support.
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100 million killed by China.

15 million killed by USSR.
 
dudalb said:
SOme people find it impossible to accept that stupidity, oppresion and evil can come from both sides of the political spectrum. It is all from the OTHER side, the side they don't support.
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And some people want to "bothsides" things so badly that they ignore which side has by far the vast majority of stupidity, desire to oppress, and evil to constantly remind people that despite current reality, in an alternate universe the side currently not chock full of oppression stupidity and evil here could be there.
 
Elaedith said:
A piece by Nick Cohen which might be of interest.

Wokeism: The movement that dare not speak its name
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He's trivially wrong and really aught to know it. His contention is that 'woke' is a movement but it won't call itself that to hide from scrutiny while his examples and own writing shows that it isn't a movement anyway even in the way he encapsulates it.

"No one reading it can deny that there has been a jolting cultural change in the US left over the past 10-15 years. I cannot see why progressives would deny it, unless they want to place their ideology beyond the normal bounds of debate."

The highlighted is true, limiting it to 'the left' is not just dishonest, it's startling stupid. The reason the silly criticisms (as opposed to ones with more merit which don't gain as much traction because they're not nearly problematic enough to alarm) of 'woke' gain traction even among 'liberals' and 'moderates' is because so much of it is just old people being old people. Yes, culture changed and that makes old people so mad as it always has. I say that as an 'old' person now myself. I'm probably one of the youngest posters here and I'll be forty this year, and the number of things I have to explain to people my own age about the culture of anyone under thirty in the US is just staggering.

Some old people who used to be 'progressive' and 'left' just don't keep up and become cranks and one or more subjects. Suddenly that thing is 'woke'. It is as simple as not accepting new evidence. That's it. That's the game. There's a lot of hedging and hawing about 'no, you don't understand, this little nuanced thing is the real reason the experts and society at large are wrong about X, I'm not an extremeist who just rejects it all!' Yeah, just let you be wrong about that thing, and if it's less obviously wrong than the people killing over it, it's reasonable to be wrong about.

Nick there shows how little he understands when he comes so close to self-awareness with these lines.

"Two ideas can be true simultaneously. A new and distinct “woke” ideology developed after 2010 in American academia, and boorish right-wingers use “woke” to mean “whatever I don’t like”. "

Sure Nick, 'woke' doesn't really mean 'whatever the right wingers don't like', it means, 'whatever non-right wing thing you don't like.' That's so much better.
 
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wareyin said:
And some people want to "bothsides" things so badly that they ignore which side has by far the vast majority of stupidity, desire to oppress, and evil to constantly remind people that despite current reality, in an alternate universe the side currently not chock full of oppression stupidity and evil here could be there.
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Some people think the national movement to ignore gender and allow men to use women's bathrooms, is the biggest form of stupidity infecting the USA.

Some people think that ignoring the violence and distruction done in the BLM protests but focusing on January 6, shows incredible hypocrisy.

And some folks say they got everything backwards.
 
Hercules56 said:
Some people think the national movement to ignore gender and allow men to use women's bathrooms, is the biggest form of stupidity infecting the USA.
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Despite what your far right news sources are telling you, there isn't a national movement to ignore gender or to allow men to use women's bathrooms.

Hercules56 said:
Some people think that ignoring the violence and distruction done in the BLM protests but focusing on January 6, shows incredible hypocrisy.
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Despite what your far right news sources tell you, there was very little violence or destruction in the BLM protests, and virtually all that did occur was not done by the BLM protestors. 97% of BLM protests were peaceful. 100% of the coup attempts on Jan 6th were violent.

Further, despite the spin your far right news sources have put on it, Jan 6th was an attempt to destroy our democracy. It's a much bigger deal for the country than the BLM protests were.

I find your BLM protests being violent and destructive claims quite interesting given your recent claim to have protested them yourself. Are you speaking from personal experience?

Hercules56 said:
And some folks say they got everything backwards.
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Some people really do have everything backwards. I think an over-reliance on faulty news sources like the NY Post or Fox News will do that to people.
 
wareyin said:
Despite what your far right news sources are telling you, there isn't a national movement to ignore gender or to allow men to use women's bathrooms.



Despite what your far right news sources tell you, there was very little violence or destruction in the BLM protests, and virtually all that did occur was not done by the BLM protestors. 97% of BLM protests were peaceful. 100% of the coup attempts on Jan 6th were violent.

Further, despite the spin your far right news sources have put on it, Jan 6th was an attempt to destroy our democracy. It's a much bigger deal for the country than the BLM protests were.

I find your BLM protests being violent and destructive claims quite interesting given your recent claim to have protested them yourself. Are you speaking from personal experience?



Some people really do have everything backwards. I think an over-reliance on faulty news sources like the NY Post or Fox News will do that to people.
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The BLM protests that I went to were of course not violent, as I do not support violence/arson in order to achieve a political goal, I consider such to be a form of terrorism.

I'm sure there were tens of thousands of individual BLM protest events, some very large some very small. However the amount of damage done by the several protests that were violent probably count in billions of dollars.
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rule 12 violation removed
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Hercules56 said:
The BLM protests that I went to were of course not violent, as I do not support violence/arson in order to achieve a political goal, I consider such to be a form of terrorism.
I'm sure there were tens of thousands of individual BLM protest events, some very large some very small. However the amount of damage done by the several protests that were violent probably count in billions of dollars.
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rule 12 violation removed
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If we're balancing Hercules56's estimate (based off nothing but sensationalistic Fox News opinion pieces that his own personal experience shows were exaggerations or lies) of "probably" billions of damage against American democracy, well obviously who needs democracy, huh?
 
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wareyin said:
If we're balancing Hercules56's estimate (based off nothing but sensationalistic Fox News opinion pieces that his own personal experience shows were exaggerations or lies) of "probably" billions of damage against American democracy, well obviously who needs democracy, huh?
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It's sad how you think all of my news sources are sensationalist right wing, but I guess you're just trying to bait me.

https://thehill.com/homenews/news/5...-sparks-at-least-1-billion-in-damages-report/

A company called Property Claim Services (PCS) has tracked insurance claims pertaining to civil disorder for the past 70 years, and says the arson, vandalism and looting from civil unrest in 2020 will incur up to $2 billion of paid insurance claims, Axios reported this week.


And what does any of this have to do with democracy? Was the rioting and looting and arson all in the name of democracy?

Huh.
 
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Hercules56 said:
It's sad how you think all of my news sources are sensationalist right wing, but I guess you're just trying to bait me.

https://thehill.com/homenews/news/5...-sparks-at-least-1-billion-in-damages-report/

A company called Property Claim Services (PCS) has tracked insurance claims pertaining to civil disorder for the past 70 years, and says the arson, vandalism and looting from civil unrest in 2020 will incur up to $2 billion of paid insurance claims, Axios reported this week.


And what does any of this have to do with democracy? Was the rioting and looting and arson all in the name of democracy?

Huh.
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Your reading comprehension is astounding, Herc.
First, congrats on googling up a non-right wing source after I called you on your dependence on them. It's better than your usual Fox News and NY Post links.
Second, if you don't understand how democracy and January 6 are related yet, this is once again attributable to how your far right news sources have been misleading you.
 
wareyin said:
Your reading comprehension is astounding, Herc.
First, congrats on googling up a non-right wing source after I called you on your dependence on them. It's better than your usual Fox News and NY Post links.
Second, if you don't understand how democracy and January 6 are related yet, this is once again attributable to how your far right news sources have been misleading you.
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Yes the January 6th violence was a direct threat to democracy. However the violence done during the BLM protests had nothing to do with democracy.
 
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