Wisconsin Voter ID

WildCat said:
Doesn't have to be a driver's license, just a government-issued ID that has a photo and address on it and indicates the holder is a US citizen.
Click to expand...
And how is that proof one hasn't committed a felony, or hasn't registered to vote, or is ineligible in another way?

Before voter ID laws, one still had to register (hint: non-citizens couldn't register), so for any in person fraud to occur, the person committing in person voter fraud would have to know the person being impersonated was registered, where their poll place was, and that they had not and would not be voting. There's an awful lot of risk involved for one fraudulent vote.
 
wareyin said:
And how is that proof one hasn't committed a felony, or hasn't registered to vote, or is ineligible in another way?
Click to expand...
How would one end up on the registered voter list otherwise?

wareyin said:
Before voter ID laws, one still had to register (hint: non-citizens couldn't register),
Click to expand...
Non-citizens aren't supposed to register, but there's nothing to prevent them from registering illegally. They're not supposed to work without a permit either, or enter the country illegally.

wareyin said:
so for any in person fraud to occur, the person committing in person voter fraud would have to know the person being impersonated was registered, where their poll place was, and that they had not and would not be voting. There's an awful lot of risk involved for one fraudulent vote.
Click to expand...
No, they just have to register to vote when they're not eligible to vote. Then go vote. The risk of getting caught is nearly zero.
 
WildCat said:
How would one end up on the registered voter list otherwise?


Non-citizens aren't supposed to register, but there's nothing to prevent them from registering illegally. They're not supposed to work without a permit either, or enter the country illegally.


No, they just have to register to vote when they're not eligible to vote. Then go vote. The risk of getting caught is nearly zero.
Click to expand...
Do you have any evidence that non-citizens are fraudulently registering to vote? You do know that at least some states have been scrutinizing their registered voter rolls, so evidence of non citizens having been registered should be available.
 
wareyin said:
Do you have any evidence that non-citizens are fraudulently registering to vote?
Click to expand...

Of course not. The voter fraud in the USA is a conspiracy theory that needs no evidence to believe and actually has excuses as to why there is no evidence.
 
thaiboxerken said:
Of course not. The voter fraud in the USA is a conspiracy theory that needs no evidence to believe and actually has excuses as to why there is no evidence.
Click to expand...

At last check, voter fraud does occur. Generally not in significant amounts, overall, though. The part that matters, though, is that intentional in person voter fraud seems to be practically non-existent in the first place, before getting to the large scale, organized fraud that would actually need to be the case to affect much of anything.
 
Aridas said:
At last check, voter fraud does occur. Generally not in significant amounts, overall, though. The part that matters, though, is that intentional in person voter fraud seems to be practically non-existent in the first place, before getting to the large scale, organized fraud that would actually need to be the case to affect much of anything.
Click to expand...

It is practically non-existent. I only can think of one case, when Mitt Romney voted in two different States. However, voter ID wouldn't address this or any of the tiny amounts of fraud that does happen.
 
Voter ID is just a ploy by republicans to try to win elections through voter suppresion with bankrupt candidates and ideas. It will eventually come back to bite them once honest conservatives catch on.

A comprehensive investigation of voter impersonation finds 31 credible incidents out of one billion ballots cast

First, the court cited the idea that ID laws could enhance public confidence--that is, in theory, the laws might make us feel better about elections in that they might provide some security theater. It turns out, though, that this effect is hard to spot.

People who think elections are being stolen, and people who think they’re not, each hold on to that opinion no matter what the governing ID rules in their area.
Click to expand...
 
mgidm86 said:
These laws would also do nothing to stop fraudulent mail-in ballots. Stopping voter fraud needs to be done at the registration level, not at the polls.
Click to expand...

Exactly this. In-person voter fraud is practically nonexistent. I am more concerned with the possibility of absentee voter fraud, as well as the possibility of fraud via e-voting when that becomes more widespread.
 
WildCat said:
Doesn't even address the issue of ineligible persons voting. thaiboxerken says there's people voting who work but don't have an ID. Guess who makes up the bulk of that group?
Click to expand...

Feel free to prove your Assertion That inelgible people are voting.
 
Last edited:
Hmmm, next time I see a petition sign up with voter registration, I'll have to watch for ID. But here in California, I think the ID is a bit subtle- many people register at the DMV, so do ID themselves. Then, if voting absentee, mailing you your ballot validates your address. And showing up at the poll with the 'voter information pamphlet' would also validate an address.

But IIRC, Ca. does issue driver licenses to illegal immigrants. IDs too I suppose. I wonder whether they are marked "noncitizen" or some such? I'll have to ask the next cop or bouncer I talk to.
 
thaiboxerken said:
Feel free to prove your Assertion That inelgible people are voting.
Click to expand...
I've already said multiple times in this thread that the only way to do that is audit the voter registration rolls to see if those registered are eligible to vote, and nobody has ever done that and I doubt it will ever be done for a variety of reasons.

casebro said:
Hmmm, next time I see a petition sign up with voter registration, I'll have to watch for ID. But here in California, I think the ID is a bit subtle- many people register at the DMV, so do ID themselves. Then, if voting absentee, mailing you your ballot validates your address. And showing up at the poll with the 'voter information pamphlet' would also validate an address.

But IIRC, Ca. does issue driver licenses to illegal immigrants. IDs too I suppose. I wonder whether they are marked "noncitizen" or some such? I'll have to ask the next cop or bouncer I talk to.
Click to expand...
No ID required to register to vote in Illinois, it's a 100% honor system.

My aldercreature avoided a runoff after several hundred absentee ballots magically appeared several days after the election which put her a few votes over the required 50%+1, imagine that!
 
WildCat said:
That would work too. Either at the polls or during registration, either/or. But I'm not a big fan of the honor system currently in place.
Click to expand...


I think the registration process is the place to stop voter fraud. If you aren't on the list at the polling station, you should not be able to vote. If you have a fake ID and vote under another registered voter's name, then a red flag would pop up if the actual person later came in to vote, or had already voted.

Getting a fake ID is easy, but it wouldn't help somebody that isn't already registered and on the list.

Even if you had no ID, only one person can vote for any given name on the list. There can't be much fraud at the polls if that is the case. And again, mail-ins would not be affected.

The hoops that need to be jumped through in order to vote only make sense during the registration process.
 
casebro said:
Hmmm, next time I see a petition sign up with voter registration, I'll have to watch for ID. But here in California, I think the ID is a bit subtle- many people register at the DMV, so do ID themselves. Then, if voting absentee, mailing you your ballot validates your address. And showing up at the poll with the 'voter information pamphlet' would also validate an address.

But IIRC, Ca. does issue driver licenses to illegal immigrants. IDs too I suppose. I wonder whether they are marked "noncitizen" or some such? I'll have to ask the next cop or bouncer I talk to.
Click to expand...
I don't think that any ID is required to register to vote in CA. As I recall, when I registered all I had to do is sign the form stating under penalty of perjury that I really truly was eligible to vote.
 
Last edited:
bonzombiekitty said:
IIRC, Arlen Spector from PA had the same sort of issue. He eventually changed parties after 42 years of being a Republican. Though he did start his career as a Democrat.
Click to expand...

That happens in both parties. Just look what happened to Joe Lieberman. Here was a Democrat that was mainstream Democrat party almost down the line. He supports partial birth abortion, higher taxes, more government control over every aspect of "the little people's" lives. The perfect Democrat. Mainstream enough to be the vice presidential candidate in 2000.

Except he also believes that the United States and Israel have a right to self defense. So obviously out of the party he goes.

And the only reason Arlen Spector changed parties is because he believed, incorrectly it turned out, that he had a better chance to win as a Democrat.
 
WildCat said:
I've already said multiple times in this thread that the only way to do that is audit the voter registration rolls to see if those registered are eligible to vote, and nobody has ever done that and I doubt it will ever be done for a variety of reasons.
Click to expand...

Like most conspiracy theories, you have excuses as to why there is no evidence to support your belief.
 
cmikes said:
That happens in both parties. Just look what happened to Joe Lieberman. Here was a Democrat that was mainstream Democrat party almost down the line. He supports partial birth abortion, higher taxes, more government control over every aspect of "the little people's" lives. The perfect Democrat. Mainstream enough to be the vice presidential candidate in 2000.

Except he also believes that the United States and Israel have a right to self defense. So obviously out of the party he goes.

And the only reason Arlen Spector changed parties is because he believed, incorrectly it turned out, that he had a better chance to win as a Democrat.
Click to expand...
True enough, it happens in one way or another on both sides when ideas clash, but do remember that Lieberman did not change parties because he was excluded by the party or threatened with the loss of committee seats. He lost a primary on the basis of delegate votes after a party endorsement, because of his pro-war position. Of course you can count that as a sort of party abandonment, but if so it was the party's voters, not its machine, that forsook him. He judged (rightly it's clear) that he had a better chance to win an election than his party's official candidate, relying on his long standing reputation for integrity and on overwhelming support from Republican voters. But he has continued to vote with the Democratic caucus and held his Democratic committee appointments even after having come out in support of McCain for president.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom