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Windows 11

grmcdorman said:
Huh, doesn't include my AMD FX-6300 (released ca. 2012) - which has otherwise aged very well. Seems there will be a lot of existing systems that won't be able to upgrade. Motherboard has a TPM header of some flavour, although - leaving aside the CPU issue - I'm not at all enamoured of the idea of needing to buy extra hardware just to upgrade.

Having said that, at some point Microsoft needs to start dropping support for very old hardware; it doesn't help the product development and stability by keeping in support for it. No matter where they draw that line, there's going to be people unhappy about it.
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I am not sure why people would want to upgrade. My idea is to keep the software I already have until I want to upgrade my hardware. Then I buy new hardware, with the latest software. I must admit though, I bought new hardware because Microsoft dropped support for XP, so I bought a computer with Windows 7, which then got upgraded to Windows 10. Then when they drop support for Windows 10 I might buy my next computer. My current one would then be over 10 years old and had only one major repair to replace the non-working hard drive.
 
gnome said:
Hey, that's the same as mine. I've never gone so long without feeling a need to upgrade.
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My system is about seven years old now. I upgraded from an i3 to an i7 which was reasonably cheap and easy. It runs well with NVME SSD. No TPM at all, though. This will give me an excuse to upgrade but Win10 is fine for now. My main focus is being able to run apps. The Windows upgrade won't be important like the upgrade to XP or Win7 was where there are tangible benefits.

The only thing that really interests me is the better security and Android app support.
 
a_unique_person said:
My system is about seven years old now. I upgraded from an i3 to an i7 which was reasonably cheap and easy. It runs well with NVME SSD. No TPM at all, though. This will give me an excuse to upgrade but Win10 is fine for now. My main focus is being able to run apps. The Windows upgrade won't be important like the upgrade to XP or Win7 was where there are tangible benefits.

The only thing that really interests me is the better security and Android app support.
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Get a Samsung smartphone and you can sort of have that in Windows 10.
 
rjh01 said:
Make sure that your computer has Trusted Platform Module (TPM) version 2.0, which came out in October 2014. That was only a few years ago.

Edit. Plus a supported CPU. These are listed here
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/wi...supported/windows-11-supported-amd-processors
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/wi...pported/windows-11-supported-intel-processors
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/wi...rted/windows-11-supported-qualcomm-processors
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Looks like I wouldn't be able to upgrade, despite my processor being a beast when I bought it 5 years ago. I suppose by 2025 it'll be 10 years old and upgrading shouldn't be too unexpected. But I'm definitely not updating my hardware any time soon just so that I can have semi-transparent menus with rounded corners.
 
I've found I've ended up using the taskbar with the programme icons centred! Probably because I hardly ever use the start menu anyway as 90% of the time I am using icons on my task bar. The start menu is ideal for me, I never used all those info stuff, tiles and so on from earlier versions.

In daily use not seen much difference, on the whole like the visual refresh and they seem to have done well with deciding which functions to promote and which to relegate to "show more options". The only thing I've found and it's probably more to do with how I choose to work compared to others but "open with" is now a menu deeper and I use that several times a day. It's mainly with graphical stuff, I use IrFranView for my quick image viewer for all graphic file types bar specific Adobe ones so when I want to open a JPG or PNG in PS I have to use the "open with" if I'm in file manager.

After looking over the widget pane when I first upgraded I've never re-opened it. Suspect that would be something better suited if I was using Windows with primarily touch input.

Desktops are a good idea but doesn't seem it is possible to save them so no way I'm a setting up new ones after I've switched the PC off or logged out and logged into a different account and back.

And there the new window organisation tools are good bar they still have the "feature" that makes them useless to me i.e. apps don't remember positions when closed if you've used one of the built in tools, so reopening means you must reorganise each time.
 
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Darat said:
I've found I've ended up using the taskbar with the programme icons centred! Probably because I hardly ever use the start menu anyway as 90% of the time I am using icons on my task bar. The start menu is ideal for me, I never used all those info stuff, tiles and so on from earlier versions.
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I've got Classic Shell installed, which makes it like 7s's was. But I rarely use it. I have several programmes that I want reasonably quick access to pinned but, like you, I've got the 2 or 3 that I use most frequently pinned to the task bar. I still like to leave blank space for the icons of other programmes that I have open but not pinned.

And when I want to open the start menu I use the key on the keyboard, rather than the button.

When you open new programmes and new icons appear on the task bar, does the start menu icon move, or does it always remain static? I think there's little sense in either. If it's constantly moving then you don't have the muscle memory of where it is, and if it's static then you're wasting all the real estate to the left of it.
 
Darat said:
rjh01 said:
To get 11 you need a computer that is no more than 2 or 3 years old. If your computer still has 7 then you will not be able to upgrade to 11.
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Squeegee Beckenheim said:
Is that true? I know there are certain hardware requirements, but will those seriously only exist on computers that new?
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No.
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While this is technically true (which we all know is the best kind of true), It looks to me that in general older machines are going to have a tough time making the grade, And by "older", it seems that three years or thereabouts isn't all that much of an exaggeration.

As I've mentioned a couple of times upthread, my two year old laptop which has TPM 2.0 enabled (Yes, I've checked the BIOS, etc.) and an AMD CPU in a series which in theory is supported, nonetheless it didn't pass the MS test ... at least the version before they pulled it.

Mebbe it will sneak by the new and improved version whenever they put it back out.

I'm not holding my breath, though.

An awful lot of machines aren't going to make the cut, and in a few years they will no longer be supported.

Sure, I understand about the obsolescence and support thing, but this is a bit more radical that past new versions of Windows have required.

And by "a bit" I mean a lot.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
I've got Classic Shell installed, which makes it like 7s's was. But I rarely use it. I have several programmes that I want reasonably quick access to pinned but, like you, I've got the 2 or 3 that I use most frequently pinned to the task bar. I still like to leave blank space for the icons of other programmes that I have open but not pinned.

And when I want to open the start menu I use the key on the keyboard, rather than the button.

When you open new programmes and new icons appear on the task bar, does the start menu icon move, or does it always remain static? I think there's little sense in either. If it's constantly moving then you don't have the muscle memory of where it is, and if it's static then you're wasting all the real estate to the left of it.
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It's centre justified so moves towards the left when I'm opening more programs, but I never click on it with my trackball, I always use the windows key. Did used to click into the search box on the taskbar but that is now done by pressing the windows key and typing - no need for a separate click, so it is actually quicker and less awkward for me....

So far the tweaks to the UI seem well thought out and useful..... yeah I know - very strange - I'm assuming I'm being reprogrammed by the Bill gates microchip in the vaccine!
 
quadraginta said:
While this is technically true (which we all know is the best kind of true), It looks to me that in general older machines are going to have a tough time making the grade, And by "older", it seems that three years or thereabouts isn't all that much of an exaggeration.

As I've mentioned a couple of times upthread, my two year old laptop which has TPM 2.0 enabled (Yes, I've checked the BIOS, etc.) and an AMD CPU in a series which in theory is supported, nonetheless it didn't pass the MS test ... at least the version before they pulled it.
Mebbe it will sneak by the new and improved version whenever they put it back out.

I'm not holding my breath, though.

An awful lot of machines aren't going to make the cut, and in a few years they will no longer be supported.

Sure, I understand about the obsolescence and support thing, but this is a bit more radical that past new versions of Windows have required.

And by "a bit" I mean a lot.
Click to expand...
It's a beta so not surprised it didn't work well, it's real world feedback that they needed.

ETA: Plus if it truly helps with security, it's long past the time MS started putting their foot down rather than letting security be an option.
 
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Darat said:
It's centre justified so moves towards the left when I'm opening more programs, but I never click on it with my trackball, I always use the windows key.
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As I say, me too. But presumably the fact that the button still exists implies that some people use it. Which means that the “muscle memory” thing could be a problem for some.

Did used to click into the search box on the taskbar but that is now done by pressing the windows key and typing - no need for a separate click, so it is actually quicker and less awkward for me....
Click to expand...

That’s always been the behaviour. Or perhaps that’s a Classic Shell thing.

As for the Desktops thing, do they remain after Hibernation? The only time I ever switch my computer off these days is when I have to restart it during an update. Otherwise it’s always exactly how I left it because I use Hibernate.
 
Darat said:
It's centre justified so moves towards the left when I'm opening more programs, but I never click on it with my trackball, I always use the windows key. Did used to click into the search box on the taskbar but that is now done by pressing the windows key and typing - no need for a separate click, so it is actually quicker and less awkward for me....

So far the tweaks to the UI seem well thought out and useful..... yeah I know - very strange - I'm assuming I'm being reprogrammed by the Bill gates microchip in the vaccine!
Click to expand...

Hmmmmm.

And pinned apps, do they move as apps open also?

That's gonna be a no-go for me on that interface. I need my pinned apps to be in the same spot on the taskbar no matter what else is open.

There will probably be a workaround. Or maybe they'll be *gasp* reactive to feedback and make it an OPTION instead of a forced change?
 
Darat said:
It's a beta so not surprised it didn't work well, it's real world feedback that they needed.

ETA: Plus if it truly helps with security, it's long past the time MS started putting their foot down rather than letting security be an option.
Click to expand...


I'm not debating any of that. I'm not even disagreeing with it.

What I was doing was expanding a little on your categorical "No.", because the the idea that machines more than two or three years old will not be able to run Win11 seems to be, from my own experience and that of others I have read, more right than wrong.

Now, those machines will be at least six or seven years old by the time MS drops Win10, and it might be time to replace them by then, for more reasons than simply security issues, but it is still an exclusion policy which is a bit tougher than they have exercised in the past.

The ones I feel a bit sorry for are those people trying to buy low price machines in the next year or so, only to find that less-than-scrupulous vendors are taking advantage of the non-techie segment of the public to unload machines with CPUs that don't make the cut, and learn too late that their two or three year old computer in 2025 won't get any more security upgrades from MS.

My youngest machine will be seven years old then. It will be obsolesced by Win11 The one sitting next to it, which is my main machine for reading because of its 17" screen, is already older than that and runs Win 10 just fine.

Barring hardware disease it will still be in 2025.

Needless to say, there isn't a prayer in hell it will run Win11.

I guess I'll get an upgrade to a shiny old Linux machine if that happens. :p

ETA:

One thing's for sure. If I should suddenly find myself in need of a new Windows computer (Goddess forbid!), I won't buy one that doesn't ship with Win11, just to be sure it's compatible. I'll give the same advice to anyone who asks me.

I wonder if there will be a noticeable drop in computer sales due to similar caution.
 
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gnome said:
Wait what? Tell me about that.
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Some of the later Samsung phones - last 2 years have "Your Phone" baked into them, it means I can run an android app in a window on my PC. It is running still on the phone but all input and output is in a window on the desktop.
 
Nice! I'll have to try that. I spotted that "Your phone" business but I thought all it did was make your PC give you phone notifications as well as the phone itself.
 
gnome said:
Nice! I'll have to try that. I spotted that "Your phone" business but I thought all it did was make your PC give you phone notifications as well as the phone itself.
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It works surprisingly well.

I use it all the time for my banking app, WhatsApp and other messaging apps, much nicer to be able to use my keyboard and not have to pick the phone up.
 

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