Will the internet survive energy contraction?

TFian said:
What do you mean by Dam the Ob river? How will this be a solution?
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One of the dangers of global warming is that the British Isles and the western end of continental Europe will be plunged into a new ice age. There's a current called the North Atlantic Conveyor - the surface component of which is the Gulf Stream. It's what keeps Britain habitable.

In the North Atlantic, north and west of Ireland, the warm Gulf Stream waters finally cool, sink, and flow back the other way. If there's too much fresh water flowing into the North Atlantic - from melting ice, and from the flows of the Siberian rivers, which are forecast to increase by 50% this century as the climate of the whole region shifts - then the water will be too light to sink and Conveyor will shut down and Britain will freeze.

So, mitigate that by sending the overflowing Ob back down into arid Central Asia.

You have to know this kind of stuff if you want to predict certain doom.

I'm pretty sure the melting of the polar caps will have a much more devastating effect than just on coastal areas. In fact I have an interesting book on this very subject, though I'm sure you won't like the conclusions.
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It doesn't matter whether I like the conclusions; it matters whether they are backed up with evidence. So far your failure rate there is 100%.

How did he make it all up? What anecdote?
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For crying out loud, the whole thing is made up! He says so repeatedly. It's not a model or a survey or a theory, it's just garbage.
 
PixyMisa said:
One of the dangers of global warming is that the British Isles and the western end of continental Europe will be plunged into a new ice age. There's a current called the North Atlantic Conveyor - the surface component of which is the Gulf Stream. It's what keeps Britain habitable.

In the North Atlantic, north and west of Ireland, the warm Gulf Stream waters finally cool, sink, and flow back the other way. If there's too much fresh water flowing into the North Atlantic - from melting ice, and from the flows of the Siberian rivers, which are forecast to increase by 50% this century as the climate of the whole region shifts - then the water will be too light to sink and Conveyor will shut down and Britain will freeze.

So, mitigate that by sending the overflowing Ob back down into arid Central Asia.

You have to know this kind of stuff if you want to predict certain doom.
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Sounds interesting, but how will this address the entire planet? Also sounds very dangerous.

PixyMisa said:
It doesn't matter whether I like the conclusions; it matters whether they are backed up with evidence. So far your failure rate there is 100%.
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Haha..here http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/04...p=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN= 0465009492

PixyMisa said:
For crying out loud, the whole thing is made up! He says so repeatedly. It's not a model or a survey or a theory, it's just garbage.
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Well I don't think he made up that his family member used an icebox instead of a fridge...
 
TFian said:
Sounds interesting, but how will this address the entire planet?
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It doesn't. It addresses one part of the problem.

Also sounds very dangerous.
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In what way?

Well I don't think he made up that his family member used an icebox instead of a fridge...
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I can believe the story about the irrationally tight-fisted employer. They exist. That's the anecdote part. The rest of the story he makes up is based on that.
 
TFian said:
To be brief, I was speaking of health issues involving our diet and stress levels which are directly involved with civilization... ADHD, autism, and depression also involve civilization.
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You can't prove that, the rates of such things are likely to have been constant throughout history, they just used to hide and kill most people with such disorders. ADHD would not have as much of an impact in non industrial societies, depression existed as long as we have records of people's behavior. Autism was mainly labeled as ‘retardation’.

You are sadly mistaken, sometimes people in agrarian societies just kill people with disabilities.

Autism is a developmental disability BTW.
 
PixyMisa said:
You didn't follow the link.

Early (pre-agriculture, pre-city) humans wiped out huge numbers of species. If you ever wondered where all those large land animals went, well, we ate 'em.
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I hope you are not talking about the north american megafauna, they were most likely eliminated by the rapid temerature cycles around 9,000- 8,000 tears ago. I mean really elephants are in africa, and camels, etc...

Now passenger pigeons and dods, and some herb that looked like asafoetida
 
Dancing David said:
You can't prove that, the rates of such things are likely to have been constant throughout history, they just used to hide and kill most people with such disorders. ADHD would not have as much of an impact in non industrial societies, depression existed as long as we have records of people's behavior. Autism was mainly labeled as ‘retardation’.
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Well to be fair, a number of autistics are pretty close to being retarded. So I can understand the mistake.

Dancing David said:
You are sadly mistaken, sometimes people in agrarian societies just kill people with disabilities.
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Since when did I say otherwise?

Dancing David said:
Autism is a developmental disability BTW.
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So?
 
TFian said:
But isn't there the possibility global climate change will reduce the carrying capacity of earth?
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Sure the impact on rainfall could be devastating, even though some marginal areas will be warmer, the growing seasons will be too short.

High temps are drought can wreck the agricultural production, which is why some people suggest we need to start reducing carbon emissions.
 
Dancing David said:
Sure the impact on rainfall could be devastating, even though some marginal areas will be warmer, the growing seasons will be too short.

High temps are drought can wreck the agricultural production, which is why some people suggest we need to start reducing carbon emissions.
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Yes, we should. Though it doesn't look like we will in time...:(
 
Dancing David said:
So you have yet to demonstrate that modern civilization causes any of these issues.
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I didn't say they created such ailments, just increased them. Autism is likely largely a product of environmental settings, and not just genetics, for example.
 
Dancing David said:
Seriously the effects of peak oil will not be that apparent for fifty years. If we consume as we are now, it will be very low by then.
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Alright, I'll come back here in 2018 (assuming this message board is still around) and we'll see how things have come along. Though we certainly won't be consuming as we are now. Rising demand is apparent, like with India and China. Guzzle guzzle guzzle...
 
TFian said:
I didn't say they created such ailments, just increased them. Autism is likely largely a product of environmental settings, and not just genetics, for example.
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http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6448128&postcount=931

Your statement here needs clarifying, diets do not casue mental illness, it can (poor nutition) lead to some developmetal issues.

Autism is associated with a number of events, it seems related to an overgrowth of neurons in some studies. it is very likely to be genetic in nature. It is not caused by vaccines or enviromental toxins (unless the dose is remarkably low).
 
Dancing David said:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6448128&postcount=931

Your statement here needs clarifying, diets do not casue mental illness, it can (poor nutition) lead to some developmetal issues.

Autism is associated with a number of events, it seems related to an overgrowth of neurons in some studies. it is very likely to be genetic in nature. It is not caused by vaccines or enviromental toxins (unless the dose is remarkably low).
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I think it's been suggested it's a combination of environmental and genetic factors, though I'm not sure.

Yes, I know diets do not cause mental illness, but poor diet leads to all sorts of developmental problems, if started at an early age (malnutrition causes stunted growth, etc. etc.)
 
Dancing David said:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6448128&postcount=931

Your statement here needs clarifying, diets do not casue mental illness, it can (poor nutition) lead to some developmetal issues.

Autism is associated with a number of events, it seems related to an overgrowth of neurons in some studies. it is very likely to be genetic in nature. It is not caused by vaccines or enviromental toxins (unless the dose is remarkably low).
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Well, it's not just that there's no mechanism for vaccines to cause autism; it's not borne out by epidemiology either.

As for environmental toxins - if that were the case, we'd have seen a marked decline over the last 40 years or so; we've been almost fanatical in eliminating every trace of toxic substances from our environment. Not that I'm saying this is a bad thing...
 
PixyMisa said:
Well, it's not just that there's no mechanism for vaccines to cause autism; it's not borne out by epidemiology either.

As for environmental toxins - if that were the case, we'd have seen a marked decline over the last 40 years or so; we've been almost fanatical in eliminating every trace of toxic substances from our environment. Not that I'm saying this is a bad thing...
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Seems the causes may be somewhat complex. http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/v9/n10/full/nn1770.html
 
TFian said:
Seems the causes may be somewhat complex. http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/v9/n10/full/nn1770.html
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While it is primarily genetic, it isn't something simple like, say, Huntington's Chorea. If you have the specific genetic error that indicates Huntington's, you will develop the disease. With autism, there appears to be multiple genes involved, interacting in ways we are still exploring, and there may be environmental triggers as well. The vaccine hypothesis has been thoroughly debunked, but that doesn't rule out everything.
 
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