Wiccan instructuions are Defective
- Thread starter Radrook
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Re: Re: Re: Wiccan instructuions are Defective
I don't see how. Consider another famous rede: "Thou shalt not kill". Now we all know that a good many Christians will kill despite the commandment against it. (War, death penalty, etc...) Some will argue that the original wording means thou shalt not murder. But now we're arguing semantics. What is murder? Is eating animals murder? Some seem to think so.
Anything can be twisted like that. But the bare bones pared down meaning of "and it harm none, do as ye will" is to do no harm, and live a free life. Something most people have been striving for since they first got here. If anything, doing no harm to others could be interpreted in a very pacifist context to mean bodily, emotional and spiritual damage. Such a person would be paralyzed by indecision on how their actions might harm another, now or in the future.
If anything, I find the axiom to be rather self evident and pretentious, like a lot of religion, but... *Shrug*
Radrook said:
I don't see how. Consider another famous rede: "Thou shalt not kill". Now we all know that a good many Christians will kill despite the commandment against it. (War, death penalty, etc...) Some will argue that the original wording means thou shalt not murder. But now we're arguing semantics. What is murder? Is eating animals murder? Some seem to think so.
Anything can be twisted like that. But the bare bones pared down meaning of "and it harm none, do as ye will" is to do no harm, and live a free life. Something most people have been striving for since they first got here. If anything, doing no harm to others could be interpreted in a very pacifist context to mean bodily, emotional and spiritual damage. Such a person would be paralyzed by indecision on how their actions might harm another, now or in the future.
If anything, I find the axiom to be rather self evident and pretentious, like a lot of religion, but... *Shrug*
Iacchus said:
If you are referring to what I wrote, you seem to have the time in the world to post nonsense but when someone tries to have a serious discussion about verses in the bible, you don't have the time to play this game.
This is the man whose words you believe, this is the book you live by, but discussion of it is a game.
Surely you should the words of your god more seriously than that.
Iacchus said:
I have never heard someone say that vegetarianism is murder. (Except jokingly, I have used that one on vegetarians from time to time, as the situation warranted it.)
And this still points out the interpretation flaw. What is killing and what is murder as referenced by the commandment?
I'm just saying if you folks insist on asking where we draw the, i.e., in an attempt to pin me down, I'm saying, Okay, that's a fair enough question, Where do we draw the line? In which case I can come up with just as an absurd answer as you can which, is really what this about isn't it?dmarker said:
Well, the thing is we all have to survive and, unfortunately that involves killing in order to eat. So, really there's no way of getting around that. So, might I suggest murder has more to do with intent (I'm sure it's defined in the dictionary by the way), perhaps more so out of spite, towards your fellow creatures let's say? While at the same time I'm not sure how favorably cannibalism would be looked upon or, how much of a penalty murdering a fly would carry? Albeit the fact that the intent is there in the first place is not indicative to wholeness.Ratman_tf said:
Dancing David
Penultimate Amazing
Iacchus said:
Salad is murder, bread is not, nor is pumkin pie.
Z
Variable Constant
If you decide destroying plant life is murder, then you need to address the question of abortion. The seed of any plant is the unborn life of that plant, and the fruit is its womb, after a fashion. So what choice then?
Kitty Chan
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dmarker
I have a idea about that parents and children thing.
Iaccus you are missing something . . .
it is being assumed that parents and children are getting along .
many dont, kids kill parents and vice versa, brothers kill sisters, even rape them. sisters send their brothers to jail, siblings sometimes never talk to one another all their life, husbands kill wives (in the news alot) On and on and on.
Maybe in the "sin" of the family Jesus will "divide"
Divide in the way perhaps the brother will see the sins of his family and decide not to participate anymore and lead a "clean" life and the family will never understand his gooddy goody attitude.
I have a idea about that parents and children thing.
Iaccus you are missing something . . .
it is being assumed that parents and children are getting along .
many dont, kids kill parents and vice versa, brothers kill sisters, even rape them. sisters send their brothers to jail, siblings sometimes never talk to one another all their life, husbands kill wives (in the news alot) On and on and on.
Maybe in the "sin" of the family Jesus will "divide"
Divide in the way perhaps the brother will see the sins of his family and decide not to participate anymore and lead a "clean" life and the family will never understand his gooddy goody attitude.
Kitty Chan
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- Joined
- May 14, 2004
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Carrot Juice Is Murder
Listen up brothers and sisters come hear my desperate tale
I speak of our friends of nature trapped in the dirt like a jail
Vegetables live in oppression, served on our tables each night
This killing of veggies is madness, I say we take up the fight
Salads are only for murderers, coleslaw's a fascist regime
Don't think that they don't have feelings, just cause a radish can't scream
from the The Arrogant Worms
Listen up brothers and sisters come hear my desperate tale
I speak of our friends of nature trapped in the dirt like a jail
Vegetables live in oppression, served on our tables each night
This killing of veggies is madness, I say we take up the fight
Salads are only for murderers, coleslaw's a fascist regime
Don't think that they don't have feelings, just cause a radish can't scream
from the The Arrogant Worms
Yes, and would you go so far as to say it was inherent in our genes? I wouldn't. In fact I almost brought this up myself, except I didn't think the discussion could bear it. Also, here's something concerning what you said about people being wicked at heart ...Kitty Chan said:
Kitty Chan
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scripturally you said it first in Matthew
Heres part of a commentary by Matthew Henry which can explain another point of view from mine already stated.
From those of their own kindred. The brother shall deliver up the brother to death, v. 21. A man shall be, upon this account, at variance with his own father; nay, and those of the weaker and tenderer sex too shall become persecutors and persecuted; the persecuting daughter will be against the believing mother, where natural affection and filial duty, one would think, should prevent or soon extinguish the quarrel; and then, no marvel if the daughter-in-law be against the mother-in-law; where, too often, the coldness of love seeks occasion of contention, v. 35.
In general, a man’s foes shall be they of his own household (v. 36). They who should be his friends will be incensed against him for embracing Christianity, and especially for adhering to it when it comes to be persecuted, and will join with his persecutors against him. Note, The strongest bonds of relative love and duty have often been broken through, by an enmity against Christ and his doctrine.
Sufferings from such are more grievous; nothing cuts more than this, It was thou, a man, mine equal (Ps. 55:12, 13); and the enmity of such is commonly most implacable; a brother offended is harder to be won than a strong city, Prov. 18:19.
Heres part of a commentary by Matthew Henry which can explain another point of view from mine already stated.
From those of their own kindred. The brother shall deliver up the brother to death, v. 21. A man shall be, upon this account, at variance with his own father; nay, and those of the weaker and tenderer sex too shall become persecutors and persecuted; the persecuting daughter will be against the believing mother, where natural affection and filial duty, one would think, should prevent or soon extinguish the quarrel; and then, no marvel if the daughter-in-law be against the mother-in-law; where, too often, the coldness of love seeks occasion of contention, v. 35.
In general, a man’s foes shall be they of his own household (v. 36). They who should be his friends will be incensed against him for embracing Christianity, and especially for adhering to it when it comes to be persecuted, and will join with his persecutors against him. Note, The strongest bonds of relative love and duty have often been broken through, by an enmity against Christ and his doctrine.
Sufferings from such are more grievous; nothing cuts more than this, It was thou, a man, mine equal (Ps. 55:12, 13); and the enmity of such is commonly most implacable; a brother offended is harder to be won than a strong city, Prov. 18:19.
Iacchus said:
Well I'd confidently suggest cannabilism is wrong in any good ethical guideline. Shame the bible doesn't agree with me ...
Leviticus 26:29
Nice punishment, couldn't he have stuck to just burning them or something?