Why vegans are simply better people

[dafydd]

To be fair, I did not even check the spelling either .

I did, but I have been amused by his misspelling.

 

[SusanB-M1]

Wrong. The risk is lower, but not zero.

Because it is not the case. The meat eating is a contributing factor, but there are many other contributing factor, which is why vegan can and DO have athlerosclerosis... See link above.

You were wrong on athlerosclerosis therefore your opinion is valueless.

Thank you for posting this! I certainly know whose opinion I rrespect - the haematologist's I referred to or rever bison's!

 

[Kahalachan]

Artificial meat made from human excrement.



So now when I tell a vegan to go eat **** I can mean it quite literally.

 

[cyborg]

The real problem with diet Nazi's is the assumption of the perfect diet which has no drawbacks at all - for a creature randomly constructed to extract what nutrition it can from its environment I find this notion of an optimal diet laughably unlikely.

 

[dafydd]

The real problem with diet Nazi's is the assumption of the perfect diet which has no drawbacks at all - for a creature randomly constructed to extract what nutrition it can from its environment I find this notion of an optimal diet laughably unlikely.

Exactly.

 

[reverebison]

OK. I read the advertorial at the link you provided. Then I Googled Campbell.

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/China-Study.html and I read that. The title is The Truth About the China Study. I suggest every one interested in this topic read the article there. It may be summarized as follows:

Now what?

Almost all of those critical of The China study are those affiliated with the animal products industry. The China study, also known as the China-Cornell-Oxford Project is the most comprehensive study on the connection between didet ande disease in medical history. The New York Times called it the "Grand Prix of all epidemiological studies and the most comprehensive large study of its kind ever conducted. " It was huge and took decades.

The author went into it with the intention of trying to see how meat and dairy would benefit the poor countries of the world. That was his original goal. He was actually raised on a dairy and felt the dairy industry and the meat industry were the answer to the worlds health problems.

His honest, unbiased research showed him differently. To his astonishment I might add. He was not born a vegan, he was born and rasied a red blooded american meat eater and milk drinker.

Again his research slowly uncovered the truth, that those people of the world who ate mostly plant based diet, got almost no heart disease and fewer cancers and a host of other chronic diseases so common in modern culture.

You are the one who needs to get your facts straight. You are listening to fake researchers who have an agenda and paycheck from the meat and dairy industry, which by the way are huge and quite powerful.

You are the sucker who is listening to ones who's intention is to manipulate the facts and protect themselves.

How can you call yourself anything but gullible.

http://www.vegsource.com/news/2010/...campbell-slaps-down-critic-denise-minger.html

 

[dafydd]

If anyone is in need of a giggle.

http://www.celestialhealing.net/physicalveg3.htm

 

[dafydd]

http://www.vegsource.com/news/2010/...campbell-slaps-down-critic-denise-minger.html

So you hero ignores all criticism.

http://www.powerofmeat.com/

Vegans have on average 6 percent lower bone density than omnivores.

http://www.defendingfoodsafety.com/...-bones-about-it-meat-is-good-for-your-health/

 

[reverebison]

What an overweight meat-eater might look like:
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/111684d8a70dc2bc97.jpg[/qimg]
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/111684e5bb3e6e08e2.jpg[/qimg]
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/111684eae8d5b862bc.jpg[/qimg]
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/111684ee2b0243bbb9.jpg[/qimg]
All taken in 2011.

guarantee you have coronary artery disease. I will bet any amount of money you can afford to wager....you have it. Not kidding either. put up or shut up.

 

[reverebison]

So you hero ignores all criticism.

http://www.powerofmeat.com/

Vegans have on average 6 percent lower bone density than omnivores.

http://www.defendingfoodsafety.com/...-bones-about-it-meat-is-good-for-your-health/

Here is the part of the article you failed to mention:


2009 -- Vegans have lower bone densities than non-vegans, researchers have concluded.

But the news isn't all bad, with the study finding an animal-free diet doesn't translate into more fractures.

The findings, published today in the American Journal of Nutrition, came out of a review of previous studies that included more than 2,500 individuals.

Research has shown that low bone density, a predictor for osteoporosis, increases the risk of bone fracture.

Epidemiologist and lead author Tuan Nguyen, of Sydney's Garvan Institute of Medical Research Garvan Institute of Medical Research , said there are four main factors that influence bone density: genetics, hormones, exercise and nutrition.

He expected vegans, those who avoid eating animal products, would have lower bone density and therefore a higher risk of bone fracture. The study found that on average vegans had a bone mass density 5 percent lower than non-vegans. But Nguyen said the study found vegans were no more likely to be treated for bone fractures than non-vegans.

This is probably because vegans tend to be more health conscious, he said.

"If you look at vegetarians as a whole they are certainly healthier, they tend to live longer and have lower risk of hypertension and heart disease." And there are other factors that may override the influence bone density has on fracture risk such as hormone deficiencies, smoking and lifestyle, said Nguyen.

 

[Complexity]

Not that this is a choice one has to make, but if I had to choose between having a short life as a nice guy or a long life as a nasty guy, I'd take the short life in a heartbeat.

This thread really isn't about what we eat, it is about how we behave.

 

[reverebison]

My irony meter just exploded. Your post are pristine examples of cold, clear logic. I am not obese, I weigh 65 kilos, 143 pounds. I am in perfect health. It's organization and possible, by the way. I might take you more seriously if you could spell. Who are 'everyone'? You do realize that 'everyone' includes overweight people too? You ought to think these things through before you post. The only reason that I do not have you on ignore here is that your histrionic, badly spelled posts make me laugh. Not eating meat every day will cause your heart to stop too. How do you foresee your death? Carry on making a good case for omnivore-ism. Do you drink alcohol? I don't. I still think that you a bored teenager out to wind us up. Reason with me? When are you going to start doing that?

Let me make this fair, and very simple for you. If you support meat eating so much, I take it you eat a Standard American Diet. Lets say you have been eating meat at least one meal a day for over 30 years.

Most people eat meat every meal all their lives. But for the sake of argument, lets say you just eat meat and dairy and oil just one meal a day for most of your life, guess your over 40.

I will bet you One thousand dollars you have some degree of coronary artery disease. One thousand dollars. Your artery walls contain cholesterol plaques. Like most people you don't feel it or know it, but they do.

If you are serious about this matter take me up on my wager. You will pay for a calcium scan of your heart and any other sensitive tests to detect even the slightest beginning of this horrible disease and if good doctors says you don't have the slightest amount of it, I will pay for your tests and give you one thousand in cash for the trouble. I will also post that I was wrong about my assertion that meat causes coronary artery disease and aplolgize here on this forum.

I know you won't take me up on my offer. I know you won't.

Checkmate

 

[reverebison]

Wrong. The risk is lower, but not zero.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2011-02/acs-veh020111.php



Because it is not the case. The meat eating is a contributing factor, but there are many other contributing factor, which is why vegan can and DO have athlerosclerosis... See link above.



You were wrong on athlerosclerosis therefore your opinion is valueless.

Your betting your entire argument on one obscure finding by a guy no one has ever heard of.

Vegans don't always mean individuals who have never eaten meat or dairy or oil their entire lives, which would have to happen to have no atherosclorisis at all.

Let me counter by stating that in his book, "Prevent and Reverse heart disease", Dr. Cauldwell Essylstein states that there are peoples of the world who never eat meat that have no atherosclorisis at all. Its hard to find such people but his entire research and reputation was based on such.

My claim is this. If we ate no meat or dairy or oil and kept artificial foods such as man made simple carbs out of our diet, Heart disease as we know it today, would simply not exist. That is my claim. You want to have a war about finding research, lets have one. I will win and you know it. Only a complete idiot would be on the side of meat and dairy and think it healthy. Only a complete idiot.

 

[332nd]

Your betting your entire argument on one obscure finding by a guy no one has ever heard of.

Vegans don't always mean individuals who have never eaten meat or dairy or oil their entire lives, which would have to happen to have no atherosclorisis at all.

Let me counter by stating that in his book, "Prevent and Reverse heart disease", Dr. Cauldwell Essylstein states that there are peoples of the world who never eat meat that have no atherosclorisis at all. Its hard to find such people but his entire research and reputation was based on such.

My claim is this. If we ate no meat or dairy or oil and kept artificial foods such as man made simple carbs out of our diet, Heart disease as we know it today, would simply not exist. That is my claim. You want to have a war about finding research, lets have one. I will win and you know it. Only a complete idiot would be on the side of meat and dairy and think it healthy. Only a complete idiot.

I'm on the side of meat & dairy because I like it.

 

[reverebison]

I will post this final comment. In my original post I stated the real intention of the post.

which is this:

"Eating meat, dairy, oil as we do in the Standard American Diet is the cause of heart disease, meaning atherosclerosis, or cardiovascular disease. It is the very cause. I backed it up with the largest study on the correlation between diet and disease ever conducted in the history of the world....The China study by Dr. Campbell a world renowned Ph.d, researcher from a small univesity known as Cornell.

Edited by LashL: 

Edited for civility.

I will leave with this final challenge. If you thinking eating meat as we do in the Standard American Diet is so healthy, then i will bet you one thousand dollars you have cardiovascular disease to some degree, probably alot worse than you think. There are people of the world who never consume animal products and they have none according to Dr. Essylstein book. So if eating meat is so good for you, you should have none. But you will have it as all who have eaten meat do. Remember, if you are over the age of 40 and have eaten meat all your life, you have cardiovascular disease, thats a thousand dollar guarantee from me to you.

Do not reply to this unless you are willing to take me up on the bet

 

[Complexity]

There are worse things than dying.

Door, slam, and all that.

 

[332nd]

I will post this final comment. In my original post I stated the real intention of the post.

which is this:

"Eating meat, dairy, oil as we do in the Standard American Diet is the cause of heart disease, meaning atherosclerosis, or cardiovascular disease. It is the very cause. I backed it up with the largest study on the correlation between diet and disease ever conducted in the history of the world....The China study by Dr. Campbell a world renowned Ph.d, researcher from a small univesity known as Cornell.

Edited by LashL: 

Edited for civility.

I will leave with this final challenge. If you thinking eating meat as we do in the Standard American Diet is so healthy, then i will bet you one thousand dollars you have cardiovascular disease to some degree, probably alot worse than you think. There are people of the world who never consume animal products and they have none according to Dr. Essylstein book. So if eating meat is so good for you, you should have none. But you will have it as all who have eaten meat do. Remember, if you are over the age of 40 and have eaten meat all your life, you have cardiovascular disease, thats a thousand dollar guarantee from me to you.

Do not reply to this unless you are willing to take me up on the bet

(Poke)

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

It is so curious that the health claims about diet, which by all rights should be the most objective and discussible of claims about vegans versus meat eaters, still ends up completely silly. In my view the bet is silly because it is impotent. People still smoke, knowing they are doing damage to their health. And even if the opposite was true and veganism was not as healthy, one is still left with the question of if one values X% less chance of some illness over the suffering of Y many animals. And anyway, we still have so many disagreements about the benefits of foods by themselves, and among many different omnivore diets. Most of us are familiar with, "Chocolate is good for you!" "Chocolate is bad!" "Wine is good!" "Wine is bad!" And so on. And of course there is the question of "American Standard" vs another omnivore diet vs veganism.

I like the moral debate so much better .

 

[Roxane]

I have turned vegan also because of the mounting evidence about heart disease...

You mean, it wasn't because someone came on the internet and called you an idiot?!

 

[dafydd]

Let me make this fair, and very simple for you. If you support meat eating so much, I take it you eat a Standard American Diet. Lets say you have been eating meat at least one meal a day for over 30 years.

Most people eat meat every meal all their lives. But for the sake of argument, lets say you just eat meat and dairy and oil just one meal a day for most of your life, guess your over 40.

I will bet you One thousand dollars you have some degree of coronary artery disease. One thousand dollars. Your artery walls contain cholesterol plaques. Like most people you don't feel it or know it, but they do.

If you are serious about this matter take me up on my wager. You will pay for a calcium scan of your heart and any other sensitive tests to detect even the slightest beginning of this horrible disease and if good doctors says you don't have the slightest amount of it, I will pay for your tests and give you one thousand in cash for the trouble. I will also post that I was wrong about my assertion that meat causes coronary artery disease and aplolgize here on this forum.

I know you won't take me up on my offer. I know you won't.

Checkmate

Wrong. I am a Brit who lives in Belgium and I eat meat about three times a week. I eat a lot of fish, smoked halibut being my favourite. I have never eaten a standard American diet, I was brought up on porridge. I have had a complete checkup recently and I am in perfect health. I am in such good condition that while I am 58 my lady friend is 36. I am not supporting eating meat, somebody else's diet is their own affair. You pay and I'll take the tests. Because of the good Belgian health system it should cost about 100 euros. I know you won't take me up on my offer.