Why the Continued Interest in Bigfoot on This Forum

[EHocking]

Following the letter, Paulides writes:

The name of the lab has been removed because NABS has had problems with others calling the lab, stating they are with NABS and asking for results on specimens. If anyone has specific concerns or issues with this or the other letter in the book, contact a NABS member at any conference and we will gladly show you the results.

Fair enough, on the face of it. The reason I was curious was as to whether the lab was appropriately trained to determine species identification - especially as the particular test outlined in the letter is pretty much specific to sex determination.

The fact that THEY had never encountered it, while exciting to a BF proponent, is not a reliable data point to make any conclusions.

I found this, the test manufacturer's handbook on the test system, GenePrint ® PowerPlex™ 16 System (PDF).

In the troubleshooting section there are a number of things that could throw up this unexpected peak:

(Problem) Extra peaks visible in one or all of the color channels.

• Contamination another template DNA or previously amplified DNA
• Artifacts of STR amplification
• Samples not completely denatured
• Background (Load less amplification product or decrease the injection time.)
• Capillary electro-phoresis (CE) related artifacts (“spikes”)
• CE-related artifacts (contaminants)
  etc etc

Googling, there are a number of papers (many of which were beyond my ken) that discuss errors with this process, including misidentification of sex, let alone species.

This particular sentence in this paper's abstract ("Validation and implementation of the PowerPlex 16 BIO System STR multiplex for forensic casework", is intriguing (my bolding),
"The mixture study results were comparable to those reported for other multiplex systems, the environmental study demonstrated a loss of larger molecular weight loci when samples were incubated at elevated temperatures for a prolonged period of time, and the only notable cross species hybridization was observed with primate DNA samples."

Does this imply that the PowerPlex system is liable to misidentify primate species?

I realise that this may seem like hyper-sceptical "denial" of the hair/DNA evidence, but in light of a 15min Google I was able to come up with a number of more plausible explanations for the anomalous result before only concluding, "...at this time it cannot be ruled out that this could be DNA from an undocumented species."

 

[LONGTABBER PE]

Following the letter, Paulides writes:
Quote:
The name of the lab has been removed because NABS has had problems with others calling the lab, stating they are with NABS and asking for results on specimens. If anyone has specific concerns or issues with this or the other letter in the book, contact a NABS member at any conference and we will gladly show you the results.

Who would have known they were there. I dont buy this because of the numbers of samples I have sent to labs over the years for criminal cases.

Its normal for labs to be called and to have information extracted ( or attempted to)

I'm curious about a report that can only be obtained from a "member"

 

[Mako]

Right, why?

My percentage is lower primarily because the topic is bigfoot related.

I found this, the test manufacturer's handbook on the test system, GenePrint ® PowerPlex™ 16 System (PDF).

In the troubleshooting section there are a number of things that could throw up this unexpected peak:

Nice find

 

[William Parcher]

If it's good enough for The Jane, it's good enough for The Bigfooters.

 

[RSLancastr]

I have long abandonned all hope to bring in rationality to such people. NOW this is what I call a waste of time.

If by "such people" you mean "people with irrational beliefs", then I strongly disagree with you. Some of the success I have acheived with my Stop sites shows that logic, reason, and (mostly) dispassionate examination of the facts can and do change minds.

I know that it is fashionable in some skeptical circles to say "You can't reason someone out of a belief which they did not reason themself into", but this ignores the fact that many times, those people did, in their own minds, reason themselves into those beliefs. Maybe not what you or I would consider sound reasoning, but reasoning nonetheless. And exposing the logical fallacies in their "reasoning" can be a powerful method to make them reexamine their belief. As for the OP, there are those who would ask the same question of all of the Sylvia Browne threads here, back when they were as frequent here as Bigfoot threads are now. So, while i have yet to read more than a post or two in any BF thread, I am glad that there are other skeptics here who are willing and able to respond to the pro-BF crowd.

 

[Vortigern99]

I'm one of those who, owing to some undergrad scientific training, was from a young age equipped to reject every paranormal claim I encountered... except bigfoot.

I accepted bigfoot as possible, even likely, based on a few misconceptions I harbored with respect to nutritional requirements, population size, and the numbers of biologists, wildlife researchers, hunters, hikers and campers infiltrating the forests of the Pacific NW on any given day.

I accepted the PG film as possible, even likely, footage of an actual bigfoot, based on misconceptions I harbored regarding creature-suit effects, namely muscle suits and their development in the decades prior to the 1970s.

In conducting research into the BF phenomenon, I discovered this website, and found pictures of muscle suits which demolished my belief in the validity of the PG film. I then engaged in a vigorous discussion with kitakaze and others, whose logical arguments penetrated my romantic notions about an undiscovered NA primate, and I was finally able to let go of those unsupported, and unsupportable, beliefs.

In short, I'm a success story, and I cannot be the only one.

 

[William Parcher]

How to Argue That Bigfoot Does Exist - eHow.com

Bigfoot is real. Period. End of sentence. But not everybody else is a believer, in fact, this describes most people. If you get into a conversation about Bigfoot with non-believers, follow these steps to argue your position. If you hold true to your beliefs and defend them effectively, you can even bring other people to see the light.

Step 1. Learn some technical jargon in the study of Bigfoot. "Cryptozoology" is the name of a broad field of study that investigates mysterious animals. Bigfoot investigators are cryptozoologists. Also, you can use the synonym "Sasquatch" when talking about Bigfoot...

 

[William Parcher]

Why the Continued Interest in Bigfoot on This Forum?

Because Bigfoot is absurd and there are people who say they believe it exists. The absurdity is that all the evidence is fakable stuff and there is no body or body part after centuries.

Here is a fascinating webpage by an artist (scultor/anatomist) who looked at purported Bigfoot and Yeti type creature footprints and plaster casts. He went and made drawings of what those feet would look like if real creatures had made the imprints. But, it seems that the artist is a believer.

In the upper left you see the Wallace Alderfoot. I wonder if he now knows that a wooden foot made that impression. The webpage allows for viewing of large graphics by clicking thumbnail. There is some awesome stuff there.

In the center at the top you see your own foot in comparative size to the plaster-casts. Top left you see the foot of our Sasquatch. The arrows indicate the direction in walking; note that he walked with his feet directly forward. Top right you see the variant foot of another Sasquatch, cast by Bailey who found the footprints. Note how the first and second toe are massive digits, widely separated, while the same toes on the first foot are more frail and seem to be almost joined by a membrane. While man's toes are grouped in 1-4 sets, these are divided into 1-1-3.

In the right bottom corner you have the footprint of a Yeti in the Himalayas, who is locally called Meh-Teh. Observe how short and stubby it is, how totally different from the others. Here we have proof that there are a number of bispecies of the Sasquatch.

 

[desertyeti]

Wow.
Some site!
With a self-proclaimed genius at its helm no less:

Being a professional man in numerous fields of intellectual activities, I have evolved a different attitude towards them than the layman, who keeps on repeating the same phraseology and terminology, thus sustaining the same, common attitude. Frankly, I am talented in many fields because my interests are numerous, so that I understand to a higher degree how they are interrelated.

Thus, when I say about myself that I am a genius, it is not self-praise, but a statement to describe a type of mind that: whatever it does in any field, it does well. A mind that peruses in many fields will comprehend better, and many things more, than one that is absorbed in only one. It becomes a universal mind.

Sounds a bit familiar to me...huh...I wonder how that Bill Munns report is coming along?

 

[GT/CS]

Wow.
Some site!
With a self-proclaimed genius at its helm no less:


Sounds a bit familiar to me...huh...I wonder how that Bill Munns report is coming along?

After looking at some of the drawings he posted he seems to be mistaking disturbed for genius.

 

[rockinkt]

<snip>...but a statement to describe a type of mind that: whatever it does in any field, it does fertilizes the crops well.

There, fixed it for him...

 

[rockinkt]

Wow.
Some site!
With a self-proclaimed genius at its helm no less:


Sounds a bit familiar to me...huh...I wonder how that Bill Munns report is coming along?

 

[tsig]

After looking at some of the drawings he posted he seems to be mistaking disturbed for genius.

It looks like argument by caricature.

 

[Vortigern99]

The page under discussion is riddled with all manner of errors and absurdities, especially concerning nomenclature and the concept of speciation -- causing me to doubt his expertise in anything apart from drawing what he sees.

The author misnames apes as a "species", a Cro-Magnon-era cave painting as a "fresco", and appears to believe (jokingly?) that fat people are descended from gorillas through a phenomenon he calls "bastardy".

Color me heartily unimpressed.

 

[drapier]

I first heard about Stanisław Szukalski, the artist whose ideas are presented on that webpage, about 15 years ago when I had a passing interest in the Church of the Subgenius. The Subgenius mythology/theology incorporates a lot of wacky ideas that other people, like Szukalski, apparently sincerely believe.

The wiki page on Szukalski is worth a read.

 

[Correa Neto]

...snip...
Here is a fascinating webpage by an artist (scultor/anatomist) who looked at purported Bigfoot and Yeti type creature footprints and plaster casts. He went and made drawings of what those feet would look like if real creatures had made the imprints. But, it seems that the artist is a believer.
...snip...

Someone please tell me that site is a joke...

I think that all mentally deficient cretins, morons, idiots and mongoloids are actually not so much mentally sick as closer in their heritage to the Apes than to Humans. If they were brought up by Apes, they probably would fare no less well than these, but as human children they are deficient.

And...

Just like the Eta people of Japan were until lately NEVER permitted by the Japanese nation to serve in the Imperial Army, all of human society, in a conscious scheme for SURVIVAL, should NEVER, NEVER, NEVER permit these Yetinsyny to participate in any form of politics or the military service.

Plus...

Politically, they forever remain... socialists and therefore, potential communists, because they cannot forgive humankind its popularity with the opposite sex. Humans love and are loved. Yetinsyny love human women and men, but are never loved in return by them.

Wait, there's more...

Let me reproduce a clipping from an American paper that will explain what is behind Churchill's facial expression, why he helped Roosevelt betray half of Europe, giving eleven nations over to Communism at Yalta.

Follow WP's linkie for more ignorance, prejudice and hyper-bloated ego.

 

[shandyjan]

Here is a fascinating webpage by an artist (scultor/anatomist) who looked at purported Bigfoot and Yeti type creature footprints and plaster casts. He went and made drawings of what those feet would look like if real creatures had made the imprints. But, it seems that the artist is a believer.there.

Wow...just wow! Words fail me!

 

[William Parcher]

 

[WGBH]

Merry X-mas WP

 

[XBoxWarrior]

JREFer's love teh Trolling Big Footers...

/meh
//it's a foot envy thang
///would you like a free psychic reading?
////get my drift?