why Nuclear Physics cannot be entirelly correct

[Wowbagger]

pedrone, is English your native language?

I suspect much of the difficulty you might be having in this thread might stem from subtle (but important) differences in how its participants are using certain words.

 

[pedrone]

The spin orbit interaction cannot have the magnitude of the strong force, because the strong force actuates in the range less than 2fm.
While the spin orbit interaction actuate in the range of 20fm, which is the diamenter of the nucleus

Citation?

The diameter of the nucleus is in the range of 1.6 fm (10-15 m) (for a proton in light hydrogen) to about 15 fm (for the heaviest atoms, such as uranium)
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_the_diameter_of_nucleus#ixzz1IWlCYbT4


However, the Coulomb force between protons has a much larger range and becomes the only significant force between protons when their separation exceeds about 2.5 fm.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...=pt-BR&ct=clnk&gl=br&source=www.google.com.br

 

[Reality Check]

Ben M,
a factor 2 cannot save you.

Remember:

1. "spin-interaction" does not exist.
2. And "spin-interaction' does not exist!
3. But nuclear spin-orbit interaction does exist and splits the nuclear energy levels.

Your factor of 100 is a fantasy. So ben m does need need saving. You need to learn to read and understand that the spin-orbit interaction is not electromagnetic and the factor of 137 between the coupling constants (not strengths) of the string and electromagnetic forces is not relevant.

 

[ben m]

Ben M,
a factor 2 cannot save you.

That factor of two is a correction to your statement about the size of the magnetic moment, not to any statements about the magnetic moment being important for nuclear structure.

You need a factor 100, in order to explain why the spin-interaction can influence the strong-interaction.

So, the question is:
can the spin produce interactions with the magnitude of the strong force ?

You don't seem to care, you just want the answer to be "NUCLEAR PHYSICS IS WRONG". You seem to keep telling yourself that whether I answer you or not. So: you found us out---"nuclear physics" is something that Exxon-Mobil ginned up last month in order to prevent Andrea Rossi from getting any respect. I myself am one of the conspirators; "Maria Goeppert-Mayer" was one of my many pseudonyms when time-traveling. If you read any of my MGM papers backwards, extracting every 15th letter, and with the book of Leviticus (KJV) as a one time pad, it contains instructions for building an antigravity machine. Also: there's no such thing as a neutron, so don't cross the streams. Good luck!

 

[pedrone]

Remember:

1. "spin-interaction" does not exist.
2. And "spin-interaction' does not exist!
3. But nuclear spin-orbit interaction does exist and splits the nuclear energy levels.

1. 
   
   So, you hope to save Nuclear Physics by using the words.
   
   Then, instead of writting spin-interaction, if I call it spin-orbit-interaction, then you will accept my arguments
   

 

[Reality Check]

pedrone, citation for the spin-orbit interaction having a range of 20 fm

The spin orbit interaction cannot have the magnitude of the strong force, because the strong force actuates in the range less than 2fm.
While the spin orbit interaction actuate in the range of 20fm, which is the diamenter of the nucleus

The nuclear force does "actuate" within 1.7 fm.

Your citations (nucleus size, Columb forces) have nothing to with the nuclear force or the spin-orbit interaction.

So pedrone,
What is your citation for the spin-orbit interaction having a range of 20 fm?

 

[Reality Check]

So, you hope to save Nuclear Physics by using the words.

Then, instead of writting spin-interaction, if I call it spin-orbit-interaction, then you will accept my arguments

No.
By using ths proper term you will show that you are capable of learning the proper term.


Now can you learn what the spin-orbit interaction is and that is is nothing to do with electromagnetism?
spin-orbit interaction

In quantum physics, the spin-orbit interaction (also called spin-orbit effect or spin-orbit coupling) is any interaction of a particle's spin with its motion. The first and best known example of this is that spin-orbit interaction causes shifts in an electron's atomic energy levels due to electromagnetic interaction between the electron's spin and the nucleus's magnetic field. This is detectable as a splitting of spectral lines. A similar effect, due to the relationship between angular momentum and the strong nuclear force, occurs for protons and neutrons moving inside the nucleus, leading to a shift in their energy levels in the nucleus shell model. In the field of spintronics, spin-orbit effects for electrons in semiconductors and other materials are explored and put to useful work.

The Wiki article goes on to show how to get the splitting of the atomic energy levels from atomic spin-orbit interactions from semiclassical electrodynamics and non-relativistic quantum mechanics. That is because it is relatively easy to derive the energy splitting that way and gives a good approximation.

The nuclear case is a lot more complex from what little I remember from my nuc. phys. lectures.

 

[pedrone]

Ben M,
a factor 2 cannot save you.

That factor of two is a correction to your statement about the size of the magnetic moment, not to any statements about the magnetic moment being important for nuclear structure.

Ben,
the factor 2 is NOT a diference in the magnitude. The difference of the factor 2 is due to physical conditions into the proton's body.

But as both the spin of magnetons and the angular momenta of the quarks produce the proton magnetic moment, then the spin of magnetons produce a magnetism which magnitude is 100 times weaker than the strong force

 

[pedrone]

now can you learn what the spin-orbit interaction is and that is is nothing to do with electromagnetism?
spin-orbit interaction
quote:
In quantum physics, the spin-orbit interaction (also called spin-orbit effect or spin-orbit coupling) is any interaction of a particle's spin with its motion. The first and best known example of this is that spin-orbit interaction causes shifts in an electron's atomic energy levels due to electromagnetic interaction between the electron's spin and the nucleus's magnetic field.

it's a joke ?

 

[Reality Check]

it's a joke ?

Your inability to read and quote mining is defintiely a joke !


spin-orbit interaction

In quantum physics, the spin-orbit interaction (also called spin-orbit effect or spin-orbit coupling) is any interaction of a particle's spin with its motion. The first and best known example of this is that spin-orbit interaction causes shifts in an electron's atomic energy levels due to electromagnetic interaction between the electron's spin and the nucleus's magnetic field. This is detectable as a splitting of spectral lines. A similar effect, due to the relationship between angular momentum and the strong nuclear force, occurs for protons and neutrons moving inside the nucleus, leading to a shift in their energy levels in the nucleus shell model. In the field of spintronics, spin-orbit effects for electrons in semiconductors and other materials are explored and put to useful work.

FYI: the bit in italics is about the atomic spin-orbit interaction.
You do know what atomic means?

Note the lack of "electromagnetic" in the description of the nuclear spin-orbit interaction.
You do know what nuclear means?

 

[Sideroxylon]

So, you hope to save Nuclear Physics by using the words.

Then, instead of writting spin-interaction, if I call it spin-orbit-interaction, then you will accept my arguments

Might hope forlornly to have a meaningful discussion.

 

[ThunderChunky]

So, you hope to save Nuclear Physics by using the words.

Not me. I am sending some 5 year olds off to attack elephants...I taught them karate myself. I will save nuclear physics.

 

[Aepervius]

Ben M,
a factor 2 cannot save you.

That factor of two is a correction to your statement about the size of the magnetic moment, not to any statements about the magnetic moment being important for nuclear structure.



You don't seem to care, you just want the answer to be "NUCLEAR PHYSICS IS WRONG". You seem to keep telling yourself that whether I answer you or not. So: you found us out---"nuclear physics" is something that Exxon-Mobil ginned up last month in order to prevent Andrea Rossi from getting any respect. I myself am one of the conspirators; "Maria Goeppert-Mayer" was one of my many pseudonyms when time-traveling. If you read any of my MGM papers backwards, extracting every 15th letter, and with the book of Leviticus (KJV) as a one time pad, it contains instructions for building an antigravity machine. Also: there's no such thing as a neutron, so don't cross the streams. Good luck!

Nominated

 

[Tubbythin]

Hmm. Atomic spin-orbit interaction acts to lower energy levels of atomic electrons with anti-parallel spin and orbital angular momentum vectors by a small amount (mev?). Nuclear spin-orbit interaction acts to lower energy levels of nucleons with parallel spin and orbital angular momentum vectors by a large amount (MeV). They are clearly exactly the same thing .

 

[Last of the Fraggles]

I don't know about the physics here but I 'believe that a 5 years old child can bring down an elephant with a karate blow'. What do I win? *Hopes its an elephant and not a 5 years old karate kicking child*

 

[Dancing David]

there are people very proud of their ignorance and inability to understand a single scientific argument

 

[Dancing David]

Instead of continuing to say nonsenses, I suggest everybody to invite a nuclear theorist to come in here, so that to explain us how the spin-interaction can influence the proton-neutron interaction according to Nuclear Physics.

I suggest you explain your self. Starting with your understanding of spin-interaction.

 

[dafydd]

Oh my god


We are not interested in Pauli Principle

The question here is: what is the magnitude of the spin-interaction???

Dont you understand it yet ?

Yes,but you don't.

 

[Dancing David]

I did not say that the spin is electromagnetic.

I said that the spin-interaction is electromagnetic, which is totally different.

So, the spin-interaction of a proton is electromagnetic.


Now, please respond: what produces the magnetic moment of a proton ?

What do you mean by spin interaction?

 

[pedrone]

There is no such thing as "spin-interaction".
There is the spin-orbit interaction which is a quantum mechanical effect causing a shift in the energy levels of bound particles. Those energy levels are "electromagnetic" only in the sense that an electron or nucleon changes levels by emitting or absorbing light. They are not caused by electromagnetism.

For the understanding of the lay-men:

1- Spin-orbit-interaction: in such form of interaction between two particles, one moves about the other (that's why its name is spin-orbit-interaction)

2- Scaterring- is the collision between two nucleons. For example, in the scattering proton-neutron, they move in contrary direction, and collide.
There is not motion of a particle about the other.
This is just what happens in the proton-proton collisions in the LHC.
In such form of collisions, it's possible to have interaction between the spins of the two particles. It is spin-interaction.


3- Singlet: status in which the spin of particles are essentially antiparallel

4- Triplet: status in which the spin of particles are essentially parallel


From page 770 of the book Quantum Physics, by Eisberg & Resnick (translated from portuguese), regarding the scaterring proton-neutron experiments:

As some of the interactions occur in the singlet status, the data supply informations which, after analysis, show that the potential regarding to the singlet status is about 40% weaker than the potential regarding to the triplet status.

There is no such thing as "spin-interaction".

Therefore, according to Reality Check, the spins of protons never interact in the LHC experiments



My god,
I have fun here