Why not war against Islam?

[bikerdruid]

You keep going back to this false dichotomy.

Pointing out that you make fallacious, hasty generalizations regarding 1/5th of the world's population is not the same thing as "liking" the islamists.

We're not passing judgement on the islamists.

We're simply pointing out the irrationality of your stance.

Over ... and over ... and over.

bill.....read this post at least twice.

 

[Bill Thompson]

Note to self. Transcribe this.

 

[Bill Thompson]

wow.

I know. Right?

You keep going back to this false dichotomy.

Pointing out that you make fallacious, hasty generalizations regarding 1/5th of the world's population is not the same thing as "liking" the islamists.

We're not passing judgement on the islamists.

We're simply pointing out the irrationality of your stance.

Over ... and over ... and over.

I think you are motivated by the part I hilited. This does not matter. I mean, it matters to you. Not to me. And it should not matter to anyone at all. What if it was only 70 people? What if it was only a few thousand? What if it was just on guy, like Brian David Mitchell?

I believe it is this 1/5th of the world's population that bothers you, not anything that I have said.

I also think it is the fact that, to you, what a people has faith in is exactly what a peson is.

These are not valid.

Like I have said before, today we look back at what almost everyone believed 3 thousand years ago and think how silly (more than 1/5th) humanity thought.

Because of this, it is logical to assume that peopel 3 thousand years from now will do the same to us. Or at least what 1/5th of us believe.

But we have the internet and a free exchange of ideas to keep us from being killed. This will speed things up.

This person thinks so:


The bottom line is that Islam is a lie. It is bad to believe a lie. It is bad to let the belief in a lie slide among your fellow men without telling them, "dude, you know this is not true, right?". It is just like Mormonism. It is just like Scientology. All this "... all religions are bad..." bs is just fine and dandy and I was willing to look the other way until they started stepping on my toes.

So it really does not matter if only a few of them are out to kill me. They all believe what is logically untrue.

 

[Bill Thompson]

bill.....read this post at least twice.

Yeah, and each time I read it I see that both you and he ignored this:

http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/2952.htm

 

[Bill Thompson]

bill...the tea party is a homophobic institution.
christian africa is extremely homophobia, spurred on by american evangelicals, queers are being arrest in ghana, and the death penalty is being considered in uganda.
i will not judge all christians based on small factions of evangelical whackos, anymore than i will judge all muslims based on a minority of extremist whackos.

I hope you know that the tea party guys are not out to lynch you. That is not the same with most of the muslims on earth. AND No, I am not generalizing like some people here who think their GED levels the playing field think.

 

[bikerdruid]

Yeah, and each time I read it I see that both you and he ignored this:

http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/2952.htm

yes, as i would ignore youtube or WND.
memri is run by american zionists.....hardly objective.

 

[Bill Thompson]

http://womenagainstshariah.blogspot.com/2011/06/kenyan-muslim-leaders-call-for-death.html

Kenyan Muslim leaders call for death penalty for gays

Muslim leaders in Kenya have called on the government to introduce the death penalty for homosexuals and to boycott their businesses, media reports said Monday.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-IYFOaZWR9...8/s1600/gays%2Bhomosexual%2Bmen%2Bkissing.JPG"Death is the only punishment prescribed by Islam for such people as done in China and Iran," the Daily Nation quoted Sheikh Mohammed Khalifa, of the Council of Imams and Preachers of Kenya, as saying.

"We are asking Kenyans to shun businesses owned by such people and further show them open discrimination as a way of stopping the beastly act," he told reporters at an anti-homosexual workshop.

"They grossly abuse rights of others and should not be accepted among the society," he said.

The workshop was attended by more than 150 madrassa teachers and was called to address the problem of sexual abuse of boys.

Another participant at the work shop, Sheikh Majid Obeid also blamed Kenya's recent drought on "illicit activities."

"The rising cost of living and drought are due to the behaviour of these Kenyans who are not ready to change," he said.

An attempt last year by a Ugandan member of parliament to introduce the death penalty caused international outrage. The government rejected the death penalty but parts of the legislation proposed are still under discussion.

Homosexuality is illegal in most African countries. Those who show their gay orientation openly often face violence as well as discrimination.

 

[Bill Thompson]

yes, as i would ignore youtube or WND.
memri is run by american zionists.....hardly objective.

What is the root word of "ignorant"?

I am just asking.

Show me how you know the Memri is run by american zionists.
Show me how the information is biased or fabricated or edited or contrived.

http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2009/05/28/talk-about-pushing-the-envelope/

I am not gay, but odds are everyone is or is going to have a homosexual in their family. So we should not tolerate intolerance and the excuse that it happens far away does not work anymore.

 

[bikerdruid]

[qimg]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-IYFOaZWR9NM/TgEqA6H37CI/AAAAAAAAFl0/-ygK3rw2188/s320/gays%252Bhomosexual%252Bmen%252Bkissing.JPG[/qimg]

http://womenagainstshariah.blogspot.com/2011/06/kenyan-muslim-leaders-call-for-death.html

Kenyan Muslim leaders call for death penalty for gays

i see your 'crazy muslims' and raise you more crazy xtians.
http://www.alternet.org/news/147177..._help_uganda_'kill-the-gays'_bill_stay_alive/

Arch-Conservative U.S. Christians Help Uganda 'Kill-the-Gays' Bill Stay Alive
Uganda's anti-gay bill, which espouses the death penalty for homosexual acts, still lives -- with the help of the U.S. religious right.

 

[A'isha]

http://womenagainstshariah.blogspot.com/2011/06/kenyan-muslim-leaders-call-for-death.html

Kenyan Muslim leaders call for death penalty for gays

See that part of the article you quoted, Bill, the one where it talks about how a member of parliament in Uganda tried to get a law calling for the death penalty for homosexuals passed? And how parts of the legislation are still under discussion?

I'll give you three guesses what religion that MP, Davad Bahati, belongs to. Hint: he's not a Muslim.

 

[Foster Zygote]

I am not gay, but odds are everyone is or is going to have a homosexual in their family. So we should not tolerate intolerance and the excuse that it happens far away does not work anymore.

It isn't just happening far away. Are you suggesting that persecution of homosexuals is something unique to Muslims? You do know that Christianity and other religions have persecuted and murdered plenty of homosexuals themselves, yes?

 

[Foster Zygote]

I hope you know that the tea party guys are not out to lynch you. That is not the same with most of the muslims on earth. AND No, I am not generalizing like some people here who think their GED levels the playing field think.

Claiming that linking to images of homophobic violence somehow proves that most of the Muslims on Earth want to lynch homosexuals is just an incredibly fatuous argument. It's like running a search for "drunken Irishman" and then claiming that the result demonstrates that all Irish men are perpetually drunk.

 

[Bill Thompson]

Claiming that linking to images of homophobic violence somehow proves...

Didn't read much further.

I did not say "hey, look at these images, it proves that most muslims want to kill homosexuals..."

Stop saying things that I do not say. It is way uncool. It is as if you want to win an argument and you sacrifice your own respectability and credibility to do so.

I was not using the images as proof. The real proof is in the QUran which has 4 times as many passages against gays as the bible. And unlike the bible, the quran claims to be the literal word of God.

Foster Zygote: Epic Logic Fail.

 

[Bill Thompson]

It isn't just happening far away. Are you suggesting that persecution of homosexuals is something unique to Muslims?

You got this idea in your head that everyone you do not want to believe is an idiot. Flush out the headgear, man. I am not eight years old.

 

[A'isha]

First of all, yeah, if you deliberately spread AIDS knowingly to people, yeah, you should be put down. If you read the whole Op-Ed piece you will see that there are two sides to this story. you are just picking the side that suits you.

Um, Bill...the "other side" of the story that you quote there is the Family Research Council, a far-right, fundamentalist Evangelical Christian group so well known for its vile stances on homosexuality and gay rights that the SPLC lists it as a hate group.

And, in any case, Perkins is lying, since while the proposed bill does say that the death penalty is for "aggravated homosexuality" (while "regular" homosexuality gets the lenient punishment of life in prison). And while "aggravated homosexuality" does include such things as being HIV-positive and engaging in homosexual acts or engaging in homosexual acts with someone under the age of 18, it also includes being a "serial offender" (which, per the bill itself, means, "a person who has previous convictions of the offfense of homosexuality or related convictions").

So, under this law, all a gay person has to do is be convicted a few times of the lesser offenses of "attempting to commit homosexuality", "aiding and abetting homosexuality", "conspiracy to engage in homosexuality", "same sex marriage", or "promotion of homosexuality" - not a single one of which requires being HIV-positive or being involved with anyone under the age of eighteen, and it's death.

 

[A'isha]

I was not using the images as proof. The real proof is in the QUran which has 4 times as many passages against gays as the bible.

List them. Side by side.

And unlike the bible, the quran claims to be the literal word of God.

Unlike the Bible?!

A third of all Americans would disagree with you, Bill.

I see your knowledge of Christianity is right on par with your knowledge of Islam.

You got this idea in your head that everyone you do not want to believe is an idiot. Flush out the headgear, man. I am not eight years old.

So, what do you think of the proposed Christian law in Uganda, Bill, which would make it illegal to marry someone of the same sex or even "attempt" to engage in consenting adult homosexual acts...and if you get caught trying to do it enough times, you will be killed.

 

[Bill Thompson]

We are at war with Islam. It is who we are. It is how we have evolved. We go to war with stupid ideas when better ones come about. It is what the 1700's Age of Reason and The Enlightenment were all about. The MidEast is just playing catch-up.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Didn't read much further.

I doubt the veracity of this that claim. I strongly suspect that you did read it, but you are ignoring it because it points out just how appallingly bad an argument you made when you posted that link. It's no different than posting a link to a Google image search for "Christian gay bashing" and presenting it as evidence that most of the Christians on Earth support violence against homosexuals. It isn't even remotely logical. It's just an incredibly foolish argument.

I did not say "hey, look at these images, it proves that most muslims want to kill homosexuals..."

Yes, you did. When you post images resulting from a Google search of "gays lynched Islam", and the sentence in which you embed that link is "That is not the same with most of the Muslims on Earth", then you are saying that most of the Muslims on Earth want homosexuals to be lynched. You are either incredibly bad at expressing your intent linguistically, or you are being an intellectual coward by trying to back out of what you just wrote. If you had posted an image search for "black man rapist" and then written "That is not the same with most of the black men on Earth" it would have been no less reprehensible and stupid an argument than what you did post.

Stop saying things that I do not say. It is way uncool. It is as if you want to win an argument and you sacrifice your own respectability and credibility to do so.

But you did say it. Denying it now is just intellectual cowardice.

I was not using the images as proof.

Here you are again, trying to weasel out of what you presented as evidence that, your own words here, of what "most of the Muslims on Earth" want.

The real proof is in the QUran which has 4 times as many passages against gays as the bible.

List them. Show me where the Koran specifically orders followers to murder homosexuals.

By the way, when you link to stuff that you wan't to present as support of your claims (like that Scientology/Germany thing), you should probably actually look at the results before you post them. This image was right up near the top of your search results.

And unlike the bible, the quran claims to be the literal word of God.

I asked you before and was ignored, please tell us where the Bible says that it is not meant to be taken literally.

Foster Zygote: Epic Logic Fail.

I'm perfectly happy to let everyone who reads this thread be the judge of whether your arguments have proved superior to mine.

 

[Foster Zygote]

You got this idea in your head that everyone you do not want to believe is an idiot. Flush out the headgear, man. I am not eight years old.

You seem to need to believe that this is true. But the fact is that there are a great many people with whom I disagree whom I regard to be highly intelligent people worthy of my respect. My opinion of your arguments is derived from their own content, not the mere fact that I do not agree with them.

 

[Foster Zygote]

We are at war with Islam.

No, you are at war with Islam.