Why is homosexuality wrong?

[XenonII]

Wrong. Remember all those people with multiple wives and concubines after the 10 commandments? They where not shown to be in violation of them for that reason alone.

Biblical adultery is sleeping with someone else's wife anyway(well unless she is the wife of your late brother, then you are sinful if you don't screw her and get her knocked up)

Wrong. God created marriage to be between one man and one woman, not two men, one man and two women or a man and his horse. Biblical adulturey is sleeping with someone of whom you are not married to, engaging in fornication or sodomy.

 

[ImaginalDisc]

Wrong. God created marriage to be between one man and one woman, not two men, one man and two women or a man and his horse. Biblical adulturey is sleeping with someone of whom you are not married to, engaging in fornication or sodomy.

This gets a one word rebuttal:

Solomon.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Normal people don't engage in sexual activity in public bathrooms but homosexuals do.

And what the Heck does that matter?! OK, so having sex in bathrooms is immoral. Fine. Then individuals who do it are immoral. But... how does it translate to homosexuality being immoral? It's like me saying it's immoral to be black because some black people rap, and I find rapping immoral.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Wrong. God created marriage to be between one man and one woman, not two men, one man and two women or a man and his horse. Biblical adulturey is sleeping with someone of whom you are not married to, engaging in fornication or sodomy.

Evidence? This would seem to go against all those Patriarchs in the bible who have wives and concubines and never seem to be denigrated because of it.

Please provide quotations of the verses that support your statement.

See these for the it is OK side

Genesis 4:19
And Lamech took unto him two wives.

Genesis 16:1-4
Now Sarai Abram's wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar. And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the LORD hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai. And Sarai ... gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife. And he went in unto Hagar, and she conceived.

Genesis 25:6
But unto the sons of the concubines, which Abraham had....

Genesis 26:34
Esau ... took to wife Judith the daughter of Beeri the Hittite, and Bashemath the daughter of Elon the Hittite.

Genesis 28:9
Esau .. took ... Mahalath the daughter of Ishmael ... to be his wife.

Genesis 31:17
Then Jacob rose up, and set ... his wives upon camels.

Genesis 32:22
He [Jacob] ... took his two wives, and his two womenservants.

Ex.21:10
If he take him another wife....

Dt.21:15
If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated....

Judges 8:30
And Gideon had threescore and ten sons of his body begotten: for he had many wives.

1 Sam.1:1-2
Elkanah ... had two wives; the name of the one was Hannah, and the name of the other Peninnah.

2 Sam.12:7-8
Thus saith the LORD God of Israel ... I gave thee ... thy master's wives....

1 Kg.11:2-3
Solomon ... had seven hundred wives ... and three hundred concubines.

1 Chr.4:5
And Ashur the father of Tekoa had two wives, Helah and Naarah.

2 Chr.11:21
Rehoboam ... took eighteen wives, and threescore concubines.

2 Chr.13:21
But Abijah waxed mighty, and married fourteen wives....

2 Chr.24:3
Jehoiada took for him two wives....

Mt.25:1
Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

1 Tim.3:2
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife....

Titus 1:6-7
If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. For a bishop must be blameless.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Wrong. God created marriage to be between one man and one woman, not two men, one man and two women or a man and his horse.

Marriage predates Christianity by a long way. God had not even been invented by the time marriage had been. Oh, and I'm still waiting for your empirically tested and peer reviewed evidence that God exists, that He hates homosexuals, that the homosexuals themselves are mentally ill, that demons exist, that demons can and do possess homosexuals, that Hell exists and is like the Hell portrayed by Christians, and that humans have souls, some of which are teleported there magically when their host bodies perish.

See, if you absolutely have to make an appeal to authority fallacy, you have to start by proving that the authority actually exists. Then move on to his credentials. I'd have thought that was a given, but apparently for many fundies it isn't.

Biblical adulturey is sleeping with someone of whom you are not married to, engaging in fornication or sodomy.

Book, chapter and verse, please. And again, I'm still waiting for your empirically tested and peer reviewed evidence that God exists, that He hates homosexuals, that the homosexuals themselves are mentally ill, that demons exist, that demons can and do possess homosexuals, that Hell exists and is like the Hell portrayed by Christians, and that humans have souls, some of which are teleported there magically when their host bodies perish. Oh, and that the Bible is the Word of God and infallible. And that God created the world. And that He is infallible and almighty. This list is getting long.

See, if you absolutely have to make an appeal to authority fallacy, you have to start by proving that the authority actually exists. Then move on to his credentials. I'd have thought that was a given, but apparently for many fundies it isn't.

Genesis 16:1-4
Now Sarai Abram's wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar. And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the LORD hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai. And Sarai ... gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife. And he went in unto Hagar, and she conceived.

At least in Judaism, you're permitted to take a second wife if the first has failed to give you a child after 30 years. Wouldn't surprise me if Christianity has a similar rule.

 

[ponderingturtle]

This gets a one word rebuttal:

Solomon.

Oh we have way more than that, you can hardly find a patriarch in the bible who did not have several wives and screwed his wives handmaidens(which she sent to him, so seemingly good kinky fun).

 

[ImaginalDisc]

Oh we have way more than that, you can hardly find a patriarch in the bible who did not have several wives and screwed his wives handmaidens(which she sent to him, so seemingly good kinky fun).

Yes, but Solomon's a particularly eloquent example, IMO, because he truly was God's BFF and he had more wives than nights in the year to spend with them.

If God doesn't approve of bigamy, then he should not have been Solomon's BFF.

 

[XenonII]

Let's just assume, entirely for the sake of argument, that you are right about homosexuality having no genetic component. Further, let's assume that people choose to be attracted to people of the same sex.

How does that lead to the conclusion that homosexuality "is always wrong?" Is that because the Bible says so? The Bible says rabbits are an abomination, and so are lobsters, vegetable gardens, and cheeseburgers, but wholesale genocide, rape, and slavery are perfectly fine, according to the Bible. Do you really consider the Bible to be a perfect moral guide?

People MAY not choose to be attracted to the same sex BUT they certainly choose to act on it, and engaging in homosexual behavior is what defines one as a homosexual, in the same way that going around murdering people makes one a serial killer. They choose not to seek help for their illness but instead wallow in their depravity. Same-sex attraction is a mental illness and was recognized as such by the American Psychological Association (APA) until 1973, when under intense political pressure from homosexual activits the APA's board of trustees finally caved in to the sexual deviants demands and removed homosexuality from its official list of psychiatric disorders.

Homosexuality is always wrong because it is an unnatural and unhealthy act. It spreads diseases and it shortens a persons lifespan substantially. Sex was designed by the Creator for procreation within a monogamous lifelong marriage and two men or two women cannot procreate. Marriage is also defined as a union between one man and one woman. If everyone chose to be a homosexual the human species would soon become extinct. If people were supposed to be homosexual there wouldn't be two seperate genders! Homosexuality is an environmentally unfriendly lifestyle. It is a major cause of the spread of AIDS.

The Bible does not say that rabbits are an abomination, or lobsters, vegetable gardens, and cheeseburgers (the last one is obviously not even mentioned in the Bible which was written thousands of years before the first McDonalds!). I have never heard such folly! It does not even claim homosexuls are an abomination, what they do however most certainly is. God does not create abominations and yes, I do consider the Bible to be a perfect moral guide because it is the word of God and God knows best.

 

[Terry]

The Bible does not say that rabbits are an abomination, or lobsters, vegetable gardens, and cheeseburgers. [...] His word is final.

Leviticus, 11:10-12

10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:
11 They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination.
12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

Dinner at Red Lobster again then?

 

[DoubtingStephen]

OK, so having sex in bathrooms is immoral.

I'd go along with the idea that having sex in public bathrooms is rude, in very poor taste, and usually illegal (for good reasons too). But this would apply equally to all people, regardless of their sexual orientation or the genders of the participants. Even Republican legislators should be discouraged from having sex in public bathrooms, IMHO.

As far as having sex in a private bathroom is concerned, I'd say it is silly, uncomfortable, and morally and legally neutral.

 

[DoubtingStephen]

engaging in homosexual behavior is what defines one as a homosexual

ERROR: inconsistent with objective reality.

 

[boloboffin]

XenonII, Jesus Christ dipped his pen in the red ink when he said that lusting after a woman in your heart makes you an adulterer. He didn't require the actual activity. Just the thought was enough to make the label fit.

Homosexuality isn't confined to the act. It is based on the desire. This is just simple Christian doctrine. If ever once you contemplated having recreational sex with male or female partners, you are a sexual deviant by your own definition.

This is how Christianity screws with your head. It takes the basic human desires that we have evolved to have, and condemns them. If they get you to believing it's true, then you have taken the bridle into your own mouth, and your social superiors can make you do anything, from building a pyramid to voting Republican.

There is nothing unnatural about homosexuality. There is nothing wrong with sexuality in general. There is nothing unnatural about loving someone and wanting to give them pleasure or wanting to receive pleasure from them. It is one of the chief joys in life. When two people meet who are likeminded and responsible to each other, Heaven rejoices.

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Homosexuality is always wrong because it is an unnatural and unhealthy act. It spreads diseases and it shortens a persons lifespan substantially. Sex was designed by the Creator for procreation within a monogamous lifelong marriage and two men or two women cannot procreate. Marriage is also defined as a union between one man and one woman. If everyone chose to be a homosexual the human species would soon become extinct. Homosexuality is an environmentally unfriendly lifestyle. It is a major cause of the spread of AIDS.

Funny, while I read that, 'REPLAY' flashed in the top-right corner of my screen in bright, capitalized italic letters. Firefox feature to remind me that the arguments in the paragraph have been shot down already... in this very thread? Neat.

Oh, and I'm still waiting for your empirically tested and peer reviewed evidence that God exists, that He hates homosexuals, that the homosexuals themselves are mentally ill, that demons exist, that demons can and do possess homosexuals, that Hell exists and is like the Hell portrayed by Christians, and that humans have souls, some of which are teleported there magically when their host bodies perish.

See, if you absolutely have to make an appeal to authority fallacy, you have to start by proving that the authority actually exists. Then move on to his credentials. I'd have thought that was a given, but apparently for many fundies it isn't. <--- This board should have a Wiki-like shorthand feature. {{sk-provegod}} could translate into the above two paragraphs so I don't have to endlessly copy-paste them.

Same-sex attraction is a mental illness and was recognized as such by the American Psychological Association (APA) until 1973, when under intense political pressure from homosexual activits the APA's board of trustees finally caved in to the sexual deviants demands and removed homosexuality from its official list of psychiatric disorders.

But here's the kicker, Xenon: Was it based on logic and medical science to begin with? Nope, it wasn't. Classifying it as a mental illness was a move based on bigotry, like the classification of Africans into a separate species from Homo Sapiens.

 

[ImaginalDisc]

People MAY not choose to be attracted to the same sex BUT they certainly choose to act on it and engaging in homosexual behavior is what defines one as a homosexual in the same way that going around murdering people defines one as a serial killer.

Only to you. English language dictionaries all over the world equate having homosexual attractions with being homosexual.

They also choose not to seek help for their illness but instead wallow in their depravity.

I assume you're defining "depravity" to include all forms of homosexual sex? Two homosexuals living peacably in a cozy little house with a picket fence, a dog, and two adopted children, being entirely monogamous and attending PTSA meeting regarly are "depraved?"

Same-sex attraction is a mental illness and was recognized as such by the American Psychological Association (APA) until in 1973 under intense political pressure from homosexual activits the APA's board of trustees finally caved in to the deviants demands and removed homosexuality from its official list of psychiatric disorders.

Delusions of grandeur, such as imagining that an invisible man has given you perfect moral clarity, has also often been regarded as a mental disorder. That is neither here nor there. The point is, you must show why homosexuality is wrong without appealing to authority, which includes the Bible.

Homosexuality is always wrong because it is an unnatural and unhealthy act.

Firstly, hundreds of different species have been observed to have sex, so it is entirely natural. Secondly, since when is "unnatural" synonymous with "wrong?" Farming is unnatural, animal husbandry is unnatural. I submit to you that writing is unnatural and if that which is unnatural is wrong, then the Bible itself is morally wrong.

Sex is for procreation within marriage and two men or two women cannot procreate.

If that is what marriage is for you, that's your right. You do not, however, have the right to dictate what others do.

Marriage is also defined as a union between one man and one woman.

By whom? Certainly not the Bible.

If everyone chose to be a homosexual the human species would become extinct.

If everyone chose to be a priest, the species would go extinct. Is being a priest morally wrong?

Homosexuality is an environmentally unfriendly lifestyle.

Wait, homosexuality harms the environment? Are you sure you're not thinking of Onan?

It spreads AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases (STDs).

All sex spreads STD's. In fact, the demographic group who are contracting AIDS at the fastest rate are heterosexual women, not homosexuals of either sex.

The Bible does not say that rabbits are an abomination,

Ahem:

Leviticus 11:1 And Yahweh spake unto Moses and to Aaron, saying unto them, 2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, These are the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth. 3 Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is clovenfooted, and cheweth the cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat. 4 Nevertheless these shall ye not eat of them that chew the cud, or of them that divide the hoof: as the camel, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. 5 And the coney, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. 6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. 7 And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you. 8 Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcase shall ye not touch; they are unclean to you.

Rabbits do not have split hooves, and are therefore abominations.

or lobsters,

Ahem:

Leviticus 11:9 These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat. 10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you: 11 They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination. 12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you.

Lobsters swim in the seas, and "hath no fins nor scales" and are therefore abominations.

vegetable gardens,

Ahem:

Leviticux 19:19 Do not let your cattle have offspring by those of a different sort; do not put mixed seed into your field;

and cheeseburgers.

This stems from an interpretation of the following passages, and is part of the foundation of Kashrut: Ex 23:19, 34:26, Deut 14:21

I have never heard such folly!

Obviously, you have never read the Bible.

God does not create abominations

God created lobster, allegedly, and declared it abomination. Ergo, God creates abominations.

and yes, I do consider the Bible to be a perfect moral guide.

You might want to consider reading Genesis 19 and all of Exodus.

God created morality,

According to whom?

his standard of morality is perfect, it is far superior to man's and I would rather take his word for what is moral than a liberals anyday.

If God's morality is perfect, and it is superior to a man's, why did he haggle with Abraham about how many good men it would take to redeem Sodom? If God is morally perfect, why haggle with Abraham at all?

His word is final.

An unsubstantiated claim.

 

[XenonII]

I never heard of a heterosexual engaging in sexual activity in a public bathroom but it seems to be a fundamental part of "gay" culture.

 

[FSM]

My sweet sweet Xenon,

I thought you had gone away. How delighted I am that you are back!

Have you had a second to watch Stephen's webcam photos? I think that will really hit home the point nice and HARD here that we are all trying to express to you.

It's time that you let it go, Xenon, sweetie. It's time you come to terms with the fact that you've indeed had homosexual thoughts, and that those THOUGHTS do indeed make you gay... why else would you be fighting so hard to make it all about the ACT not the intent? You need to have a talk with Jimmie Carter, love.

But you know what? Gay is not an sin. Love with a giving, kind heart is always good even if you love a boy and you are a boy. And sex of any kind that is consensual and freely chosen is what puts the bomp in the bompdeebompdeebomp.

Any one who tells you any differently is not speaking with the voice of God. I should know. I am actually, well, I hate to sound all egotistical about it, but I am a god. (Check out my custom title over there to the left above my avatar if you don't believe me. That title is more evidence of godness than your God ever directly gave you. That means: listen to me!) I AM! as you folks say. I AM! Indeed. And let me tell you what: I AM getting laid. And I expect you to do the same.

Let it go, sweetheart. Let it go. Live free. Be happy and true to yourself. Love good and well.

I bless you, my son.

FSM
god

 

[scotth]

I never heard of a heterosexual engaging in sexual activity in a public bathroom but it seems to be a fundamental part of "gay" culture.

You are pretty damned ignorant, then. It happens at bars and clubs all the time.

 

[Hokulele]

I would guess that XenonII has never heard of the "Mile High Club". Most initiates choose the bathroom option.

 

[DoubtingStephen]

Bigotry Protection Applet Source Code

Oops, double post

 

[Safe-Keeper]

Wait, homosexuality harms the environment? Are you sure you're not thinking of Onan?

Yet another ignorant who never watch an Inconvenient Truth. Anal sex releases sperm, a very potent greenhouse liquid. Thus gays are a chief contributor to global warming. Someone fetch mhaze, he'll elaborate.