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Why fake the SoC path?

This is what is so idiotic about CIT's fantasy. When David Copperfield made the Statue of Liberty disappear, the illusion wasn't seen by everyone all around Ellis Island. It was only seen by people in one particular location and the props were useful for people only in that one location. Everyone else all around saw something very different. All the props in the vicinity of the West wall of the Pentagon meant nothing to people on the other side. The supposed illusion of a plane crashing into the Pentagon by flying slightly ahead of the fireball would not have been perceived that way by people on the opposite side. They would have thought that this plane they saw screaming over the Pentagon had dropped a bomb on the building.
Sure they might have thought that, until they turned on the news. Then they would have thought it was a second plane, and this is exactly what they reported.
Of course, David Copperfield couldn't put false information into the mainstream media.

Your claim about the FBI seizing all cameras and video cameras is also idiotic. No one seized Steve Riskus' camera and no one was going to stop him from uploading his photos to the internet a few hours later. N one seized Anthony Tribby's camera, and if he had his video camera running a little earlier, he would have caught the supposed "flyover".
So what? These videos were taken after the attack. There was no reason to have a camera pointed at the Pentagon before the attack. Those that were (security cameras, citgo cameras, sheraton cameras, etc.) were confiscated.
The argument that "they would never have risked someone taking a video of the attack" fails simply because there is no one to date that has a personal video of the Pentagon attack.
 
Since I have explained how the witnesses are fooled with deceptive media reports (e.g. Wheelehose's parroted account (more info in the Second Plane Coverstory)), and have given evidence that many people who report anomolies write them off as unimportant and do not pursue them (e.g. Margaret McBride's account), UnLovedRebel's claim that my post "violates everything we know about human perception" is utterly false.

You claim to have explained how the witnesses were "fooled" but that doesn't mean that it even would have worked. You just really, really, really, really, really, really hope that it would because otherwise your insane fantasy is dead.

So why would dtugg say that my answer is "not rational"?

Your little explanation of them flying it off course so it could be written off as the second plane makes no sense whatsoever. Perhaps you are the exception, but absolutely nobody is dumb enough to be fooled by "deceptive media reports" into believing that the large plane with American Airlines liverly at very low altitude and high speed was actually a C130 flying much higher. I sure as hell wouldn't.

Have you ever been to an airshow? I have. A large jet making a flyby at low altitude and high speed is quite a sight (and very loud). I wouldn't be fooled into thinking such a plane was a totally different one at a much higher altitude just because I heard on the news that there was one in the area at around the same time.

Time to break out the old high speed, low altitude 757 flyby video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vJliayH6co&feature=related

It comes down to an argument from incredulity. This is a completely irrational argument, but fortunately for dtugg, he'll never realize it.

Coming from you, this is absolutely hilarious.
 
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So how exactly were they able to manipulate the doppler effect so that every witness would hear it heading towards the pentagon, but not away?

doppler_shift.gif
 
So how exactly were they able to manipulate the doppler effect so that every witness would hear it heading towards the pentagon, but not away?

[qimg]http://motivate.maths.org/conferences/conf64/Images/doppler_shift.gif[/qimg]

The NWO has magic technology that can cancel the sound of jet engines!
 
Your claim about the FBI seizing all cameras and video cameras is also idiotic. No one seized Steve Riskus' camera and no one was going to stop him from uploading his photos to the internet a few hours later. N one seized Anthony Tribby's camera, and if he had his video camera running a little earlier, he would have caught the supposed "flyover".


It also begs the question: How did the FBI know about all of the cameras and camcorders, especially the personal ones, that did or may have caught the event as it happened?
 
So how exactly were they able to manipulate the doppler effect so that every witness would hear it heading towards the pentagon, but not away?


Since it was a magic trick, I'm assuming they used a really hot girl in a skimpy outfit to distract them and keep them from noticing.
 
Since I have explained how the witnesses are fooled with deceptive media reports (e.g. Wheelehose's parroted account (more info in the Second Plane Coverstory)), and have given evidence that many people who report anomolies write them off as unimportant and do not pursue them (e.g. Margaret McBride's account), UnLovedRebel's claim that my post "violates everything we know about human perception" is utterly false.

So why would dtugg say that my answer is "not rational"?

It comes down to an argument from incredulity. This is a completely irrational argument, but fortunately for dtugg, he'll never realize it.

You wrote all that with a straight face and meant it? No, no, no...that's just sad. Please tell me you were giggling up your sleeve while you wrote it.

The alternative is too depressing and takes years to recover from, if ever.

Bananaman.
 
You wrote all that with a straight face and meant it? No, no, no...that's just sad. Please tell me you were giggling up your sleeve while you wrote it.

The alternative is too depressing and takes years to recover from, if ever.

Bananaman.

TLB is a true believer. He might actually be Craig or Aldo.

Very sad for him that he has to go through life how he is. But hilarious for me. Normally I would feel a little bad laughing at people like him, but since he is also a terrorist apologist, I don't feel bad at all.
 
How disappointing. I was interested on seeing the title, and OP. I thought we might have a different discussion than all the others already hashed over several times about how, and someone might actually try to explain why.
I don't see that happening (yet).
I'm hoping someone will get to it so this thread doesn't end up merged with one of the others.
 
The engines of a 757 would be about 172 dBs (source). Kinda hard to hide a 150 ton object in broad daylight, especially when it exceeds 170 dBs. So, no one saw the plane fly over the pentagon, but better yet, no one HEARD the plane fly over the pentagon.
No. The plane was witnessed by Roosevelt Roberts as it came from around the impact area towards the South Parking Lot. It is funny that you mention the noise, since another possible flyover witness (Roseborough) reports hearing a "lion's roar" above his head and seeing the plane fly away over the south parking lot, corroborating Roberts. We do not know whether anyone inside the Pentagon heard the plane, however, since the plane flew over perhaps only two wedges of the Pentagon in 1-2 seconds, with the sound of the explosion, sirens, and paniced screams any noise from the decoy jet could have gone unnoticed. So, despite your assertion otherwise, you cannot know if anyone heard the jet from inside the Pentagon (not unusual given the circumstances), but witnesses outside most certainly did hear and see the plane.

You claim to have explained how the witnesses were "fooled" but that doesn't mean that it even would have worked. You just really, really, really, really, really, really hope that it would because otherwise your insane fantasy is dead.
No. It did work, dtugg. Every single witness to the attack jet describes it as the "second jet". But only one "jet" was seen coming from east of the Potomac, over the Navy Annex, and north of the Citgo. The "commercial jet" that everyone saw flying away from the Pentagon immediately after the attack was blended in with impossible uncorroborated claims that there was a C-130 shadowing AA77. The "flyaway plane" is the "decoy plane"



Your little explanation of them flying it off course so it could be written off as the second plane makes no sense whatsoever. Perhaps you are the exception, but absolutely nobody is dumb enough to be fooled by "deceptive media reports" into believing that the large plane with American Airlines liverly at very low altitude and high speed was actually a C130 flying much higher. I sure as hell wouldn't.
We are not talking about what witnesses saw before the exposion, but the jet many saw after the explosion. They all describe it as a "second jet". Perhaps you can't read, or are simply are ignoring my posts. Here is what you missed:

No one is aware of the RADES data that was quitely released years after the attack. The completely false claim that either a plane (unspecified) or a C130 was shadowing AA77 was parroted in the media. The report of a plane in the air immediately after the explosion would convince most people that the plane they saw was a "second plane". Others may have seen anomolies and written them off as unimportant (e.g. Margaret McBride's testimony of a "second explosion").

The fact that you even made this thread proves that you haven't even looked at the evidence. Doesn't that bother you? Don't you care that you are a pseudoskeptic?
 
Here is a little run down of what your have to believe to agree with either stories:

Official story, AKA what really happened:

1) Ranquisamo's prized, mutually exclusive thirteen witnesses are mistaken/mislead/misinterpreted.
2) AA77 flew on the flightpath that is claimed and did all the damage that is claimed.
3) All the evidence stating AA77 hit the Pentagon is real.

NoC/Pentagon flyover, AKA the stupidest hypothesis ever.

1) The NWO pulled of the greatest magic trick of all time fooling people from every single angle.
2) The NWO faked the SoC path but flew the plane NoC so that witnesses could could write if off as the second plane described by "deceptive media reports" or some other reason.
3) The NWO hired people, including USA Today journalists into saying a plane flew on the official path.
4) The NWO flew the plane on a path that at most is not even possible and at least would require bank angles reported by nobody.
5) The NWO decided to do this on the off chance that nobody would notice. Rather than say, actually flying a plane into the Pentagon. Or forget the Pentagon altogether. Surely the deaths of some 2600 people in New York and the destruction of the World Trade Center would be enough for war.
6) The NWO, without a single person noticing, managed to plant explosives in the Pentagon that created damage that fooled every single person there that a plane hit the building.
7) The NWO, without a single person noticing, managed to plant tons of plane wreckage at the Pentagon consistent with an AA 757.
8) The NWO planted a fake FDR. For some insane reason, the data is allegedly not consitant with the "official story."
9) The NWO somehow covertly destroyed lightpoles and planted them in an area consistent with the official path. This includes getting an elderly cab driver to say that a lightpole was suddenly impaled in his car at the same time the plane flew over.
10) The NWO faked RADAR data that shows AA77 did hit the Pentagon.
11 ) The NWO faked DNA results that show remains found in the Pentagon included people known to be on AA77.

Am I forgetting anything?

Which seems more likely?
 
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Your claim about the FBI seizing all cameras and video cameras is also idiotic. No one seized Steve Riskus' camera and no one was going to stop him from uploading his photos to the internet a few hours later. N one seized Anthony Tribby's camera, and if he had his video camera running a little earlier, he would have caught the supposed "flyover".

It also begs the question: How did the FBI know about all of the cameras and camcorders, especially the personal ones, that did or may have caught the event as it happened?

Here is another "why?" question for the truthers:

Why did the Federal Bureau of Investigation seized the videos?
(Hint: the answer is in the question)
 
No. It did work, dtugg. Every single witness to the attack jet describes it as the "second jet". But only one "jet" was seen coming from east of the Potomac, over the Navy Annex, and north of the Citgo. The "commercial jet" that everyone saw flying away from the Pentagon immediately after the attack was blended in with impossible uncorroborated claims that there was a C-130 shadowing AA77. The "flyaway plane" is the "decoy plane"

Circular reasoning much? Just because people saw another plane doesn't mean it was the same plane.

Prove to me that everybody saw a "commercial jet" fly away from the Pentagon. (hint: I already know that you can't and that you are a liar).

We are not talking about what witnesses saw before the exposion, but the jet many saw after the explosion. They all describe it as a "second jet". Perhaps you can't read, or are simply are ignoring my posts. Here is what you missed:

I can read. But I can also tell that you are spouting off ridiculous nonsense.

What people saw before the explosion is very relevant. If it was actually the same plane it would have been very noticeable and people would have said something. No way people just write it off as a second plane just because they heard something about it on the news.

How many people even said they saw a jet (a jet, not a plane) after the explosion (I already know the answer to this question)? At what altitude was this supposed jet?

No one is aware of the RADES data that was quitely released years after the attack. The completely false claim that either a plane (unspecified) or a C130 was shadowing AA77 was parroted in the media. The report of a plane in the air immediately after the explosion would convince most people that the plane they saw was a "second plane". Others may have seen anomolies and written them off as unimportant (e.g. Margaret McBride's testimony of a "second explosion").

You can say this all you want but that doesn't mean it would have worked and happened.

The fact that you even made this thread proves that you haven't even looked at the evidence. Doesn't that bother you? Don't you care that you are a pseudoskeptic?

No. I have looked at the evidence and am an actual skeptic unlike you and your masters. I have just concluded that the NoC/Pentogon flyover is one of the stupidest ideas of all time because that is the only conclusion that a rational person could make.


I must wonder why the hell you are even here arguing with us pseudoskeptic government loyalists. You obviously have no chance of convincing us of your fantasy. Don't you have better things to do like showing your earth shattering evidence to people that might not laugh at you and can actually do something about it? Obama is going to be President in a few weeks, maybe you can convince him. Or perhaps he is part of the coverup of the most insane, elaborate conspiracy of all time whose goal was to invade Iraq for the benefit of Bush's buddies?
 
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Here is a little run down of what your have to believe to agree with either stories:

Official story, AKA what really happened:

1) Ranquisamo's prized, mutually exclusive thirteen witnesses are mistaken/mislead/misinterpreted.
2) AA77 flew on the flightpath that is claimed and did all the damage that is claimed.
3) All the evidence stating AA77 hit the Pentagon is real.

NoC/Pentagon flyover, AKA the stupidest hypothesis ever.

1) The NWO pulled of the greatest magic trick of all time fooling people from every single angle.
2) The NWO faked the SoC path but flew the plane NoC so that witnesses could could write if off as the second plane described by "deceptive media reports" or some other reason.
3) The NWO hired people, including USA Today journalists into saying a plane flew on the official path.
4) The NWO flew the plane on a path that at most is not even possible and at least would require bank angles reported by nobody.
5) The NWO decided to do this on the off chance that nobody would notice. Rather than say, actually flying a plane into the Pentagon. Or forget the Pentagon altogether. Surely the deaths of some 2600 people in New York and the destruction of the World Trade Center would be enough for war.
6) The NWO, without a single person noticing, managed to plant explosives in the Pentagon that created damage that fooled every single person there that a plane hit the building.
7) The NWO, without a single person noticing, managed to plant tons of plane wreckage at the Pentagon consistent with an AA 757.
8) The NWO planted a fake FDR. For some insane reason, the data is allegedly not consitant with the "official story."
9) The NWO somehow covertly destroyed lightpoles and planted them in an area consistent with the official path. This includes getting an elderly cab driver to say that a lightpole was suddenly impaled in his car at the same time the plane flew over.
10) The NWO faked RADAR data that shows AA77 did hit the Pentagon.
11 ) The NWO faked DNA results that show remains found in the Pentagon included people known to be on AA77.

Am I forgetting anything?

Which seems more likely?

There are a whole series of inconvenient truths for Ranquisamo and their fanboys in this post. The only answers you're liable to get are "shill! gubmint loyalist! sheeple! of course the eeeebil NWO faked it, they can do ANYTHING!!!!11!!1!1!!!eleventy!!!!"

Their insistence on invoking unknown and in many cases nonexistent technology is like a pretechnological culture invoking dragons eating the sun to explain eclipses. Except that the pretech culture could learn the truth.
 
Am I forgetting anything?

Yes:
1) The NWO order wanted convince people that an American Airlines plane hit the pentagon so they used a white painted plane which looks nothing an AA plane.

2)The NWO somehow faked the damage to the generator. But that's really not your fault since CIT completely ignores the generator.
 
It has already been proven that the plane would not have survived flying through the explosion with all the shrapnel and other debris. Raquisimo's cartoons show the flight path directly through the explosion. If the plane were to go to the left of the impact (south parking lot) it would have been seen by many people.
 
Yes, the bodies of the 58 passengers on flight 77. 184 of the victims were positively identified through DNA. How'd the NWO pull that off?

Duh. Since it's been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that the plane didn't hit the building, any eveidence that shows it did must have been planted. WAKE UP SHEEPLE!!!!!1111!!!
 
Since I have explained how the witnesses are fooled with deceptive media reports.......

Except in order for us to swallow that load we would have to believe that every single solitary witness who observed the plane fly over the Pentagon , from any angle, later read or watched on TV , or heard on the radio about the plane having hit the Pentagon, and maybe about a second plane in the air near the Pentagon at the same time, and then decided that the second plane is what they saw and that a different aircraft which they did not see was the cause of the crash they also observed.

THE media story of the day was the crash at the Pentagon. Reports about a second plane were mere addendum to that story.

There are multiple witnesses from several angles, who saw a plane, a large, very fast, very low flying aircraft which they followed and observed it HIT the Pentagon, and reported such. None of them reported a flyover, all of them determined that the fireball occured at such a time as to be consistent with the aircraft they observed having hit the building, none of them reported that they thought it was goinmg to hit an upper floor, some describe it hitting a lower floor, some describe it hitting the lamp posts, some describe it touching the ground just in front of the Pentagon first!

ALL, every single solitary person, from all angles, who was in a position to observe the aircraft approach the building states that the plane hit the Pentagon.
__________________________________________________________
That said we can move on to the CiT/PfT complicated, complex contention that an airliner was commandeered, spirited away to parts unknown, the aircraft and persons on board killed and all disposed of, a second aircraft sent to fly over the Pentagon and drop a bomb with pin point accuracy and timing to not only cause damage consistent with a large fast mass impacting the building and tearing through it.

but also exploding such that it would create a fireball to mask the travel over the building,

while allowing the aircraft to fly low enough to fool people into believing that it hit a ground floor,

but not causing damage to this aircraft by its passage through such a fireball/debris cloud,

nor cause any vortex action to that fireball that would give away the fact that it flew through it,

and then having a third aircraft in the air nearby to allow for media reports of such an aircraft near the Pentagon to deceive all and sundry witnesses, from any angle, of the actual fly over, into thinking that this thrid aircraft is what they saw fly over the Pentagon.

During all of this 'agents' are sent to the area near the Pentagon to down lamp posts to illustrate a flight path that is grossly different that either of the two aircraft flying towards or near the Pentagon. No one at all, from any vantage point, notices these people downing these lamp posts and some people who see the posts go down somehow are deceived into believeing that they were downed by the passage of a plane that was high enough to fly over the Pentagon in a 45 degree bank (which requires the fuselage to be at least half again higher above the ground than the roofline of the Pentagon) and thus would have been easily three times the height of the lamp post.

Other 'agents' scurry about planting aircraft parts consistent with the 757 that was caused to disappear. No one sees them do this.

Furthermore the DNA of those on board is sent to the lab with the claim that it comes from investigations taking place at the Pentagon.

Sooo, LoneBedouin, does that sum up the CiT/PfT contentions or should we include an FDR that was planted even though it supposedly describes yet another flight path inconsistent with either of the two aircraft that were flying towards or near the Pentagon nor, supposedly, consistent with the path described by the downed lamp posts, on 9/11/01?
 
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LoneBedouin,
To repeat the actual topic question from the OP:
why would they fake the "offical path" but actually fly NoC. What possible purpose could this serve?

I'd love to see an answer.
 

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