• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Why did the 9-11 Truth Movement fail?

Thunder

Banned
T
Joined
Nov 18, 2006
Messages
34,918
Since it is now clear to most everyone here, that the semi-organized "Truth Movement" has failed miserably, I think we can now discuss why they failed.

I believe, they made several critical errors, and that JREF and debunkers had nothing to do with their ultimate collapse.

#1. They used novice understanding of highly technical and complicated engineering and structural issues. They did not rely solely on the opinions and observations and analysis of Phd level architects, engineers, and other scientists, regarding the WTC collapses. They allowed teenagers with a laptop and a pause button, rule the day on many of their views regarding the collapses.

#2. They allowed the alignment of their ideas, with much wackier, zanier concepts, such as "no moon landing", "NWO", "FEMA camps", "chemtrails", "evil Freemasons", "Zionist conspiracy theories", etc. These ideas, are considered by most Americans to be totally insane, rediculous, and without merit. Allowing their 9-11 theories to be in any way grouped with them..is guilt..and insignificance...by association.

#3. They allowed themselves to call anyone that counters their theories, as "agents", "shills", "paid-liars", "government loyalists", etc. All this did was make the 9-11 theorists seem extremist and unwilling and unable to accept any critisism or critiquing. This is called being fanatical..and fanatics rarely win over rational people.

#4. They allowed semi-alliances with bigoted individuals, such as anti-Semites and anti-immigrant folks. Anytime anyone spoke out about 9-11 truth, and mixed in something about Jews, Israelis, Zionists, or illegal immigrants, their arguments died..and they lost a whole audience. The bigger the audience..the bigger the loss.

#5. They allowed politics to invade their theories. True skeptics, are skeptical of ALL theoies....ALL ideas..and looks into them using real hard evidence. 9-11 truthers, are clearly guided by their hatred of Bush, Republicans, Neo-Conservatives, liberalism, and even democracy. It doesn't take a genius to realize that. Had 9-11 taken place on President Al Gore's watch, I doubt 9-11 truth would have been as popular as it was.

A true skeptic would have been just as skeptical of the 9-11 truth ideas..as they were of the government's story.

....feel free to add.
 
Last edited:
parky76 said:
why? is this not a worth while topic for discussion?
Click to expand...
Not really. You've explained your view. DGM has posted what is probably the consensus view of skeptics, and the rest of the thread is just bait for a "The Twoof Movement ain't not neither dead, nuh-uh!" fest.
 
parky76 said:
A true skeptic would have been just as skeptical of the 9-11 truth ideas..as they were of the government's story.
Click to expand...

No.

A "true skeptic" examines the evidence from all angles and sorts out the BS.

Please show me where the "truth" movement has made any attempt to do anything of the kind.
 
parky76 said:
Since it is now clear to most everyone here, that the semi-organized "Truth Movement" has failed miserably, I think we can now discuss why they failed.

I believe, they made several critical errors, and that JREF and debunkers had nothing to do with their ultimate collapse.

#1. They used novice understanding of highly technical and complicated engineering and structural issues. They did not rely solely on the opinions and observations and analysis of Phd level architects, engineers, and other scientists, regarding the WTC collapses. They allowed teenagers with a laptop and a pause button, rule the day on many of their views regarding the collapses.

#2. They allowed the alignment of their ideas, with much wackier, zanier concepts, such as "no moon landing", "NWO", "FEMA camps", "chemtrails", "evil Freemasons", "Zionist conspiracy theories", etc. These ideas, are considered by most Americans to be totally insane, rediculous, and without merit. Allowing their 9-11 theories to be in any way grouped with them..is guilt..and insignificance...by association.

#3. They allowed themselves to call anyone that counters their theories, as "agents", "shills", "paid-liars", "government loyalists", etc. All this did was make the 9-11 theorists seem extremist and unwilling and unable to accept any critisism or critiquing. This is called being fanatical..and fanatics rarely win over rational people.

#4. They allowed semi-alliances with bigoted individuals, such as anti-Semites and anti-immigrant folks. Anytime anyone spoke out about 9-11 truth, and mixed in something about Jews, Israelis, Zionists, or illegal immigrants, their arguments died..and they lost a whole audience. The bigger the audience..the bigger the loss.

#5. They allowed politics to invade their theories. True skeptics, are skeptical of ALL theoies....ALL ideas..and looks into them using real hard evidence. 9-11 truthers, are clearly guided by their hatred of Bush, Republicans, Neo-Conservatives, liberalism, and even democracy. It doesn't take a genius to realize that. Had 9-11 taken place on President Al Gore's watch, I doubt 9-11 truth would have been as popular as it was.

A true skeptic would have been just as skeptical of the 9-11 truth ideas..as they were of the government's story.

....feel free to add.
Click to expand...

Here is how I see it:

1. The truth "movement" was largely composed of angry young men, protesting authority, protesting BUSH, protesting the War, protesting the man. This works for a while, but for the most part the novelty wears off for most of them when they realize their movement is going nowhere, and that it is run by money hungry charlatans. Obama winning, is the final nail in the coffin.

2. I agree with you, their alignment with the extremely ridiculous CTs hurt them, as they were deemed by many, as insane by association.

3. They would, and still do, allow paranoia to get in the way of reason and reality.

4. They had their opportunity, in 2006, and blew it. They should have had tens of thousands down at GZ for the ani...that would have made A LOT of noise. They lacked the organizational know how or will power for that matter. It was much easier for them to whine about "nobody listening" from behind their computer screens, then to actually get out of the basement and canvas the streets for a protest. They "leaders" at the time (Fetzer, Wood, Jones) were nightmares when they got on the MSM, presenting extreme ideas without evidence, switching from topic to topic, and just presenting the worst foot forward.

5. If Bush or Cheney are charged with War Crimes, you may see a resurgence, otherwise, it is all over but the occasional "back of the library" book publication.

TAM:)
 
If I were running the truth movement, I would put all of the major Truthers together in a room and have them come up with at least a remotely plausible narrative.

This was the TM's crucial error, in my view. When the debunking started in earnest, they didn't acknowledge it and try to come up with plausible alternatives; they simply called their detractors "shills", "Bush-lovers", "government loyalists" or whatever and went on parroting the egregious factual errors that underlie most 9/11 "Twoof".

This made them look both dishonest AND stupid, as their errors were pointed out to them and still went uncorrected or even (in most cases) unacknowledged.

IMHO, the Truth movement has one last shot at mainstream attention, and that is at the 10th anniversary. If I were running the TM, I would already be gearing up for that, making one big push to get the message out on 9/11/11. I would do my best to come up with something coherent and at least plausible enough to make people go "hmmmm" and investigoogle. Of course, any investigoogling would likely lead to JREF, which wouldn't be a bad thing.

And I would lock Ranquis in their basements with no Internet access till 9/12/11.
 
parky76 said:
9-11 truthers, are clearly guided by their hatred of Bush, Republicans, Neo-Conservatives, liberalism, and even democracy. It doesn't take a genius to realize that. Had 9-11 taken place on President Al Gore's watch, I doubt 9-11 truth would have been as popular as it was.
Click to expand...

I doubt this. Remember that the JFK conspiracy theory was born under an incredibly popular Democratic President (at least until 1965).

Conspiracy theories are created because of various reasons, but they arise mostly out of wishing to create order in a turbulent world. They give meaning to our lives. What is more exciting? George Bush Snr being a fairly average man in control of the worlds most powerful nation or an intergalactic space lizard?

BTW Parky, your punctuation appears to always suffer after your first post. If you want people to take you seriously, you need to respect them by writing correctly. Pedantic that may be, but that is reality.
 
Last edited:
"Why did the 9-11 Truth Movement Fail"?

It was a child of the Internet.

If any of you are familiar with Churchill's quote, " A lie can travel around the world whilst Truth is still putting on her shoes", (or close to that) then C21 refutes it. Not only can lies fly around the world with amazing speed, so can the truth - and in this case, "truth" does not mean "lies massaged, mangled, repackaged and rewritten to prove 9-11 was an inside job".

As soon as the Twoofers came out with a lie, teh intertoobs allowed the real facts to be presented. Hence we are here in late 2008, picking over the remains of the TM. It ain't dead, exactly, just got rigor mortis of the brain.
 
parky76 said:
Had 9-11 taken place on President Al Gore's watch, I doubt 9-11 truth would have been as popular as it was.
Click to expand...
Complete nonsense. Apparently you haven't heard about the numerous (Brown, Foster, etc. ) Clinton CT's or the ones about Oklahoma City.

This quote summarizes my feelings
DGM said:
They had no evidence to support their case.

Mods time to close this one.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Undesired Walrus said:
I
BTW Parky, your punctuation appears to always suffer after your first post. If you want people to take you seriously, you need to respect them by writing correctly. Pedantic that may be, but that is reality.
Click to expand...

I will take that under serious consideration.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom