Why a one-way Crush down is not possible

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Specifically, people like Heiwa and Tony S. are helping to sow doubt about the truth of the hijacker/airplane narrative of 9/11.
On some of the many anti-semitic youtube channels which blame 9/11 on 'Zionists' etc... you will find comments like this:

'There are no, and never had been any muslim terrorists. Don't believe all the ******** crap FOX tells you. '

'911 is a mossade, cia INSIDE JOB. zioniNazis. all the proofs and evidence are there to view.
It is not that difficult to understand who benefited after 911.
still americans refuse to bring this to their media attention, they are satisfied with lies.
brainwashed with lies and hatred towards muslims and arabs,.
fascist world. '

'9/11 = Jew Job'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZIGHNmIEwg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnqWs8pAsRk

So the more you truthers undermine the evidence that the planes/fires brought down the towers, the more support you give to the alternative narrative that a Jewish cabal was responsible.

I'm not making this up; there is NO other consistently identified racial/ethnic/religious group except Jews who are being targeted by your comrades. You're feeding this monster, and it WILL kill again if it is given the chance. Or do you not recognize that at all?
 
bardamu said:
What are the odds against two plane crashes resulting in such a perfect outcome for the terrorist by sheer chance?
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0. The destruction is a certainty given the sample population and observed outcomes. It's not like flipping a coin.




bardamu said:
Off topic.
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It's on topic, it will determine if you are even worthy of discussing things in an "intelligent and lively manner" or to simply put you on ignore. No planers tend to be ignorant trolls with a chip on their shoulder an no intentions of discussing anything. The probability you are a no planer with an intelligence level capable of discussing anything related to what actually happened is 0. I don't even want to see what some ignorant no planer has to say.

This forum should be closed to no planers AFAIC. It's about time the forum mangement put an end to this level of stupidity.
 
alienentity said:
Specifically, people like Heiwa and Tony S. are helping to sow doubt about the truth of the hijacker/airplane narrative of 9/11.
On some of the many anti-semitic youtube channels which blame 9/11 on 'Zionists' etc... you will find comments like this:

'There are no, and never had been any muslim terrorists. Don't believe all the ******** crap FOX tells you. '

'911 is a mossade, cia INSIDE JOB. zioniNazis. all the proofs and evidence are there to view.
It is not that difficult to understand who benefited after 911.
still americans refuse to bring this to their media attention, they are satisfied with lies.
brainwashed with lies and hatred towards muslims and arabs,.
fascist world. '

'9/11 = Jew Job'

So the more you truthers undermine the evidence that the planes/fires brought down the towers, the more support you give to the alternative narrative that a Jewish cabal was responsible.

I'm not making this up; there is NO other consistently identified racial/ethnic/religious group except Jews who are being targeted by your comrades. You're feeding this monster, and it WILL kill again if it is given the chance. Or do you not recognize that at all?
Click to expand...

What does this have to do with a one-way crush down? :confused:
 
bardamu said:
What does this have to do with a one-way crush down? :confused:
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Heiwa disinformation is feeding the hunt for scapegoats. Since controlled demolition is at best a remote implausibility given the abundant evidence against it, the only purpose served by attention-seekers like Heiwa is to obfuscate, not to seek truth.

If Heiwa won't move on, we should. It's the decent thing to do.

We need to stop entertaining his ideas as presentable and sincere - they are not. The idea of crush-down presented by Heiwa is yet another sad attempt to fool people into doubting that fires and planes caused the collapse of the towers.

If it's ok for truthers to constantly say that CD is a fact, ergo a vast conspiracy is a fact, then it is equally relevant to say what we're saying: that this is nonsense which feeds an irrational, antisemitic movement, and serves no other real purpose.

Conclusion:
If Heiwa's theories are clearly not leading toward anything but 'no 19 hijackers, no Bin Laden' then they are leading towards 'Jews did it'.
That's how the game works. 'Blame the Jews' is the main alternative narrative out there.

Do you see the linkage now? Good. Now weep quietly as you continue to see Heiwa smear every decent scientist by default, and to defile the memory of the victims of 9/11 with persistent disinformation.
 
Bardamu - again, read the first line of that post 'Specifically, people like Heiwa and Tony S. are helping to sow doubt about the truth of the hijacker/airplane narrative of 9/11.'

It is implicit in every step of their inquiry, since they have already concluded CD must be real, and therefore SOMEONE (mainly Jews) in the US must be responsible.

Is that clear enough for you? Don't feed these trolls, kick 'em in the pills.
 
9/11 truth = 'Jews did it'
Therefore Crush down not possible = Vast Conspiracy TM = 'Jews did it'

For 9/11 truth, all roads lead to the same destination. Remember? Conclusion first (NWO/Jews), fact mining second.

The modern witch hunt wrapped in pseudo-science. Watch it and weep.
 
alienentity said:
9/11 truth = 'Jews did it'
Therefore Crush down not possible = Vast Conspiracy TM = 'Jews did it'

For 9/11 truth, all roads lead to the same destination. Remember? Conclusion first (NWO/Jews), fact mining second.

The modern witch hunt wrapped in pseudo-science. Watch it and weep.
Click to expand...

If there are witches then let there be a witch hunt. It's not inappropriate. It's an interesting parallel that a collective name for a group of government supporters on the issue of 9/11 is a ' Coven of Shills '.
 
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bill smith said:
If there are witches then let there be a witch hunt. It's not inappropriate. It's an intersting parallel that a collective name for a group of government supporters on the issue of 9/11 is 'a Coven of Shills'.
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Since you just made that up, WTF could you possibly mean by "interesting parallel"? Are all your posts this incoherent? Oh wait, this is "Bill Smith", I forgot.
 
alienentity said:
Bardamu - again, read the first line of that post 'Specifically, people like Heiwa and Tony S. are helping to sow doubt about the truth of the hijacker/airplane narrative of 9/11.'

It is implicit in every step of their inquiry, since they have already concluded CD must be real, and therefore SOMEONE (mainly Jews) in the US must be responsible.

Is that clear enough for you? Don't feed these trolls, kick 'em in the pills.
Click to expand...

Why don't you start a thread on this subject instead of disrupting this one?
 
bardamu said:
When I described the situation as the global crush-down of the towers, I was understating the actual result of the attack. It wasn't just the two towers, but the entire WTC complex, consisting of seven large buildings, that was completely destroyed.

If the terrorists had PLANNED the total destruction of the WTC complex, using only two hijacked aircraft, is there any way they could have achieved it more efficiently?

What are the odds against two plane crashes resulting in such a perfect outcome for the terrorist by sheer chance? It sounds like something that could only happen to the accident-prone Inspector Clouseau!
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What does this tripe have to do with one way crush down? Why don't you start a thread if you wish to discuss the existence of planes, or probabilities?

Quit trying to hide your trolling by blaming others of being off topic when you haven't had an on topic post yet.
 
3bodyproblem said:
What does this tripe have to do with one way crush down? Why don't you start a thread if you wish to discuss the existence of planes, or probabilities?

Quit trying to hide your trolling by blaming others of being off topic when you haven't had an on topic post yet.
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The POSSIBILITY of a one-way crush down is related to the PROBABILITY of a one-way crush down. In fact, a one-way crush down could be described as being infinitely improbable.
 
bardamu said:
The POSSIBILITY of a one-way crush down is related to the PROBABILITY of a one-way crush down. In fact, a one-way crush down could be described as being infinitely improbable.
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If it was infinitely improbable then it would be a logical certainty.
 
bardamu said:
The POSSIBILITY of a one-way crush down is related to the PROBABILITY of a one-way crush down. In fact, a one-way crush down could be described as being infinitely improbable.
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lol, OK. Please show me a calculation of said probabilities. You do know what probabilities are right? There not things you make up in your head to suit your fantasies. There's two outcomes, the buildigns fall or they don't. They did. The probability they didn't is 0. You're working with a very small sampling population (do you know what that means?) with only one observed outcome.

You don't know what you are talking about. All you have done is assigned a fake probability to you incredulity. Why would you come to a skeptical forum and make up statistics that can't be supported by any evidence and not expect to be called on it? Do you really think you will find people here that are going to suddenly bend their understanding of mathematics to suit your fancy? You may think this works in other forums, but seriously, it's not going to fly here. You are being called out as a liar, show how you arrived at your "probabilities" or admit you made them up.
 
tsig said:
If it was infinitely improbable then it would be a logical certainty.
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I love when people make up probabilities. It's not like they even try. At least make some stuff up, provide some calculations. Give us something. This "Things that I find unusual have been assigned a probablility of 0.00000009% because, well, I don't believe them to be probable" is just stupid.
 
alienentity said:
Hi Tony,

Thank you for the reply. I was just trying to determine whether you had a basic grasp of the facts. You seem to be fairly close, although the video evidence on the N tower seems to contradict your assumption that 'acceleration was consistent for the remainder of the fall,' resulting in an 11 second collapse time. It appears more like 17 seconds or more. Slightly less for the S. Tower. Just look at the frames for yourself and you can see at 11 seconds the building is still visible....

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/videos/ntc_frames.html

Generally truthers tend to underestimate the collapse times, for the towers and for WTC7. I hope you agree that building 7 required at least 14 seconds to collapse, based on the visual evidence.

Moving to Leslie Robertson, yes, I was referring to him. You correctly pointed out that he did not bother calculating the expected collapse time for the towers, but you skipped over the fact he DID calculate, or 'carried it far enough along' to determine that once the upper block began to move, nothing could have prevented the building from collapsing down essentially to the foundation.

He didn't see the necessity to calculate something which was already inevitable. The question whether the towers collapsed from structural failure due to impacts and fires was never a serious question for him, nor should it be for others who attempt to credibly study the collapses.

Unfortunately for those such as yourself, you are in a position of contradicting someone whose knowledge and expertise on the matter far exceeds your own.
The correct response is to abandon your incorrect approach and adopt the obviously superior one.

It is disappointing you haven't done that. That is the precise reason why the 9/11 truth movement is a failed concept - it refuses to learn from those who possess the greater knowledge and expertise. In fact it is hostile to that same knowledge. A fatal flaw if there ever was one.
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Even a 17 second time would still not be possible in a natural collapse of the North Tower due to conservation of momentum, so it still presents problems for the current official explanation.

However, the collapse times are not the only problems here. Without a large impulse (jolt) there is no chance that the North Tower collapsed due to natural causes and the 2.25 second or 8 story freefall of WTC 7 can only be indicative of all structural support over the full plan of the building being removed simultaneously. There is only one way that can happen and it isn't natural.

As for Leslie Robertson, he was obviously only taking a WAG at things concerning whether or not the building should collapse once it started. I doubt that he knew there is no evidence of impact, like Bazant when he wrote his papers, and thus can be forgiven for that. However, we now know there was no impulse and thus no mechanism to naturally continue the collapse. Maybe you can ask Leslie if he knows there was no discernable impulse in the fall of the upper block of the North Tower, and see what he says then.

I would very much like to not have to think that there were other forces at work in the collapses of those buildings, besides the aircraft impacts and fires. However, the above problems will not allow me to do that honestly.
 
3bodyproblem said:
I love when people make up probabilities. It's not like they even try. At least make some stuff up, provide some calculations. Give us something. This "Things that I find unusual have been assigned a probablility of 0.00000009% because, well, I don't believe them to be probable" is just stupid.
Click to expand...

There's a 90% chance that those who use probabilities in an argument just made them up. I know this because I have sampled 0% of the samples and we all know that 1/0=infinity therefore I am right 100% of the time.
 
alienentity said:
Specifically, people like Heiwa and Tony S. are helping to sow doubt about the truth of the hijacker/airplane narrative of 9/11.
On some of the many anti-semitic youtube channels which blame 9/11 on 'Zionists' etc... you will find comments like this:

'There are no, and never had been any muslim terrorists. Don't believe all the ******** crap FOX tells you. '

'911 is a mossade, cia INSIDE JOB. zioniNazis. all the proofs and evidence are there to view.
It is not that difficult to understand who benefited after 911.
still americans refuse to bring this to their media attention, they are satisfied with lies.
brainwashed with lies and hatred towards muslims and arabs,.
fascist world. '

'9/11 = Jew Job'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZIGHNmIEwg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnqWs8pAsRk

So the more you truthers undermine the evidence that the planes/fires brought down the towers, the more support you give to the alternative narrative that a Jewish cabal was responsible.

I'm not making this up; there is NO other consistently identified racial/ethnic/religious group except Jews who are being targeted by your comrades. You're feeding this monster, and it WILL kill again if it is given the chance. Or do you not recognize that at all?
Click to expand...

No one has ever heard me blame any ethnic group for perpetrating the collapses of the three buildings in NYC on Sept. 11, 2001. All I have ever said is that there needs to be an open and transparent investigation, which we have not yet had. For starters I would like those who made the decisions to scrap over 99.5% of the steel from the towers and 100% of it from WTC 7, before the NIST could do a forensic analysis on it, to testify publicly.

It is just as ignorant and ridiculous to blame those of us, who are showing the very serious problems with the current official explanation, for enflaming things concerning any specific group, as it is for anyone to blame a specific group without evidence for it. Even if those who perpetrated the events of 911 were overwhelmingly of a specific nationality it would not mean anything about others of that nationality. Italian members of the mafia have never represented others of Italian heritage. Those who commit crimes do so as individuals not nationalities. Americans in general are not guilty of endorsing the Bush administration's now known torture policy.
 
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