Why a one-way Crush down is not possible

[beachnut]

Not at all. Heiwa is busy with proving that one piece of a structure cannot crush another larger piece of an identical structure by gravity alone. For that you have to theorise a drop as Bazant does. Remember that for the government Bazant is the only game in town. Without Bazant there is only controlled demolition.

False - WTC towers prove the Heiwa axiom failed and a delusion only you believe.

Please prove Bazant's work wrong; many have tried they all failed.

FALSE - Bazant is independent study; nothing to withe the government. Why are you so bad at research. There are many studies on 911 and they all came to the same conclusion and it was the gravity collapse after impacts and fires. You need to stop posting lies.

There is no evidence on the steel of blast effects from explosives or thermite. You have proved with your own delusion thermite would be discovered the day it happen but you may of missed how your delusion exposes thermite as a failed idea.

NIST found the WTC fell due to the impacts and fires. It was a gravity collapse of 674,000,000,000 joules, over 160 TONS of TNT energy realized in each tower (I even used the weights of a dolt 911Truth believer, irony). Why do you fail to present your numbers and figures to prove your delusional CD ideas on 911? Got physics?

http://www.civil.northwestern.edu/people/bazant/PDFs/Papers/405.pdf
here it is! Please submit your paper to refute this paper! You can't. There are hundreds of studies on the WTC that make your delusion evaporate into dust if you would gain the knowledge to find them, comprehend them, and understand them. You instead regurgitate the failed ideas of other people and present no support to back up your ideas or the ideas you post. If Heiwa was a real structural engineer he could refute Bazant's paper if it was wrong but he can't; can you?

 

[alienentity]

Not at all. Heiwa is busy with proving that one piece of a structure cannot crush another larger piece of an identical structure by gravity alone. For that you have to theorise a drop as Bazant does. Remember that for the government Bazant is the only game in town. Without Bazant there is only controlled demolition.

Yes, Heiwa is trying to fool you (successfully it seems) that the impossible happened - that nonexistent explosives did the deed, placed there by nonexistent perps in a nonexistent conspiracy.

Bazant has offered some math, which can be scrutinized by anyone, and has the amazing quality that it ACTUALLY supports the evidence.

Heiwa can work 7 days a week churning out fantasy rubbish, it can never change the simple truth that the columns bowed and failed, right on camera, killing many innocent people.

You guys prefer to point the finger of blame at your own fellow citizens, and let the terrorists off the hook.

Actually, I have a lecture with Steven Jones, that great martyr of 9/11 truth sainthood, where he apologizes for and excuses Osama Bin Laden. Jones spends quite a bit of time painstakingly dissembling about a Bin Laden video where he confesses that Al Qaeda was responsible for the crime - Jones (he got some of his students to analyze the video) tries to show that it wasn't OBL, but is fake footage.
Nice work Stevie! If you guys had your way Larry Silverstein would have been executed by now, along with his family probably.

It makes the skin crawl the way these creeps operate.

Bill Smith, you're a cheerleader for these guys,dude. Wake up.

 

[bill smith]

Not at all... what? Are you convinced that the columns couldn't meet or not? Simple question.



Are you saying that the upper block didn't drop? Are they still there or is the "drop" accepted as true?Or do you theorize that the upper block should have "eased" down? I ask cuz I've seen this before. Here's why it won't ease.

http://www.civil.northwestern.edu/people/bazant/PDFs/Papers/405.pdf

The energy dissipation, particularly that due to the inelastic
deformation of columns during the initial drop of the upper
part, may be neglected, i.e., the upper part may be assumed to
move through distance h almost in a free fall ~indeed, the energy
dissipated in the columns during the fall is at most equal to 2p3
the yield moment of columns, 3 the number of columns, which is
found to be only about 12% of the gravitational potential energy
release if the columns were cold....


In layman's terms, what that means is that once they fail, they do so all of a sudden.




I don't think so.

Here's a link to prolly a hundred or so papers from authors other than Bazant that agree with NIST's overall findings. Go learn something.

http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/nist,femareports,911structuralengineerin

But don't you agree that the upper portion had 250 or more core and dperimeter columns still holding it up ? Above 85% of the priginal total before the plane destroyed about 15% of them ? Did you notice that the piece of text you reproduced kind of ignores that and suggests freefall ? Clearly that is not possible and therefore the text is deliberately misleading. Can you coment on that ?

You see what a dangerous territory this is for the government ?

 

[Seymour Butz]

But don't you agree that the upper portion had 250 or more core and dperimeter columns still holding it up ? Above 85% of the priginal total before the plane destroyed about 15% of hem ? Did you notice that the piece of text you reproduced kind of ignores that and suggests freefall ? Clearly that is not possible and therefore the text is deliberately misleading. Can you coment on that ?

You see what a dangerous territory this is for the government ?

I've replied to your questions directly, now it's your turn.

Then you can ask questions of me, and I will reply.

 

[Furcifer]

Bill Smith, you're a cheerleader for these guys,dude. Wake up.

Hence the avatar.

 

[alienentity]

It's also interesting that Heiwa continues to misrepresent Bazant's position as something from 2 days after 9/11.

In actual fact, Bazant has participated in 2 more recent publications, in peer-reviewed journals that have NO CONNECTION to 9/11, one way or the other.......try that Tony S or Heiwa!! Good luck with that...

2006
'Mechanics of Progressive Collapse:
Learning from World Trade Center
and Building Demolitions
Zdenek P. Baˇzant and Mathieu Verdure

2008
'What Did and Did not Cause Collapse of WTC Twin Towers in New York '


So of course Heiwa can only refer to the original publication in Engineering Mechanics ASCE, Sept. 28, 2001, addendum March, 2002, and pretend that there is no mature study by Bazant.

While on the subject of Heiwa and his fabrications, is he still claiming to have 1 million dollars to hand out? Has he shown any documentation to prove he has the money or is he just lying through his teeth to get more attention?

Please give me the link to show where the money is held in trust and I will accept that, no problem. If it's a lie, then he gets what he deserves, which is no repect.

 

[bill smith]

Hence the avatar.

It's been some years since my cheerleading days I will admit.

 

[alienentity]

Here's a recent picture of the Bin Laden and friends cheerleading squad, at a 9/11 truth luncheon.
The men shout in unison 'It was the Joos'. Quite hilarious and beautiful at the same time.

 

[alienentity]

It's been some years since my cheerleading days I will admit.

Hey Bill, you know where this whole 9/11 conspiracy thing eventually leads, don't you? The whole NWO idea that you are playing into... it's going back to blaming the Joos for all the world's problems.

Remember how successful Hitler was at that hysterical hatred game? You guys are bringing a new version back, one step at a time, buddy.

Way to go. I give a little Nazi salute and a brownshirt cheer for your efforts. And I mean it sincerely - you people are real pieces of work.

 

[Seymour Butz]

It's been some years since my cheerleading days I will admit.

1- do you believe that it's possible that the columns could "meet"?

2- do you believe that the upper block should have "eased" down?

 

[beachnut]

Some of the engineers here seem to believe that global crush-down was inevitable ...



... allegedly hit by planes ...

And you think what? Were the tower doomed by the impacts, fire and gravity? The correct answer is yes and the chief structural engineer of the WTC agrees with that.


Allegedly? Flight 11 and Flight 175 hit the WTC towers; it is a fact. Your allegedly make you look ignorant on 911 issues.

The towers were designed to withstand and survive aircraft impacts at 1/7 to 1/11 of the kinetic energy delivered on 911. That doomed the fire systems and destroyed the insulation. Insulation is needed to give people time to evacuate the buildings before collapse.

For terrorist killing an extra 2000 to 3000 people is icing on the cake. How cool are you joining 911Truth in apologizing for terrorists and jumping into their pit of anti-intellectual claptrap? Another hit and run posting. ?

Do you support Heiwa, or you know he idea is failed? Or do you support the failed physics of Balsamo and his pack of paranoid pilots spewing dumber ideas than Heiwa?

 

[GlennB]

But don't you agree that the upper portion had 250 or more core and dperimeter columns still holding it up ? Above 85% of the priginal total before the plane destroyed about 15% of them ? Did you notice that the piece of text you reproduced kind of ignores that and suggests freefall ? Clearly that is not possible and therefore the text is deliberately misleading. Can you coment on that ?

You see what a dangerous territory this is for the government ?

I actually don't believe you are this stupid Bill. So, your trolling has passed its sell-by date. Give it up.

 

[Seymour Butz]

But don't you agree that the upper portion had 250 or more core and dperimeter columns still holding it up ? Above 85% of the priginal total before the plane destroyed about 15% of them ?

yes

Did you notice that the piece of text you reproduced kind of ignores that and suggests freefall ? Clearly that is not possible and therefore the text is deliberately misleading. Can you coment on that ?

He explains why it couldn't "ease" down in that piece, and why he excluded the energy as insignificant.


Now:

1- do you believe the columns could meet?

2- do you think the upper block could ease down?

 

[Seymour Butz]

I actually don't believe you are this stupid Bill. So, your trolling has passed its sell-by date. Give it up.

No kiddin'.

Like Oz says, he asks the right questions, gets the answers, gets schooled by a dolt like Heiwa, then ignores them to ask new ones.....

 

[alienentity]

Here's a comment from a youtube video on the WTC7 collapse with that famous 'pull it' statement by Silverstein. I post it here to support my claim that you dissemblers are helping to build momentum in the anti-Jew witch hunt brewing in the 9/11 'truth' movement.

I quote: (ggstorms )
'Put Jew Silverstein on trial for his involvement in mass murder and crimes against humanity that occured on 9/11/01. The WTC buildings were full of asbestos and needed renovations anyway...I guess Larry thought it would be easier just to "pull it" with the added bonus of a 4 billion insurance policy specifically for terror attacks that he added 2 weeks before 9/11 happened.'

'We need to hang Larry from a lightpole and "pull" his head off his shoulders '

Pure hate speech. Would have made the Nazis really proud, I'd say.

Nice work, truthers. This is going to be your legacy. Think about it. You're feeding this monster, and if it gets big enough and strong enough, it WILL kill on your behalf, whether you ask it to or not.

A scapegoat HAS to exist for the 9/11 movement. The Jews are already one of the prime targets. The rest, as they say, is history.....

 

[alienentity]

Oh, if you want a link to the video, so you can witness the 9/11 truth -inspired rebirth of the Nazi dream, just click on the link..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WYdAJQV100

 

[FineWine]

Heiwa says that you cannot deop a small piece of something onto another larger piece of exactly the same construction and expect the smaller piece to crush the larger piece down to the ground using only gravity. This is exactly the oficial position on how the Towers collapsed.

Heiwa is so certain of his axiom hat he has offered one million dollars to anybody who can make an accurate model of this happening or provide a verifiable example in the history of the world of a comparable event taking place.

There are no takers Beachnut. Only talkers. Does that tell you nothing at all ?

Heiwa has offered a million dollars that he doesn't have. He refuses to tell us what happens when the collapsing floors, gathering weight and momentum, hit the ceiling of the next floor. Something stops them, but what could it be?

 

[FineWine]

Originally Posted by AndrewIlluminatus
Alternatively, hypothetically speaking, they may not be witting collaborators or conspirators in anything, but simply mind-control victims hypnotised to believe the "authorities" (media, politicians, teachers, parents, peers etc.) and to be good little patriots, nationalists and lovers of the great and infallible US of A. What any "US Regime Sponsored Conspiracy Theory Sceptics" like us are suggesting is literally inconceivable for them to accept. Google: "The Ultimate Revolution" lecture by Aldous Huxley at Berkley back in 1962 and you will see that this particular stage of human social development was fully predictable way back then. People who are suffering from having their minds hypnotically programmed for them by more "dominant alpha" types literally do appear to perceive what we might call "extrinsic reality" in a very odd manner. Watch any stage hypnotist at work or watch the literally ecstatic expressions and emotions shown on the faces of the German population in the brilliant propaganda movie "Triumph of the Will" by Leni Riefenstahl.



Yes of course, we may be wrong. It may just be a very simple case of 19 grumpy people who hated freedom (and life) hijacking 4 aircraft and getting very lucky indeed to cause so much damage with just 3. I rather doubt it, especially after looking into the life of Mr Atta and his behaviour over the car hire etc. which tends to indicate to me that he did not expect or intend to go dead on 9/11. What sceptics of the "19 grumpy men conspiracy theory" have on their side though is that they are often sceptics of everything, not just the official 9/11 conspiracy theory. Even my own theories, which is why I usually only voice my subjective suspicions and I do not talk of absolute "truth" or "facts". On the other hand anybody who has ever "served" in any military, been a member of a religious cult like Christianity or a "brotherhood", or believed (on faith) teachers, politicians, parents, the media etc. is a mind control victim. Anybody who has ever been a nationalist or patriot or has ever made a pledge of allegiance to anything is, by definition, a mind control victim, and is a brainwashed sheep, a member of the economically farmed, domesticated, tamed, mind-controlled animals, down on "Animal Farm". Those kinds of domesticated people lose a lot of credibility with feral-minded sceptics like us, because the tamed sheep have demonstrated a long history of being hoaxed all their lives, with their silly beliefs in invisible gods and patriotism etc., because they are not feral-minded sceptics.

You are not a skeptic. You believe nonsense.

 

[FineWine]

Topic is Why a one-way Crush down is not possible! Controlled demolition experts know this very well and thus uses other methods to demolish structures.

The collapsing floors hit the ceiling of the next floor. What stops thems them from crashing through? How many times will you ignore my question?

 

[bardamu]

...as close to 100% certain that nobody foresaw the collapse. It was months after the fall before even the better engineers commenting started to get the explanations "right". And that is true of both sides of the debate - there are still many and from both sides who do not understand "how" the global collapse worked.

When I described the situation as the global crush-down of the towers, I was understating the actual result of the attack. It wasn't just the two towers, but the entire WTC complex, consisting of seven large buildings, that was completely destroyed.

If the terrorists had PLANNED the total destruction of the WTC complex, using only two hijacked aircraft, is there any way they could have achieved it more efficiently?

What are the odds against two plane crashes resulting in such a perfect outcome for the terrorist by sheer chance? It sounds like something that could only happen to the accident-prone Inspector Clouseau!

Uh oh, no-planer alert.

No planer? What do you mean by allegedly?

Off topic.