Why a one-way Crush down is not possible

[dudalb]

This is not exactly an integrated collapse theory but it contains some components that could fill in a few blanks.


We were arguing here a week ortwo back about the fireproofing upgrade in WTC1- apparently only on the floors where the plane went in or ones that showed excessive amounts of fire. I call this 'extra fireproofing' rather than a 'fireproofing upgrade'.


You see I think some of the core columns had nano-thermite sprayed INSIDE them....drill a hole, charge the column and spray on however many layers you like. Fill it up even. The extra fireproofing may have been to stop the jet fuel igniting the thermite prematurely as nano-thermite ignites at only 430 degrees C. The extra-thick fireproofing may also have acted as 'lightproofing' against the characteristic bright glare of the ignited thermite.


This might have ocurred in an entire column from bottom to top- all 1300 feet draining the molten steel down into the basements. If this happened with many selected columns there might be hundreds or even thousands of tons of molten steel in the basements which could explain why it stayed molten for months and why there was so little steel on the ground outside after the
collapse.

The steel that poured out of WTC2 might point to a similar process going on there.. Also this would explain the hundreds of tons of thermite that would have been needed to provide such an even distibution of unreacted thermite chips in the WTC dust.

 

[alienentity]

there was so little steel on the ground outside after the
collapse.

The steel that poured out of WTC2 might point to a similar process going on there.. Also this would explain the hundreds of tons of thermite that would have been needed to provide such an even distibution of unreacted thermite chips in the WTC dust.

So you're thinking that hundreds of tons of thermite were brought into the impact floors to prepare for the planes? ok..... I wonder if they wore grey tanks on their backs full of liquid thermite?

And there was so little steel on the ground outside? gee, how much is 'little'?
FEMA says over 300,000 tons, don't they?

 

[Grizzly Bear]

I think we have reached a new level of delusion in the Truth Movement, folks.

Are you sure about that?... it seems to be getting weirder.... a record set with each new post....

 

[beachnut]

Gordon Ross articulated a fairly well thought out probable demolition sequence quite a while ago. He maintains that the outer core columns and the corners of the perimeter columns were taken out to effect the demolitions of the twin towers. I agree with him that this is highly probable and answers a number of questions.

You can google "How the towers were demolished" to find his website, where he discusses it in detail.

Total garbage. Why do you post such delusions based on junk science and pure fantasy. Gordon Ross says the WTC can't fall as they did on 911. It is funny to see Gordon wrong before he made up his failed ideas.

oops the columns just bowed, not explode. Darn, there goes your failed explosive junk along with Heiwa's no plane no gravity crap.

 

[Crungy]

This is not exactly an integrated collapse theory but it contains some components that could fill in a few blanks.


We were arguing here a week or two back about the fireproofing upgrade in WTC1- apparently only on the floors where the plane went in or ones that showed excessive amounts of fire. I call this 'extra fireproofing' rather than a 'fireproofing upgrade'.


You see I think some of the core columns had nano-thermite sprayed INSIDE them....drill a hole, charge the column and spray on however many layers you like. Fill it up even. The extra fireproofing may have been to stop the jet fuel igniting the thermite prematurely as nano-thermite ignites at only 430 degrees C. The extra-thick fireproofing may also have acted as 'lightproofing' against the characteristic bright glare of the ignited thermite.


This might have ocurred in an entire column from bottom to top- all 1300 feet draining the molten steel down into the basements. If this happened with many selected columns there might be hundreds or even thousands of tons of molten steel in the basements which could explain why it stayed molten for months and why there was so little steel on the ground outside after the
collapse.

The steel that poured out of WTC2 might point to a similar process going on there.. Also this would explain the hundreds of tons of thermite that would have been needed to provide such an even distibution of unreacted thermite chips in the WTC dust.

Was this from the same episode where Shaggy rescued Scooby just as the evil doers were about throw him down the elevator shaft?

 

[Seymour Butz]

You see I think some of the core columns had nano-thermite sprayed INSIDE them....drill a hole, charge the column and spray on however many layers you like. Fill it up even. The extra fireproofing may have been to stop the jet fuel igniting the thermite prematurely as nano-thermite ignites at only 430 degrees C. The extra-thick fireproofing may also have acted as 'lightproofing' against the characteristic bright glare of the ignited thermite.

Rube Goldberg ain't got nuttin' on you, son...

LMAO......

 

[bill smith]

So you're thinking that hundreds of tons of thermite were brought into the impact floors to prepare for the planes? ok..... I wonder if they wore grey tanks on their backs full of liquid thermite?

And there was so little steel on the ground outside? gee, how much is 'little'?
FEMA says over 300,000 tons, don't they?

Do you mean hat FEMA claim that here was 100,000 tons MORE steel than went into the construction of both Towers together ? lol.....only on 9/11....

 

[Furcifer]

Oh my, you're so smart. Thanks for the lesson. I suppose you can tell us all what the terminal velocity is for an 11 story building?

(crickets)

The physics classes at Truther University are all lecture and no homework.

 

[alienentity]

Do you mean hat FEMA claim that here was 100,000 tons MORE steel than went into the construction of both Towers together ? lol.....only on 9/11....

That was the total from all the WTC buildings. Have you read the FEMA report and seen all the WTC tower steel? It is documented if you care to look.

Or you could just make more fact-free statements if you find that convenient.

 

[Baylor]

Total garbage. Why do you post such delusions based on junk science and pure fantasy. Gordon Ross says the WTC can't fall as they did on 911. It is funny to see Gordon wrong before he made up his failed ideas.

oops the columns just bowed, not explode. Darn, there goes your failed explosive junk along with Heiwa's no plane no gravity crap.

Here's how NIST measured the inward bowing.

 

[WildCat]

Here's how NIST measured the inward

Voodoo!

/bill smith

 

[bill smith]

Night night boys

 

[Furcifer]

Was this from the same episode where Shaggy rescued Scooby just as the evil doers were about throw him down the elevator shaft?

No, this is the one where the kooky Sir Isaac Newton shows up and uses his brand of wacky ideas about gravity to help the gang solve the mystery. Other guests included Dmitri Mendeleev- "That's not possible Velma, the amount of thermite needed to melt all that Fe would be staggering " and Marie Curie- "There's no measurable amount of radioactivity in the pile Fred "

 

[Tony Szamboti]

This is a question for Tony Szamboti. Tony, you've spent a lot more time than I have studying the WTC collapses, I'm sure.
Can you tell us, as precisely as possible, how many seconds the collapses for each tower took?
Also, can you tell us WHERE in each tower the collapse was initiated?

Thanks in advance.

ps are you aware of the views of the original SE of the towers regarding collapse?

Alienentity, the collapses initiated at the 98th floor of the North Tower and the 82nd floor of the South Tower. In both cases it was just above the aircraft impact zones on floors with fires but little impact damage.

As for the speed of collapse, we know the acceleration was approximately 0.7g for the first 114 feet of the fall of the North Tower's upper block where it is visible. Assuming that acceleration was consistent for the remainder of the fall, then the North Tower would have collapsed in approximately 11 seconds.

I haven't been involved in or heard of any actual measurements of the fall of the South Tower. I know the NIST figure is something like 8 seconds. However, I believe they are talking about the time for the first collapsed material to hit the ground, and since that would have come from the 82nd floor then it would have been at least several more seconds for the full collapse to be complete.

As for the SE on the towers you are speaking of I assume you mean Leslie Robertson. If so, yes I am aware that he supports the NIST report and doesn't think anything untoward happened. However, in his debate with Steven Jones, which took place in Oct. 2006, he admitted that he had not done any calculations on the speeds of collapse to confirm his view that nothing untoward could have occurred. The link to a transcript of the debate, which also contains a link to a podcast of the debate which you can listen to, is here http://www.journalof911studies.com/volume/200704/Roberts_AnnotatedJones-RobertsonTranscript.pdf

 

[beachnut]

You see I think some of the core columns had nano-thermite sprayed INSIDE them....drill a hole, charge the column and spray on however many layers you like. Fill it up even. The extra fireproofing may have been to stop the jet fuel igniting the thermite prematurely as nano-thermite ignites at only 430 degrees C. The extra-thick fireproofing may also have acted as 'lightproofing' against the characteristic bright glare of the ignited thermite. ...

That is one dumb post; bravo for having real dumb delusions on 911.

 

[beachnut]

As for the SE on the towers you are speaking of I assume you mean Leslie Robertson. If so, yes I am aware that he supports the NIST report and doesn't think anything untoward happened. However, in his debate with Steven Jones, which took place in Oct. 2006, he admitted that he had not done any calculations on the speeds of collapse to confirm his view that nothing untoward could have occurred. The link to a transcript of the debate, which also contains a link to a podcast of the debate which you can listen to, is here http://www.journalof911studies.com/volume/200704/Roberts_AnnotatedJones-RobertsonTranscript.pdf

Robertson knows the collapse is how the tower would behave because he is the expert and you are a person with explosive delusions and 7 years of failure. Good for you.

Robertson design the towers and thinks your ideas are pure delusions. He thinks you guys are nut cases. Sorry, but you should avoid bringing up people who are the real experts and make your work look like a monkey throwing poop.

The annotated transcript of stupid; my goodness how do you put up with being in group that supports dirt dumb ideas on 911 only dolts can believe and apologize for terrorists. You guys produce the biggest pile of anti-intellectual tripe. How can you do it so effortlessly?

Why is your work so stupid? It must be related to why you are supporting the dirt dumb ideas of Heiwa?

 

[Tony Szamboti]

Robertson knows the collapse is how the tower would behave because he is the expert and you are a person with explosive delusions and 7 years of failure. Good for you.

Robertson design the towers and thinks your ideas are pure delusions. He thinks you guys are nut cases. Sorry, but you should avoid bringing up people who are the real experts and make your work look like a monkey throwing poop.

The annotated transcript of stupid; my goodness how do you put up with being in group that supports dirt dumb ideas on 911 only dolts can believe and apologize for terrorists. You guys produce the biggest pile of anti-intellectual tripe. How can you do it so effortlessly?

Why is your work so stupid? It must be related to why you are supporting the dirt dumb ideas of Heiwa?

Beachnut, I am starting to think you could have knocked down the towers with that mouth of yours. How many tons of TNT does it take to equal each one of your verbal blasts?

 

[Heiwa]

438 posts Why a one-way Crush down is not posssible

I note that there are 438 posts Why a one-way Crush down is not possible and none explains that a structural one-way crush down is possible.
Reason is that it is not possible.
Try to build a structure 1, 2 and 5 meters tall and then try to one-way crush it down! NASA, NIST, FEMA have tried. It is not possible. Same actually applies to 100, 200 and 500 meters tall structures. It has nothing to do with scale or size. Structures cannot simply be one-way crushed down by a little top part of itself! Thanks for attending this thread.

 

[beachnut]

Beachnut, I am starting to think you could have knocked down the towers with that mouth of yours. How many tons of TNT does it take to equal each one of your verbal blasts?

How many explosives does it take to make your failed ideas and delusions on 911 come true. You can't calculate what it takes to have your delusions. How much thermite? You know Jones just made that scam up. Why don't you have your own original ideas on 911? Yes, it is easier to use Jones failed thermite scam than to think up a new fraud.

You bring up stupid delusional work by failed people who have junk ideas on 911. You were missing until now and you think the new super thermite will save your failed lies and hearsay based on junk science. You post I guess in support of another pizza box engineer Heiwa and his delusions. Not one piece of evidence in 7 years and you pin your next big "loaded gun" (more like a loaded diaper) on a vanity paper published in a vanity journal. It is funny as you guys fool idiots on the internet with your pay to publish trash.

Your failed work has proved you to me you can't figure out 911 with all the evidence given to you after 7 years.

Heiwa will wonder why no one can prove him wrong as I publish the WTC failing due to steel being compromised from office fires set with 66,000 pounds of fuel with the heat energy of 315 TONS of TNT and all you can do is say there is no jolt in a low resolution, both in time and space, video. What great engineering expertise have you brought to support the failed ideas of Heiwa?

Will you and Heiwa be posting your delusions in 7 years? If this is the best you and Heiwa can do you need to dig deep and try harder. I hate to see people fail due to lack of knowledge and not using sound judgment.

The WTC towers fell due to impact damage and fires. I am not sure if this means Heiwa's OP is failed or his OP is just pure garbage; what do you think; is the WTC gravity collapse proof Heiwa's OP is wrong; failed? Or does Heiwa OP have some other delusional goal?

 

[AndrewIlluminatus]

As a matter of interest - if you were correct we would not have progressed as far as the iron age.

It was extremely difficult for our ancestors to move from the Bronze Age to the Iron Age precisely because of the problems of creating sufficiently pressurised air input "blast furnaces" to raise the furnace temperature high enough. If a few oxygen starved underground fires fed by some wood and animal fat (and possibly some residual jet fuel) could melt steel so easily, our ancestors would have probably reached that particular stage of technological development a lot sooner IMO. Even if some kind of "chimney effect" feeding in higher rates of oxygen, raised localised temperatures to say 1000C, that was still not hot enough to account for molten steel reports or for the interesting (officially accepted) sulphur contamination and the eutectic reports.

To Seymour who asks "So why are you asking others to explain the molten steel when YOU already know that it can't be substantiated?" I would reply that I was not there, so any empirical data gathering was obviously done by other mind-body organisms than mine. Of course it cannot be substantiated by me as "fact", nothing really can be. I suspect that a great deal of bogus data has been dumped into the historical record of 9/11, for the deliberate reason that that would be the best way to confuse investigators and keep them entertained, pointlessly chasing unimportant details, for decades. So permitting the political Hegelian Dialectic objectives of the terrorist 9/11 provocation (problem or Thesis) to develop unmolested. Acts of war and terrorism like 9/11 are not pointless and as Clausewitz dryly observed "War is nothing but a continuation of politics with the admixture of other means."

Ron Suskind, 2002 conversation with Bush aide: "The aide said that guys like me were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. "That's not the way the world really works anymore," he continued. "We're an EMPIRE now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality - judiciously, as you will - we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors. . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."