Whoopi Goldberg suspended from “The View”…

[plague311]

So, are we all supposed to ignore the hundreds of thousands of disabled people and the tens of thousands of gay people who were exterminated as part of the Holocaust?

Why? What are they saying?

 

[dudalb]

Whoopie needs to learn to actually think about what she says about topics like this rather then just blurt out what enters her mind.

 

[alfaniner]

The cynic in me wondered if it was a tie to the ratings. (February 1 starts ratings/sweeps month.) I think they'll get a lot of curiosity viewing after the firing, then in two weeks after her return.

I can't say that the firing of Jeff Zucker, CEO of CNN, was for a similar reason. In fact, my hypothesis is ridiculous, so never mind.

 

[Arcade22]

So, are we all supposed to ignore the hundreds of thousands of disabled people and the tens of thousands of gay people who were exterminated as part of the Holocaust?

The Holocaust was the genocidal campaign against European Jews perpetrated by Nazi Germany. It's not a general term for everyone who was killed by the Nazis. Even relative to the many other abuses committed by the Nazis The Holocaust is exceptional in terms of the scale involved and how thorough they were in seeking to physically kill off the Jewish people.

The Nazis didn't create murder factories where millions of homosexuals or political opponents were murdered en masse.

 

[theprestige]

I'm kind of impressed with how Goldberg seems to have decided that racism is such a heinous allegation that not even Hitler deserves to be saddled with it.

ETA: And one interesting bit of fallout from this is that I've now discovered that Goldberg isn't even her real name. She chose it on purpose because of how Jewish it sounded. Not only that, but she claims to be Jewish at heart. Doesn't observe any of the religious customs, or anything involving actual deeds, she just feels like she's Jewish. She should totally sue Rachel Dolezal for prior art.

 

[dann]

I thought my heritage was 100% Jewish, but DNA analysis shows my biological father was actually Scottish, and almost certainly not Jewish. Regardless, I doubt Nazis or NeoNazis would delve into such nuance.

Oh yes, they would! The Nazis were sticklers for nuance in this respect! You could be half Jewish, one quarter Jewish etc.
See graphic: Vor 85 Jahren: Nürnberger Gesetze erlassen
I've been told that I have Jewish ancestors, but I don't think that my father and his family experienced any difficulties during the German occupation of Denmark. They were Catholics, but they would have been where my 'Jewish genes' came from.

 

[Myriad]

What color were they?

Gray, ultimately.

 

[a_unique_person]

I don't entirely understand the outrage. It used to be a common epigram that "the Jews are a people, not a race", meaning that they are a group defined not just by biological relationships but also a shared culture. This was not a negative or demeaning statement. Apparently this is no longer an accepted view?

Secondly, Goldberg didn't say the Holocaust was good, just that it "wasn't about race". It's novel to me that the Holocaust must be considered to be "about race" in order to be considered bad. She certainly didn't say that the Nazi weren't racists, either.

Goldberg's got a history of saying foolish things, but I don't see where this particular one merits the furor.

The Holocaust was also about killing political enemies, the disabled and gays.

 

[rockinkt]

The Holocaust was also about killing political enemies, the disabled and gays.

"The Holocaust" is specifically referring to the systematic slaughter of Jews by the Nazis - not all the crimes committed by the Nazis.
The others you mentioned were slaughtered (albeit on a far, far, smaller scale) - but not under the same program and the the term "The Holocaust" does not apply.
It is a very important distinction that seems to have been missed by more than a few people.

 

[casebro]

I don't give the Nazis much authority to dictate terminology.
Inasmuch as there is such a thing as a "race" at all, Jews are not one, nor are Jehovas Witnesses, Catholics, or Gypsies.

Gypsies probably ARE a race, the Romani. 'Race' is a biologic and genetic term.

'Science' can certainly see the genetics of race, right down to which African or European tribe one descended from. So "race" is no longer "a social construct", it IS science.

Back to the OP, "Jewish" is a religion, a society, and a genetic ethnicity (a race). Quibble if you want.

 

[casebro]

The Holocaust was the genocidal campaign against European Jews perpetrated by Nazi Germany. It's not a general term for everyone who was killed by the Nazis. Even relative to the many other abuses committed by the Nazis The Holocaust is exceptional in terms of the scale involved and how thorough they were in seeking to physically kill off the Jewish people.

The Nazis didn't create murder factories where millions of homosexuals or political opponents were murdered en masse.

"The Holocaust" is specifically referring to the systematic slaughter of Jews by the Nazis - not all the crimes committed by the Nazis.
The others you mentioned were slaughtered (albeit on a far, far, smaller scale) - but not under the same program and the the term "The Holocaust" does not apply.
It is a very important distinction that seems to have been missed by more than a few people.

"Holocaust" was not a Nazi term. It was coined afterwards, and is generally used for each of the ethnicities beside Jews. Go ahead, google <romani holocaust>

I have some personal interest. My great aunt came to America in 1947 with Auschwitz numbers tattooed on her fore arm.

 

[arthwollipot]

 

[Venom]

'Race' is a biologic and genetic term.

'Science' can certainly see the genetics of race, right down to which African or European tribe one descended from. So "race" is no longer "a social construct", it IS science.

There is room for a lot of equivocation here. Race is a social construct in the sense that people tend to group themselves based on superficial physical, cultural features or ostensible shared ancestry. There is no rigorous process to draw those lines and they change over time and place. I think race science as it were is pretty interesting, but the way it's often applied is questionable.

 

[a_unique_person]

"The Holocaust" is specifically referring to the systematic slaughter of Jews by the Nazis - not all the crimes committed by the Nazis.
The others you mentioned were slaughtered (albeit on a far, far, smaller scale) - but not under the same program and the the term "The Holocaust" does not apply.
It is a very important distinction that seems to have been missed by more than a few people.

Do other deaths not matter?

Jews were the largest single group killed by the Nazis.

 

[Shadowdweller]

Another conservative voice silenced by the media /s

Goldberg isn't a conservative. She is, however, a boomer.

 

[Shadowdweller]

There is room for a lot of equivocation here. Race is a social construct in the sense that people tend to group themselves based on superficial physical, cultural features or ostensible shared ancestry. There is no rigorous process to draw those lines and they change over time and place. I think race science as it were is pretty interesting, but the way it's often applied is questionable.

Popular usage of the term "race" is almost entirely social. A geneticist can calculate probable ancestral populations based on clusters of tiny and essentially inconsequential variations of single base-pairs (SNPs) in a total human genome of about 3 billion. Popular usage of the term race tends to be based more on a few phenotypic traits - such as skin and hair color; and is wildly inconsistent. Example: 4th generation "African-American" still being considered "African-American".

EDIT: Wrong numbers removed

 

[ponderingturtle]

The Holocaust was also about killing political enemies, the disabled and gays.

But no one calls those murders racial and they were not viewed as such. The murder of jews, roma, slavs and so on was racial to those committing the acts.

 

[ponderingturtle]

There is room for a lot of equivocation here. Race is a social construct in the sense that people tend to group themselves based on superficial physical, cultural features or ostensible shared ancestry. There is no rigorous process to draw those lines and they change over time and place. I think race science as it were is pretty interesting, but the way it's often applied is questionable.

Also people view africans as one race despite there being more genetic diversity in africa than the rest of the whole combined. Race is a social construct not one based on biology and typically weighs certain physical markers like skin tone very heavily at least in the US.

 

[Lplus]

Also people view africans as one race despite there being more genetic diversity in africa than the rest of the whole combined. Race is a social construct not one based on biology and typically weighs certain physical markers like skin tone very heavily at least in the US.

You wish

- a social construct would be a culture.

 

[Darat]

You wish

- a social construct would be a culture.

Which part do you disagree with?