• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

Whoopi Goldberg suspended from “The View”…

Fast Eddie B

Philosopher
Joined
Sep 27, 2010
Messages
8,571
Location
Lenoir City, TN/Mineral Bluff, GA
…for two weeks for saying The Holocaust was “not about race”.

My response to a Twitter thread on the topic…

I was born and raised a Jew, and don’t get the outrage. I don’t see myself as being a separate “race”, and I think biologists in general agree that “race” is a nebulous concept. Seems like much ado about very, very little, with no slight intended by Whoopi.‬”

Thoughts?
 
Seems like a bad idea for the View to police the idiotic statements of the hosts of their show, which seems to be entirely comprised of out-of-touch weirdos having extremely stupid opinions.
 
I don't entirely understand the outrage. It used to be a common epigram that "the Jews are a people, not a race", meaning that they are a group defined not just by biological relationships but also a shared culture. This was not a negative or demeaning statement. Apparently this is no longer an accepted view?

Secondly, Goldberg didn't say the Holocaust was good, just that it "wasn't about race". It's novel to me that the Holocaust must be considered to be "about race" in order to be considered bad. She certainly didn't say that the Nazi weren't racists, either.

Goldberg's got a history of saying foolish things, but I don't see where this particular one merits the furor.
 
Pretty sure if you can be identified by a group characteristic to the point that you are sent to a concentration camp, it was about race, whether you call it race or not.

Race doesn't have to have biological underpinnings to be real. It was real to the Nazis. It was real to their victims.
 
…for two weeks for saying The Holocaust was “not about race”.

My response to a Twitter thread on the topic…

I was born and raised a Jew, and don’t get the outrage. I don’t see myself as being a separate “race”, and I think biologists in general agree that “race” is a nebulous concept. Seems like much ado about very, very little, with no slight intended by Whoopi.‬”

Thoughts?

Whoopi was just articulating the well known and apparently widely accepted view that if it isn't white people oppressing coloured people it isn't racism. Not sure why she had to apologise for what I assume is a sincerely held belief.
 
Last edited:
Last edited:
Whoopi said it was not about race, but man's inhumanity to man, and that both groups were white (had to Google it, out of the loop). So yeah, I get her point, that it was ultimately about inhumanity. But it was certainly not just that in real time.
 
I am in no way qualified to judge or comment, just wanted to link to some comments from David Baddiel, who has written a book recently around anti-semitism

Link to interview in Tweet, I can't find an original source. https://twitter.com/JonnyGeller/status/1488837963945582593?s=20&t=BJ4UIt3JcYAu4mKSKJKkmg

Widely quoted in this Independent article, if you don't fancy Twitter.

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-...vid-baddiel-gmb-whoopi-goldberg-b2005880.html

He seemed to be making good points. I'm going to pick up his book.

One of the points he made is often overlooked and that is his comment about "Schrodinger's whites". And that isn't something limited to Jewish people, we can see how it applied to Italians, the Irish and so on in past times.
 
Whoopi was just articulating the well known and apparently widely accepted view that if it isn't white people oppressing coloured people it isn't racism. Not sure why she had to apologise for what I assume is a sincerely held belief.

You have some very strange views.
 
You have some very strange views.

Whoopi Goldberg is facing a backlash after she said on a US talk show that the Holocaust "was not about race".

The actress and television personality said on ABC's The View that the Nazi genocide of the Jews involved "two groups of white people".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60209527

It's right there in print, Darat.

Or are you suggesting that the premise is neither well known nor widely accepted?
 
Last edited:
Whoopi said it was not about race, but man's inhumanity to man, and that both groups were white (had to Google it, out of the loop). So yeah, I get her point, that it was ultimately about inhumanity. But it was certainly not just that in real time.

I'm not getting the outrage still. Those three items are not incompatible, they are not mutually exclusive, and even if all three of them are accepted as true it doesn't mean Goldberg was saying the Holocaust wasn't a bad thing.
 
Whoopi said it was not about race, but man's inhumanity to man, and that both groups were white (had to Google it, out of the loop). So yeah, I get her point, that it was ultimately about inhumanity. But it was certainly not just that in real time.
Indeed, whatever the whiteness of the victims, it wasn't generalized inhumanity, it was targeted against a specific group (or groups, of course, if you include the similar genocide of the Romany), and even if you can make the obvious argument that Jews are not a race, the people doing the genocide considered them so and acted accordingly.

There are plenty of arguments against the very idea of race, and our own history abounds with instances in which a person with a considerable minority of African ancestry was considered a member of the black race and denied the basic rights of humanity. If your viewpoint is that someone is of a certain race, and if your action is to use that viewpoint to separate or extinguish them, then those doing it are racists and what they're doing is racial, even if the categories are utterly bogus.

I think Goldberg's apparent unwillingness to see that the targeting of genocide makes it an importantly identifiable subset of man's inhumanity to man was unfortunate and tone deaf. I gather she has apologized, but the apology doesn't make it clear whether she really gets it. I hope so.

edit to add, for TM, I think the operative problem is that Goldberg herself suggested that the terms are mutually exclusive. She specifically said the genocide was not racial, and that's a different thing from saying it was not only racial.
 
Last edited:
I was born and raised a Jew, and don’t get the outrage. I don’t see myself as being a separate “race”, and I think biologists in general agree that “race” is a nebulous concept. Seems like much ado about very, very little, with no slight intended by Whoopi.‬”

Many German Jews had the same mindset and thought that they were as German as anyone else. Apparently when the Nazis stripped them of their citizenship and declared them unwanted foreign aliens they were not being racist... even-though the Nazis themselves explicitly said they were doing it out of racism?

Makes perfect sense.
 
Last edited:
Many German Jews had the same mindset and thought that they were as German as anyone else. Apparently when the Nazis stripped them of their citizenship and declared them unwanted foreign aliens they were not being racist... even-though the Nazis themselves explicitly said they were doing out of racism?

Makes perfect sense.

I know. And I realize that even though I'm an atheist, and it turns out that I'm only half Jewish*, I would be considered a Jew if Holocaust II ever gained traction.


*I thought my heritage was 100% Jewish, but DNA analysis shows my biological father was actually Scottish, and almost certainly not Jewish. Regardless, I doubt Nazis or NeoNazis would delve into such nuance.


Edited to add: At 72, I wouldn't make much of a soldier. But regardless, I hope I'd have the courage to take a stand and not go meekly to my slaughter.

49292131068_e8fd4a978b.jpg
 
Last edited:
Another conservative voice silenced by the media /s

I really couldn't care ess if they canceled the whole show tomorrow, but I think it is interesting getting suburban wine box moms actually discussing concepts like "race".
 
I'm not getting the outrage still. Those three items are not incompatible, they are not mutually exclusive, and even if all three of them are accepted as true it doesn't mean Goldberg was saying the Holocaust wasn't a bad thing.

She said herself that they were exclusive, ie that it was "not about race". The Nazis has a specific focus, and it wasn't about religion or politics or whatever. They were pretty clear about the Aryan thing. It was about race, even if what a race is actually comprised of is a bit fuzzy. It wasn't to the furher, and it wasn't to his victims.

Eta: ninja'd by bruto
 
Last edited:
Another conservative voice silenced by the media /s

I really couldn't care ess if they canceled the whole show tomorrow, but I think it is interesting getting suburban wine box moms actually discussing concepts like "race".

If anything, this suspension is just another part of the View's theater. The whole thing is just not-too-bright rich women yelling at each-other and getting into petty flame wars. One of them going to the naughty box is just part of the soap-opera drama.
 
Many German Jews had the same mindset and thought that they were as German as anyone else. Apparently when the Nazis stripped them of their citizenship and declared them unwanted foreign aliens they were not being racist... even-though the Nazis themselves explicitly said they were doing it out of racism?

Makes perfect sense.
I don't give the Nazis much authority to dictate terminology.
Inasmuch as there is such a thing as a "race" at all, Jews are not one, nor are Jehovas Witnesses, Catholics, or Gypsies.
 
If anything, this suspension is just another part of the View's theater. The whole thing is just not-too-bright rich women yelling at each-other and getting into petty flame wars. One of them going to the naughty box is just part of the soap-opera drama.
That's almost certainly the truth. It's not like Whoopi will actually lose money. She's got a contract and probably doesn't lose money unless she chooses to walk. Little to no news about the show has come into my view since Meghan "My Daddy is John" McCain left the show but this was in my feed this morning. Mission accomplished.

While Whoopi was wrong, she was no wronger than she's ever been.
 
Did the Nazis think Aryans were the master race and the Jews an inferior race? Whoopi, like most Americans thinks of race and racism in terms of black and white. She even implied it in her apology. "I think of race as something I can see."

But yeah, celebrity halfwit says something stupid on the View is definitely dog bites man news.
 

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom