• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

Who'll be the Dem's VP nominee?

Distracted1 said:
You are conflating Pence' efficacy at the role with the role itself.
He is being used as a figurehead (and possibly fall guy) for the Trump response- yet he certainly could be more than that without shocking anyone- because we are accustomed to the VP using powers outside their technical purview.
Click to expand...

We are? We're accustomed to thinking Dick Cheney used powers outside the Vice President's purview, perhaps. Are we actually accustomed to seeing VPs using powers outside their purview?

What powers outside the VP's purview did Joe Biden customarily use, in the Obama administration?
 
quadraginta said:
There's no question that Darth Cheney had an impact on the Bush presidency, But I think he's something of an anomaly.

I haven't seen any evidence that Pence is anything more than a front man for the Trump administration's lack of policy regarding Covid 19. What initiatives has he personally orchestrated and controlled? He's little more than a mouthpiece that stands next to Trump during the news briefings and reads the prepared statements that have words too big for Trump to be able to read for himself.
Click to expand...

You forgot his roles to look adoringly at Trump like an infatuated schoolgirl and to approvingly nod in support of whatever Trump is saying.
 
theprestige said:
We are? We're accustomed to thinking Dick Cheney used powers outside the Vice President's purview, perhaps. Are we actually accustomed to seeing VPs using powers outside their purview?

What powers outside the VP's purview did Joe Biden customarily use, in the Obama administration?
Click to expand...
Well, there was that whole thing where his Son took an outrageous salary to get him to fire the Ukranian prosecutor that was prosecuting Burisma for its' corruption. :rolleyes:

Something the VP is constitutionally charged with handling?
 
Last edited:
Distracted1 said:
You are conflating Pence' efficacy at the role with the role itself.
Click to expand...


No. I'm not.

He is being used as a figurehead (and possibly fall guy) for the Trump response- yet he certainly could be more than that
Click to expand...


Yes. He "could be".

Whether or not he will be is an entirely different question

without shocking anyone
Click to expand...


Sorry. It would certainly shock me. (I can't speak for anyone else, of course.)

I'm not averse to being pleasantly surprised, but I don't expect to be surprised by anything like this.

After all, we have his record as governor to use as metric.

- because we are accustomed to the VP using powers outside their technical purview.
Click to expand...


How do you figure that?
 
quadraginta said:
No. I'm not.




Yes. He "could be".

Whether or not he will be is an entirely different question




Sorry. It would certainly shock me. (I can't speak for anyone else, of course.)

I'm not averse to being pleasantly surprised, but I don't expect to be surprised by anything like this.

After all, we have his record as governor to use as metric.




How do you figure that?
Click to expand...
Truly?
Conducting foreign policy, heading up pandemic response teams, plotting invasions of Middle Eastern Nations, etc..
None of those things are the Constitutional duty of the VP, yet no one raises their voice in shock when they fill those roles because we are accostomed to their use in such ways.

Even when resistance to their actions is voiced, it is voiced against the various actions carried out- not against those actions being undertaken by the VP.
 
Distracted1 said:
Truly?
Conducting foreign policy, heading up pandemic response teams, plotting invasions of Middle Eastern Nations, etc..
None of those things are the Constitutional duty of the VP, yet no one raises their voice in shock when they fill those roles because we are accostomed to their use in such ways.

Even when resistance to their actions is voiced, it is voiced against the various actions carried out- not against those actions being undertaken by the VP.
Click to expand...
On the other hand, none of those things require the VP. The president already has a whole cabinet-level agency for diplomatic work. The Secretary of State can conduct foreign diplomacy. The Secretary of the Interior and the Surgeon General can head up pandemic response. The Secretary of Defense, the National Security Advisor, and the Joint Chiefs of Staff can plot invasions.

And all of these people are ostensibly chosen for the their subject matter expertise. The VP would have to be some kind of polymath, to pinch hit across that whole range of specialties.

Why did Obama replace Clinton with Kerry, instead of just letting Biden fill in on the diplomatic front?
 
theprestige said:
On the other hand, none of those things require the VP. The president already has a whole cabinet-level agency for diplomatic work. The Secretary of State can conduct foreign diplomacy. The Secretary of the Interior and the Surgeon General can head up pandemic response. The Secretary of Defense, the National Security Advisor, and the Joint Chiefs of Staff can plot invasions.

And all of these people are ostensibly chosen for the their subject matter expertise. The VP would have to be some kind of polymath, to pinch hit across that whole range of specialties.

Why did Obama replace Clinton with Kerry, instead of just letting Biden fill in on the diplomatic front?
Click to expand...
Certainly, there are positions in the Government often more capable of serving those roles and designed ,in most cases ,specifically to do them.

I am not arguing that there are not. Nor am I arguing that it is uncommon or unacceptable for a VP to be a nearly complete non-entity in an administration without raising eyebrows.

My point is that it is not unusual in more recent times (last 30 years or so) for a VP to take a much more active role. Not that such a role has somehow become a requirement of the office.
 
Distracted1 said:
Certainly, there are positions in the Government often more capable of serving those roles and designed ,in most cases ,specifically to do them.

I am not arguing that there are not. Nor am I arguing that it is uncommon or unacceptable for a VP to be a nearly complete non-entity in an administration without raising eyebrows.

My point is that it is not unusual in more recent times (last 30 years or so) for a VP to take a much more active role. Not that such a role has somehow become a requirement of the office.
Click to expand...

The thing is, I'm not sure I've seen recent VPs being "much more active". They may have been appointed to roles that sound like they're really active, but how much action have we really seen from them?

Even Dick Cheney is mostly theorized to have been super active behind the scenes, rather than being seen in action.
 
Dr. Keith said:
Jesus wept, I just had a vision of Biden saying "hold my beer!"
Click to expand...

"Sir, I'm already holding your beer. You asked me to hold it because you weren't sure of your grip."

"Oh... Right. I-I guess I forgot. I'm sorry."

"No problem, sir. Happy to help. Let's take another look at potential VP picks, shall we?"

"I want someone with sweet-smelling hair."
 
theprestige said:
"Sir, I'm already holding your beer. You asked me to hold it because you weren't sure of your grip."

"Oh... Right. I-I guess I forgot. I'm sorry."

"No problem, sir. Happy to help. Let's take another look at potential VP picks, shall we?"

"I want someone with sweet-smelling hair."
Click to expand...

That is the problem with Biden picking a woman. Lord help him if he tries to stick his nose in a black woman's hair.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom