Who Won the Debate?

Who won the debate?

  • Trump

    Votes: 7 5.1%

  • Clinton

    Votes: 129 94.2%

  • Draw

    Votes: 1 0.7%
  • Total voters
    137
  • Poll closed .
Aepervius said:
You win a debate by being the more convincing. Ever had one in school ? It does not mean you are factually correct. In fact i was in quite a few debate where I was trounced despite having evidence and science behind me, because I sucked at rhetoric and the other person debating had a dazzling charisma.

But even by that standard Trump lost.
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You do realize that those who blindly support Trump, are already convinced no matter what he says, right? He got their support all the way through by lying openly and speaking nonsense. Shouldn't stop him now.
 
Good morning.
Before the debate, the audience was given clear instructions not to react to what the nominees say. No applause, no booing that kind of stuff. The moderator had to remind the audience a couple of times during the debate about that. I don't think the times the audience chose to ignore those instructions had too much of an impact but what exactly could be done if the audience ignored those instructions completely? Could Holt have told them after the first instance that they would pause the debate and clear the room if it happens again?
 
Tony Stark said:
You are just plain wrong. Who cares if a relative small number of Trump fanatics voted a bunch of times on some online polls. They can only vote once in the election.
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For a start we do not know whether this was a handful of people voting a lot or a much larger number of people only voting once. Either way it's an indication as to the depth of feeling.

Tony Stark said:
There were Bernie Bros that did the same thing during the primaries and he lost pretty badly.
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He was also always a long way behind in the polls nationally. ATM Trump and Hillary are within the margin of error nationally with Trump having had the momentum since the peak of Hillary's convention bounce.

Tony Stark said:
I didn't bother to vote in any of those online polls because I know they are meaningless. I am still going to vote for Hillary as soon as I get my ballot in the mail.
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That's great news. There will however be millions who are less organised and less motivated than you. If they cannot be bothered to click a mouse what chance they'll be motivated to get themselves along to a polling station in crappy weather on a Tuesday ?

If enough people are sufficiently apathetic on one side but the other side is highly motivated then that could be enough to swing a close election.
 
The Don said:
For a start we do not know whether this was a handful of people voting a lot or a much larger number of people only voting once. Either way it's an indication as to the depth of feeling.
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It is an indication of absolutely nothing and nobody who has any idea what they are talking about takes self selecting online polls where anyone can vote as many times as they want seriously.

He was also always a long way behind in the polls nationally. ATM Trump and Hillary are within the margin of error nationally with Trump having had the momentum since the peak of Hillary's convention bounce.
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Either self selecting online polls where people can vote many times mean something or they don't. Bernie Sanders proved without any doubt whatsoever they don't. They don't mean jack ****. Having the most fanatical followers doesn't mean you win.



That's great news. There will however be millions who are less organised and less motivated than you. If they cannot be bothered to click a mouse what chance they'll be motivated to get themselves along to a polling station in crappy weather on a Tuesday ?
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The vast, vast majority of the probably 120m+ people that that will vote didn't vote in the absolutely worthless online polls.

If enough people are sufficiently apathetic on one side but the other side is highly motivated then that could be enough to swing a close election.
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Apathy could swing the vote to Trump but self selecting online polls where you can vote many times means NOTHING.
 
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If they didn't want the audience interrupting, they could have held it in a room with no audience.
 
The Don said:
A clip of Newt Gingrich was just played on the BBC where he (unsurprisingly) claimed that Trump won the debate with a clear margin on most points.
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Gingrich? Was that clip recorded before or after the debate?
 
Ron_Tomkins said:
You do realize that those who blindly support Trump, are already convinced no matter what he says, right? He got their support all the way through by lying openly and speaking nonsense. Shouldn't stop him now.
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But they won't be the people that will decide the election. It's the people on the margins. The undecideds will swing the election.
 
My family decided Hillary won the debate if, for nothing else, appearing to have deployed her astronaut pants while trump yammered about stamina. There was a moment when the look on her face suggested it to all of us.
 
marplots said:
One thing was abundantly apparent during this debate: Hillary is an old white lady. She lost the visuals.

Do we really want a country run by grandma? Grandma is nice and all, and she certainly cares about us, but didn't we just take her car keys away for her own protection? Yes, yes we did.
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If you really want to go there, the Trump is our drunk uncle who ruins Thanksgiving by shouting about how that guy in the White House has ruined everything and is responsible for Detroit not looking like it was in the 1950s. Yeah, we took his keys away, too.
 
Tony Stark said:
It is an indication of absolutely nothing and nobody who has any idea what they are talking about takes self selecting online polls where anyone can vote as many times as they want seriously.

Either self selecting online polls where people can vote many times mean something or they don't. Bernie Sanders proved without any doubt whatsoever they don't. They don't mean jack ****. Having the most fanatical followers doesn't mean you win.

The vast, vast majority of the probably 120m+ people that that will vote didn't vote in the absolutely worthless online polls.

Apathy could swing the vote to Trump but self selecting online polls where you can vote many times means NOTHING.
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I see a worrying amount of overconfidence in posts like this. Online polls while in no way a reliable and accurate measure of feeling in the public at large do take the temperature of public opinion. If online polls from a variety of sites are at odds with the "official" opinion polls over a protracted period of time, I think that this is a warning that the "official" opinion polls are not capturing the true position.

This is exactly what happened in a tight Brexit vote. The "official" opinion polls gave it close but Remain, the online polls gave it as Leave by a mile and the actual result was more Leave than expected by a considerable margin. I see the same situation playing out here - not least because if Trump can motivate his portion of the the 40% who don't turn out to vote to vote for him then he's got it won.
 
Ron_Tomkins said:
You do realize that those who blindly support Trump, are already convinced no matter what he says, right? He got their support all the way through by lying openly and speaking nonsense. Shouldn't stop him now.
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Yes I do realize. And guess who decide the election ? As other said, usually the indep, those convinced by last debates or the last scandals or whatnot (or even do it with a coins). Not the hardliner which followed and were decided to vote for one candidate from the starts.

Those are the one the debates are for. Not the trumpist or hillarist which supported both from the start. Quasi none of them will be convinced to switch.
 
I watched the followup discussion on the PBS Newshour with David Brooks and Mark Shields. David Brooks gave Hillary the edge in the end but he thought Trump did what he needed to do. I don't think think there were major gaffs such as the Benson Quayle debate. Trump was flailing at the end with his word salads. In the end, Trump's base will say he won and Hillary's base will say she won. Personally, I give Hillary the edge because Trump lost focus after about 20 minutes in. As others pointed out, he did not take the attack to Hillary on the email servers and went off on a tangent. Neither failed abysmally. The other guest on the News Hour ( I don't remember her name) made the best point. She said that since both candidates have strong negatives, they should not have the focus on themselves. Most of the focus was on Trumps issues and this is why I would give Hillary the edge.

However, I don't think we will really know until polling data is more complete. I'm guessing in a week. In the end, the winner is decided by where public perception goes.
 
The Don said:
I see a worrying amount of overconfidence in posts like this. Online polls while in no way a reliable and accurate measure of feeling in the public at large do take the temperature of public opinion. If online polls from a variety of sites are at odds with the "official" opinion polls over a protracted period of time, I think that this is a warning that the "official" opinion polls are not capturing the true position.

This is exactly what happened in a tight Brexit vote. The "official" opinion polls gave it close but Remain, the online polls gave it as Leave by a mile and the actual result was more Leave than expected by a considerable margin. I see the same situation playing out here - not least because if Trump can motivate his portion of the the 40% who don't turn out to vote to vote for him then he's got it won.
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The only thing thing I am certain of is that self selecting online polls where anyone can vote many times are absolutely worthless. I wouldn't pay attention to them if they said Hillary won either.
 
Jrrarglblarg said:
My family decided Hillary won the debate if, for nothing else, appearing to have deployed her astronaut pants while trump yammered about stamina. There was a moment when the look on her face suggested it to all of us.
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I suspect the "stamina" line was all the preparation Trump did, and it just looked terrible on the night. Clinton, of course, was prepared for it.

Trump may get bounced into doing more preparation for the next one and screw up even worse. As himself he's bad. As himself trying to be somebody else he's a joke.
 
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