Who started both World Wars?

[Craig4]

Your real problem is that you, on a very fundamental level fail to grasp how the world works. It's a problem with a lot of CT'ers. You see disparate facts and make connections that aren't actually there. You've reduced the world to a Tom Clancy novel failing to understand that it is both more and less complex than you grasp.

Your statement about the NYSE (which still requires US government approval to proceed) shows how little you understand about economics or generally how stock exchanges work.

 

[9/11-investigator]

Your real problem is that you, on a very fundamental level fail to grasp how the world works. It's a problem with a lot of CT'ers. You see disparate facts and make connections that aren't actually there. You've reduced the world to a Tom Clancy novel failing to understand that it is both more and less complex than you grasp.

Your statement about the NYSE (which still requires US government approval to proceed) shows how little you understand about economics or generally how stock exchanges work.

Do you have anything of substance to say about WW1 or WW2 and who started them, the topic of this thread?

 

[Craig4]

Do you have anything of substance to say about WW1 or WW2 and who started them, the topic of this thread?

Yes, that fact that you don't like it is your problem.

 

[9/11-investigator]

So why didn't Hitler include those demands in the 1934 treaty.

When did Poland begin to get visions of grandure. The right of Britian and France to support Poland in times of war was upheld in the 1934 Treaty that Hitler signed

So why should he, or more importantly 'you' react so shocked when those two countries reacted exactly how they said the would if Hitler violated the treaty he signed

I take it you are refering to this treaty:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German–Polish_Non-Aggression_Pact

My guess would be that in 1934 Germany was too weak yet militarily to demand anything.

Are you saying that the British war garantee of 1939 was basically an error, because a garantee already existed?

BTW: the reason why Hitler say himself forced to invade was not Danzig but the persecution of the Germans in Poland by the Poles. People often (like to) forget that Poland was mobilized as well and dreamed of going to Berlin (not for tourism) because they thought that Britain, France and even the US would come to their aid, an idiotic thought. Poland, ostensibly the reason for the war to break out, after the war was merily given away to the USSR by the alllies after the war. Nobody gave a **** about these Poles. Poland was the excuse for the rising power USA to enter a war with Germany via their proxy Britain/Churchill/Focus Group. It all worked out according to plan and in 1945 the US could divide the European loot between them and the USSR. Mission accomplished. Then they invented the holostory in Nuremberg so the alllies could pimp themselves and got accepted as 'liberators'.

BTW2: the story by this Russian general was not written on personal title but posted on the site of the Russian ministery of defense. For me this is a clear sign that Russia probably is willing to accept historic revisionism (causes of war, holo tale) in return for an alliance. Putin has already offered as much. Would be a nice scene... CNN bringing breaking news... camera's switch to the Kremlin, impressive grandeur... big table, Putin seated in the middle, next to him David Irving from Britain, Patrick Buchanan from the USA, Gerhard Schroeder from Germany, Jean-Marie le Pen from France, Ahmadinejad from Iran, the prime minister of China and someone from the Russian Academy of Science... Putin reads a long text from a paper he holds... it is not immediately clear what he is getting at... about history and the necessity of sometimes having to review old insights... Then finally the earth shattering devastating surprise... Putin: during WW2 there never were gas chambers in German concentration camps. It was a story invented by the allies. Putin refers to a website the Russian authorities have created and put online during Putins speech. It contains a transscript of a conversation between Stephen Wise and Ilya Ehrenburg coordinating American and Russian approach considering the impending Nuremberg trials and a 6 million figure. Putin confirms that the statements made by Hoess and all the other Germans held in captivity were indeed extorted by torture, precisely as the American judge van Roden had stated before. Putin, with trembling voice, confirms that Russian, American and British troops raped more German women than there were women raped in the entire history of mankind.

Next the camera's show the Versailles palace where chancellor Merkel and president Villepin are standing behind lecterns. They both look nervous... it is Villepin who announces that France and Germany immediately leave the NATO alliance and enter an economic and military alliance with Russia. Anglo troops are summoned to leave Europe as soon as possible. SS-22 rockets are already deployed in Europe and all French, Russian and Chinese nuclear submarines are on highest alert. Chinese paratroopers are said to be dropped over Taiwan... Reports from Vienna where several British tourists are said to be thrown out of hotel windows...

 

[MG1962]

I take it you are refering to this treaty:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German–Polish_Non-Aggression_Pact

My guess would be that in 1934 Germany was too weak yet militarily to demand anything.

Are you saying that the British war garantee of 1939 was basically an error, because a garantee already existed? .

He knew when he signed in 1934 that if he attacked Poland he risked war - He attacked Poland, he got war. Kinda blows a hole in your theory of a manufactured war

He had 5 years to think about the ramification of his actions - and still went ahead with the attack

 

[Craig4]

Next the camera's show the Versailles palace where chancellor Merkel and president Villepin are standing behind lecterns. They both look nervous... it is Villepin who announces that France and Germany immediately leave the NATO alliance and enter an economic and military alliance with Russia. Anglo troops are summoned to leave Europe as soon as possible. SS-22 rockets are already deployed in Europe and all French, Russian and Chinese nuclear submarines are on highest alert.

Wow you're high. You can't possibly believe that Russia or China would risk the end of Civilization for this idiotic dream. Put the cheap paperbacks down and stop watching movies. You're living your life in a dream, a really weird one. No one (who matters) wants what you want. Russia may want to emerge as a world power again and China is becoming a major economic power (though they should really put the brakes on expansion to avoid a bubble). Their going to risk all that for what? Achieving your freakish fantasy world? Countries don't just throw around the "N" word (nuclear) casually like this. You really need to educate your self a little better about both history and the world in general. Your lack of sophistication makes your attempts to lie to people about history come of as inept.

 

[9/11-investigator]

He knew when he signed in 1934 that if he attacked Poland he risked war - He attacked Poland, he got war. Kinda blows a hole in your theory of a manufactured war

He had 5 years to think about the ramification of his actions - and still went ahead with the attack

Would you consider 1939-Danzig a German town?

 

[TSR]

Would you consider 1939-Danzig a German town?

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No, it was the Free State of Danzig, under administration of the League of Nations, with its external affairs mostly under Polish control, of which Hitler in May 1939 said "It is not Danzig that is at stake. For us it is a matter of expanding our Lebensraum in the east." But then he invaded.

Another own goal.
.

 

[MG1962]

Would you consider 1939-Danzig a German town?

Meaningless sidebar - he knew in 34 he risked war - he accepted that risk in 1939. The only person who started that war was Hitler

Three times the world stepped back from his war mongering

The forth time they squashed him like a bug

 

[9/11-investigator]

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No, it was the Free State of Danzig, under administration of the League of Nations, with its external affairs mostly under Polish control,

I know who administered the town. But Danzig considered itself a German town and wanted to go back to the Reich after the Anglos had ripped the city from Germany after WW1. I thought you guys were all about self-determination, right? As you solemny professed in Versailles. Another Anglo lie of course.

of which Hitler in May 1939 said "It is not Danzig that is at stake. For us it is a matter of expanding our Lebensraum in the east." But then he invaded. .

That is an historic novum you are presenting here. I am very curious as to what source you can offer to back up this claim that Hitler said anything like that. Probably another TSR lie.

 

[MG1962]

That is an historic novum you are presenting here. I am very curious as to what source you can offer to back up this claim that Hitler said anything like that. Probably another TSR lie.

So because you dont know something - makes it a lie - just to help you he said it on the 17th May

And what happens next? You will say the source is corrupt (Anglo, Jewish or some such) and you refuse to accept the answer. Then we will disapear for a while then you will come back with a whole new topic when you think everyone forgot your last faux pas

 

[9/11-investigator]

Meaningless sidebar - he knew in 34 he risked war - he accepted that risk in 1939. The only person who started that war was Hitler

Three times the world stepped back from his war mongering

The forth time they squashed him like a bug

4 times, that must be:

1. Rheinland
2. Anschluss
3. Sudetenland/Czechoslovakia
4. Danzig

1. Was Germany proper
2. The Austrians wanted nothing but an Anschluss, but the Anglos right after WW1 did not like that because that would make Germany too powerful. In the end the Germans decided to ignore the Anglos (always a good idea) and Austria and Germany got united, according to the wishes of a vast majority of the Austrians.
3. Sudetenland. Totally justified, the Sudeten-Germans wanted to return to the Reich. The invasion of Prague was indeed dubious, but not a shot was fired at the occasion. Prague btw had never been independent and the country was an Anglo created miscreant that fell apart at the first opportunity at the end of the Cold War.
4. 97% of the town was German and wanted to return to the Reich. When the Poles started to kill Germans (because of the fake moral backing they got from Britain, France and Roosevelt) Hitler thought enough was enough and decided to give the Poles a well deserved blow, exactly as the Russian general described in his recent article published on a official state website.

Britain, as we remember, invaded about every country they could lay their hands on (25% of the planet) that were certainly not British, as opposed to Rheinland, Austria, Sudentenland and Danzig, that were German.

Anglo is another word for hypocrisy.

 

[9/11-investigator]

So because you dont know something - makes it a lie - just to help you he said it on the 17th May

And what happens next? You will say the source is corrupt (Anglo, Jewish or some such) and you refuse to accept the answer. Then we will disapear for a while then you will come back with a whole new topic when you think everyone forgot your last faux pas

If you would have known the source you would have told me, to score a point. But from the fact that you remain mysterious about the source (it probably is your ***) we can be almost certain it is another lie. He knows it is a dubious source, he simply tries it. OMG.

 

[dudalb]

4 times, that must be:

1. Rheinland
2. Anschluss
3. Sudetenland/Czechoslovakia
4. Danzig

1. Was Germany proper
2. The Austrians wanted nothing but an Anschluss, but the Anglos did not like that because that would make Germany too powerful. In the end the Germans decided to ignore the Anglos (always a good idea) and Austria and Germany got united, according to the wishes of a vast majority.
3. Sudetenland. Totally justified, the Sudeten-Germans wanted to return to the Reich. The invasion of Prague was indeed dubious, but not a shot was fired at the occasion. Prague btw had never been independent and the country was an Anglo created miscreant that fell apart at the first opportunity at the end of the Cold War.
4. 97% of the town was German and wanted to return to the Reich. When the Poles started to kill Germans (because of the fake moral backing they got from Britain, France and Roosevelt) Hitler thought enough was enough and decided to give the Poles a well deserved blow, exactly as the Russian general described in his recent article published on a official state website.

Britain, as we remember, invaded about every country they could lay their hands on (25% of the planet) that were certainly not British, as opposed to Rheinland, Austria, Sudentenland and Danzig, that were German.

Anglo is another word for hypocrisy.

SO the Germans have a right to "Self Determination" but the Czechs did not?

You know, you should really stop talking about "European Supremancy" and just be honest and talk about "Germanic Supremacy" since it is pretty apparent you don't have much use for Slavic and Medittrean Europeans..except for Putin, for some weird reason.

 

[MG1962]

.

Britain, as we remember, invaded about every country they could lay their hands on (25% of the planet) that were certainly not British, as opposed to Rheinland, Austria, Sudentenland and Danzig, that were German.

Anglo is another word for hypocrisy.

Another attempt at a sidebar - Sure Britain invaded lots of place. Also lost their share of wars. Unlike you, they dont find a need to blame eveyone and everything other than their own choice to conduct a war.

And as the old saying goes. "Winners are griners, losers can go please themselves" Ya gonna bitch about treaties, you should not have lost the war in the first place

 

[MG1962]

If you would have known the source you would have told me, to score a point. But from the fact that you remain mysterious about the source (it probably is your ***) we can be almost certain it is another lie.

Feel free to believe that - but you were the one who told me you were going to teach me real history. So far all you have demonstrated is you know none

 

[TSR]

I know who administered the town. But Danzig considered itself a German town and wanted to go back to the Reich after the Anglos had ripped the city from Germany after WW1. I thought you guys were all about self-determination, right? As you solemny professed in Versailles. Another Anglo lie of course.

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No, it considered itself a Free State, administered by the Poles, which had a lot of German residents -- until the Nazis made a specific effort to change that opinion.



Hmmmmn. Wonder why they did that?
.

That is an historic novum you are presenting here. I am very curious as to what source you can offer to back up this claim that Hitler said anything like that. Probably another TSR lie.

.
Well, for example, one could read Peter Hoffman's "The History of the German Resistance, 1933-1945."

Or Antony Best's "International History of the Twentieth Century and Beyond"

Or Martin Kitchen's "A Military History of Germany, From the Eighteenth Century to the Present Day"

Or Joachim C. Fest's "Hilter"

Or Richard Hargreaves' "Blitzkrieg w Polsce wrzesien 1939"

But that would be too much like doing actual research for you, wouldn't it?

I'd wait for an apology, or even a demonstration that I have *ever* lied, if I didn't know you were incapable of admitting you were flat out wrong.
.

 

[dafydd]

Another attempt at a sidebar - Sure Britain invaded lots of place. Also lost their share of wars. Unlike you, they dont find a need to blame eveyone and everything other than their own choice to conduct a war.

And as the old saying goes. "Winners are griners, losers can go please themselves" Ya gonna bitch about treaties, you should not have lost the war in the first place

Hitler gambled and he lost. He did managed to lay waste to large areas of Europe and kill a lot of Jews,that appeals to Hitler huggers like Nein 11.

 

[TSR]

4 times, that must be:

1. Rheinland
2. Anschluss
3. Sudetenland/Czechoslovakia
4. Danzig

1. Was Germany proper

.
Nup. Was three separate demilitarized zones after WWI, which by treaty the Allies *could* have reoccupied at will.

They didn't.
.

2. The Austrians wanted nothing but an Anschluss,

.
Really? When was that referendum held?



Oh, that's right, the Nazi Party of Austria actively *prevented* that referendum...
.

3. Sudetenland. Totally justified, the Sudeten-Germans wanted to return to the Reich.

.
Okay -- and what about the *majority* of Sudentlanders?
.

Britain, as we remember, invaded about every country they could lay their hands on (25% of the planet) that were certainly not British, as opposed to Rheinland, Austria, Sudentenland and Danzig, that were German.

Anglo is another word for hypocrisy.

.
Ah, so because someone else supposedly did something bad, that justifies me doing something bad?

And BTW -- actual history shows, as I have demonstrated, that these were *not* German.
.

 

[VonKleist]

The Hitler quote.

It is not Danzig that is at stake. For us it is a matter of expanding our living space in the East and making food supplies secure and also solving the problem of the Baltic States. Food supplies can only be obtained from thinly populated areas. Over and above fertility, the thorough German cultivation will tremendously increase the produce.

Recorded by Lt. Col. (General Staff) Schmundt, at a meeting on May 23rd, 1939 at the New Reich Chancellery between Hitler and Göring, Raeder, von Brauchitsch, Keitel, Milch, Halder, (General) Bodenschatz, (Rear Admiral)Schniewind, Colonel (attached to the General Staff) Jeschonnek, Colonel (General Staff) Warlimont, Captain Engel (Army), Lieutenant Commander Albrecht, Captain von Below(Army).

Published in: Documents on German Foreign Policy, D, VI, no. 433, pp. 574 ff. IMT, 079-L.

The protocol is also printed in: Jacobsen, Der zweite Weltkrieg in Chronik und Dokumenten, pp. 92 ff