Who started both World Wars?

[9/11-investigator]

That's an unfair comparison. Christopher Lee can do anything.

That is the North-American for you, totally confusing reality and movies. Starship Enterprise will autorepair itself after being hit by a meteor. In reality they are unable to put a man in orbit. Boldly going nowhere. America run out of Nazi's to do spectacular projects for them. Now aging childless white Americans have to spend their tax dollars on health care for invaders who have plenty of children. More than 50% of the new borns in the US are none-whites. Whites will become a minority in 2020 and will constitute 10% of the population in 2100, assuming the US will still exist, which it won't.

 

[Baylor]

Again the example I used earlier. Weaker woman in parking garage is approached in straight by big silent man of undefined color. He probably wants to rob her. As soon as he has her wrists in his grip she has lost. She has one means of defense, that is strike first by grabbing the pepper spray from her purse and use it (preventive war) before he can grab her wrists. Fine 'choice' she has!

Perfect analogy of the German-Russia/France/Britain situation in 1914, the German-Britain/France situation in 1940, the German-Russian situation in 1941.

I have to repeat, this is one of the stupidest things I've ever read in my entire life. I'm not just saying that because our friend here is a holocaust denier. This is really stupid.

 

[Corsair 115]

Heck, even Somalians will beat Americans any time.

And yet your vaunted Nazi Germany forces were thoroughly trounced by those very same Americans (and Anglos, its Commonwealth, and the Russians). Indeed, Germany was turned into a rubble pile by the time it was over.

Seems it was the Allies (east and west) who knew how to fight a war properly, unlike Germany, which had at its top a leadership as dense as lead.

 

[9/11-investigator]

The offensive-superiority axiom was temporarily rendered invalid by Germany's Blitzkrieg tactics. This had already been proven in the battle of France, in which the Allies had a substantial numeric superiority.

Exactly.

If Germany was able to take France as easily as it did, then there was no reason to believe that the Soviets, who had struggled with Finland, would be any more of a challenge.

Two different cases. Hitler had learned from WW1 and the failure of the Schlieffen plan. Germany was then surprised by the secret agreement Britain had with France that the cabal around Grey and Churchill had negotiated with the French. It was the British expedition army that had led to the stalemate. This time Germany acted as soon as the British started to act, this time in Norway. The USSR was a different case all together. They vastly outnumbered the Germans, with superior weapons. The Germans only had 'pepperspray' so to pseak and decided to use it first, while the Soviets were amassing troops on the frontier with Germany and Romania (oil fields) to prepare for the attack.

Also...the confusion and hesitation on the part of the Soviets is well-documented. Stalin's catastrophic insistence that the attack wasn't really happening and that the forward troops therefore should not fight back...where did this come from? If Stalin was prepared to attack, why would he refuse to defend? What possible benefit would be derived from fabricating this story, which made the Russian leader look like a complete idiot?

He was completely surprised because he knew that the Germans never planned for an invasion of the USSR. The Nazis were nationalists who wanted Germany for the Germans. The Germans had basically achieved their territorial aims after the division of Poland. But Stalin wanted world revolution. His plan was to extend Bolshevism until the Atlantic. Thanks to the heroic actions of the Germans he failed.

 

[dtugg]

The nazi piece of filth keeps getting crazier and crazier.

 

[dafydd]

The nazi piece of filth keeps getting crazier and crazier.

In the true Nazi tradition.

 

[9/11-investigator]

And yet your vaunted Nazi Germany forces were thoroughly trounced by those very same Americans (and Anglos, its Commonwealth, and the Russians). Indeed, Germany was turned into a rubble pile by the time it was over.

Seems it was the Allies (east and west) who knew how to fight a war properly, unlike Germany, which had at its top a leadership as dense as lead.

It is not difficult to overhear the pleasure Corsair has in the destruction of his mother civilization.

The Germans were outnumbered 7 to 1 by the Allies and never were looking for this war. The Americans and Russians were looking for this war at the cost of Europe. And the Anglos played an insignificant part in WW2, they just limited themselves to killing civilians, nothing else, and joined the party only when it was almost over (mid 1944), when the Russians had already won. As soon as the Anglo encounters real resistance, he runs; uh sorry, 'gloriously advances towards the Channel'. Seriously, the war between the Soviets and the Nazis was the core of WW2.

But the times are changing, Corsair. Now it is you who is going to be destroyed. We have a united Europe (500 million), that is still whiter than America has ever been, plus a valuable trojan horse position within the Atlantic 'alliance' and we will never forget what you did to us. America is losing on all fronts: it has given Iraq to the Iranians, Europe is forced into energy dependence to the white christian nationalist Russians (a good thing from racial perspective), the US is facing an economic armageddon, and is controlled by a zionist faction who does not care about the fate of America. The US is invaded from all sides by hostile foreigners with an historic and racial axe to grind, an invasion encouraged by the anti-white zionist cabal that rules the joint. The European strategy must be to play the Russian card. Siberia alone constitutes 10% of the worlds land mass, a valuable asset in the new reality of global warming. The white race must sacrifice Australia and give it to the Chinese, Britain to the Islam, America will be torn apart as a result of ethnic strife, like it does everywhere and every time. We Europeans must be prepared to 'storm the opposite beach' once the dams start to break and participate in the coming land grab and secure land for our cousins, who will be simply recolonized by us Europeans. The coming zionist induced war of the US against Iran will be the straw that will break the camels back.

 

[Corsair 115]

He was completely surprised because he knew that the Germans never planned for an invasion of the USSR.

Then how do you explain the fact that in July of 1940 that Alfred Jodl, chief of operations staff at OKW, had been told by Hitler of his intention to invade the Soviet Union? A meeting was held on 29 July 1940 between Jodl, Walter Warlimont (Jodl's planning chief), Bernhard von Lossberg, and two other senior officers, in which Jodl announced that Hitler had decided to attack Russia and it was their job to come up with the invasion plans. Further corroboration comes from that same day when Franz Halder (chief of the army's general staff) told Erich Marcks (chief of staff of the 18th Army) to prepare and invasion plan.

Or do you wish to suggest all these senior military leaders of the Reich were preparing an invasion plan without the Führer's orders or knowledge?

Don't bother offering that suggestion, incidentally, it won't work. In the Berghof conference, held on 31 July 1940, Hitler expressed his view that Germany could defeat Russia alone (which is why Japan wasn't informed of Germany's intentions), and he preferred the Japanese to take on the Americans since that would keep the U.S. busy and unable to continue aiding the British.

 

[9/11-investigator]

Then how do you explain the fact that in July of 1940 that Alfred Jodl, chief of operations staff at OKW, had been told by Hitler of his intention to invade the Soviet Union? A meeting was held on 29 July 1940 between Jodl, Walter Warlimont (Jodl's planning chief), Bernhard von Lossberg, and two other senior officers, in which Jodl announced that Hitler had decided to attack Russia and it was their job to come up with the invasion plans. Further corroboration comes from that same day when Franz Halder (chief of the army's general staff) told Erich Marcks (chief of staff of the 18th Army) to prepare and invasion plan.

Or do you wish to suggest all these senior military leaders of the Reich were preparing an invasion plan without the Führer's orders or knowledge?

Explanation: Hitler understood the world revolutionary intentions of communism as early as in the twenties, when he wrote Mein Kampf. Heck, even Churchill understood it, the entire British ruling class were afraid of communism. Does anybody of my opponents wants to deny the figures of tank armaments Suvorov gives us? Namely that the USSR vastly outnumbered (factor 7) Germany in offensive weapons like tanks? The new explananation according to Suvorov (and now even American writers, nay even Strobe Talbot) is that Germany attacked the USSR because the Soviets started amassing troops at the German and Romanian border. The Germans had to act like the pepper spray lady.

And that's were Buchanan comes in: the British blundered on the geo-strategic level. They should have considered Germany as the lesser evil, a devil of their own Allied making in Versailles. They should have let Germany and the USSR fight it out until they were both exhausted and only then should the Anglos have intervened. Instead they gave half of Europe away to the Bolshevists; thanks to the Nazis at least Western Europe was spared this fate. That's why Suvurov says that the USSR 'lost' WW2 because they failed in their aim of conquering the entire Eurasian land mass. Thanks Adolf. And the other good thing Dolfie did was kicking the Jews out, who mainly ended up in the US, Israel, South-America. With a consequence that the US is going to be multiculturally destroyed first and not Europe.

We in Europe have 30 million invaders on a population of 500 million, mainly with strong Islamic convictions, that cannot be integrated in Europe and are now busy conquering Europe street by street. But they will be easily dealt with when the raceless Anglos will be vanished from the Page of Time. We on the Right only have to wait while the tide is changing in Europe. The leadership of the left will be crushed between the Islamic invaders and the right wingers who will defend Europe, who will have an easy time mobilizing the white masses (just like the Nazis had an easy time mobilizing the masses against Bolshevism and the Versailles-Anglos). In Holland people like van Agt, Terpstra, the pvda leadership, etc. probably will end up the same way the NSB top brass did, namely in the dunes. Every revolution needs it's guilliotine material. The American/Soviet century, the twentieth century, was essentially an egalitarian, left-wing century. This century was made possible because of industrialization and technological/scientific progress, enabling the elites to buy off differences. The twenty-first century however will be identitarian, archaic, clannish, racialist, 'civilisationist', anti-egalitarian, anti-feminist, aristocratic for the same reason that the 20th century was left-wing: industrial society is going to collapse on a planetary scale due to lack of resources.

Everything will depend on building alliances. EU-Russia first. We can even temporarily include China to bring ZOG-USA down in a non-violent way (by dumping the dollar). And constitutionalists like Ron Paul types and future tea-partiers (not now, the tea party is still imperialist and raceless).

 

[Corsair 115]

It is not difficult to overhear the pleasure Corsair has in the destruction of his mother civilization.

I haven't actually looked into it, but given my surname, my background lies with the French, not the Germans. But that is immaterial.

The Germans were outnumbered 7 to 1 by the Allies and never were looking for this war.

Then they should have tried harder to avoid it by not initiating an invasion of Poland, an invasion of Belgium, and France, Demark, Holland... the list goes on.

The Americans and Russians were looking for this war at the cost of Europe.

Yeah, I guess that's why Russia didn't start fighting Germany until after being invaded by it, why the U.S. didn't start fighting Germany until after being attacked by Japan and after Germany declared war on the U.S.

And the Anglos played an insignificant part in WW2, they just limited themselves to killing civilians, nothing else...

Other than help cripple the German economy that is. I guess that vaunted German military intelligence should have paid a little more attention to the defence of its airspace.

and joined the party only when it was almost over (mid 1944), when the Russians had already won.

Other than help liberate occupied western Europe from the clutches of the Nazis, that is. It was the North American cousins of the Anglos who freed most of your nation from the Germans and helped stop the mass starvation that was setting in. Or have you forgotten that little bit of history already?

As soon as the Anglo encounters real resistance, he runs; uh sorry, 'gloriously advances towards the Channel'.

I seem to recall it was the Germans running in Normandy once the breakout happened.

Seriously, the war between the Soviets and the Nazis was the core of WW2.

But not without the help of the progressive destruction of the German economy by American and British bomber forces which eventually made Germany incapable of defending itself to any meaningful degree. Or do 1,200 German tanks without fuel constitute a useful military force in your alternate reality?

Then of course there is the huge amount of aid which flowed from the U.S. and Britain to the Soviets via the convoys. The U.S. supplied Russia with some 12,500 armoured vehicles; the British, 4,200 (Canada contributed another 2,700). The United States sent Russia more than 13,000 aircraft, and the British sent some 4,600. Now, in fairness, the Soviets weren't particularly impressed with many of the Western designs, but they did very much like the American P-39 and P-63, which they put to very effective use. They received a total of 4,700 of the former and 2,400 of the latter.

But perhaps even more important that the combat equipment was the enormous amount of vitally important support vehicles delivered. The western Allies supplied Russian with nearly 78,000 jeeps and some 350,000 transport trucks. Then add to that nearly 2,000 locomotives, over 11,000 railroad cars, 540,000 tons of rails, and huge amounts of other important war material such as explosives, chemicals, tires, food, gasoline, machine tools, combat boots, and over 1,000,000 miles of field telephone cable, just to name some of the items.

But I'm sure none of that was of any value to the Russian war effort, was it?

But the times are changing, Corsair. Now it is you who is going to be destroyed. We have a united Europe (500 million), that is still whiter than America has ever been, plus a valuable trojan horse position within the Atlantic 'alliance' and we will never forget what you did to us....

*remainder of bizarre rant snipped*

I'm not an American. One does not have to be an American to point out the idiocy and borderline insanity of your comments.

 

[dafydd]

The nazi piece of filth keeps getting crazier and crazier.

It is a fascinating yet repellent glimpse into the cesspit that passes for a mind in the Holocaust denier.

 

[Corsair 115]

Explanation: Hitler understood the world revolutionary intentions of communism as early as in the twenties, when he wrote Mein Kampf. Heck, even Churchill understood it, the entire British ruling class were afraid of communism.

What you apparently fail to appreciate is that it proves your assertion that Germany had no plans to invade the Soviet Union as stated by you in post #2244 ("the Germans never planned for an invasion of the USSR") is totally false. Germany, almost a year before the event, had begun planning the invasion of Russia, as the record of its top generals clearly illustrates. It had begun planning the invasion at the same time it was fighting for for air superiority over the skies of Britain.

So, when can I expect a retraction of your discredited claim?

Does anybody of my opponents wants to deny the figures of tank armaments Suvorov gives us? Namely that the USSR vastly outnumbered (factor 7) Germany in offensive weapons like tanks? The new explananation according to Suvorov (and now even American writers, nay even Strobe Talbot) is that Germany attacked the USSR because the Soviets started amassing troops at the German and Romanian border. They had to act like the pepper spray lady.

You clearly don't know anything about basic military tactics. As I already told you once before, defence is much easier than offence. This is particularly true for tanks. A tank in a defensive defilade has a marked advantage over an assualting tank: it can remain stationary when firing while the attacker is on the move and its accuracy impaired; the defending tank is also only exposing its turret, making it a much smaller target to hit compared to the attacking tank which is out in the open. The defending tank is also much more difficult to spot than the attacking vehicle, since the defender can make use of camoflage to conceal its position. Then you can add in artillery support, which can be called down upon the attacking forces. The single largest cause of casualties amongst infantry in WWII was not other infantry, it was artillery.

And there's yet another simple yet extremely effective defensive device against tanks: land mines. They're cheap, require no crew, and are easy to use: just bury them in the ground and they're ready to work. Over 20% of tank losses in WWII were due to land mines.

With the proper defences, Germany could have bled dry any Russian assault. But the peace-loving Reich never opted for defence. It instead, almost a year beforehand, began laying its plans for an invasion. So much for your theory—demolished by both fact and logic.

 

[dafydd]

I would be inclined to take 911 Investigator off ignore if he would just admit once that he was wrong about something.I suppose that he is carrying on in the Hitler tradition of megalomania.

 

[9/11-investigator]

I haven't actually looked into it, but given my surname, my background lies with the French, not the Germans. But that is immaterial.

So what are you then? A Cajun? Quebecquois?

Then they should have tried harder to avoid it by not initiating an invasion of Poland, an invasion of Belgium, and France, Demark, Holland... the list goes on.

We could argue about Poland, but the invasion of the other countries was provoked by the British who started to prepare for similar 1914 kind of invasions themselves. It were French and British who had declared war on Germany, not the other way around.

Yeah, I guess that's why Russia didn't start fighting Germany until after being invaded by it, why the U.S. didn't start fighting Germany until after being attacked by Japan and after Germany declared war on the U.S.

Are you denying that Russia was preparing for the invasion of Western Europe. Even a dudalb admits that. And for the US, I have shown that Roosevelt was plotting for US war entry in Europe all along. And he achieved his aim via Japan.

Other than help cripple the German economy that is. I guess that vaunted German military intelligence should have paid a little more attention to the defence of its airspace.

Other than help liberate occupied western Europe from the clutches of the Nazis, that is. It was the North American cousins of the Anglos who freed most of your nation from the Germans and helped stop the mass starvation that was setting in. Or have you forgotten that little bit of history already?

This is like saying that you helped putting out the fire after you caused the burning in the first place!

I seem to recall it was the Germans running in Normandy once the breakout happened.

Nobody denies that Germany lost. But they lost honourably against an overwhelmingly outnumbering force.

But not without the help of the progressive destruction of the German economy by American and British bomber forces which eventually made Germany incapable of defending itself to any meaningful degree. Or do 1,200 German tanks without fuel constitute a useful military force in your alternate reality?

That might have contributed to the end result, but the Germans really lost due to the endless spaces of Russia in which the Russians could steadily retreat without losing the game. Had the Germans captured Moscow, the spider in centralistically organized USSR, that probably would have dissolved the USSR. Unfortunately that did not happen, but it was close.

Then of course there is the huge amount of aid which flowed from the U.S. and Britain to the Soviets via the convoys. The U.S. supplied Russia with some 12,500 armoured vehicles; the British, 4,200 (Canada contributed another 2,700). The United States sent Russia more than 13,000 aircraft, and the British sent some 4,600. Now, in fairness, the Soviets weren't particularly impressed with many of the Western designs, but they did very much like the American P-39 and P-63, which they put to very effective use. They received a total of 4,700 of the former and 2,400 of the latter.

But perhaps even more important that the combat equipment was the enormous amount of vitally important support vehicles delivered. The western Allies supplied Russian with nearly 78,000 jeeps and some 350,000 transport trucks. Then add to that nearly 2,000 locomotives, over 11,000 railroad cars, 540,000 tons of rails, and huge amounts of other important war material such as explosives, chemicals, tires, food, gasoline, machine tools, combat boots, and over 1,000,000 miles of field telephone cable, just to name some of the items.

But I'm sure none of that was of any value to the Russian war effort, was it?

Sure. All implicitly adds to the incredible effort the German giants delivered while fighting against all odds. But the physical fighting was done by the Russians (Russia is a real nation unlike America); as said Americans even lose from Somalians and Vietnamese and are no match for Germans.

I'm not an American. One does not have to be an American to point out the idiocy and borderline insanity of your comments.

So what are you then? From Quebec?

 

[9/11-investigator]

What you apparently fail to appreciate is that it proves your assertion that Germany had no plans to invade the Soviet Union as stated by you in post #2244 ("the Germans never planned for an invasion of the USSR") is totally false. Germany, almost a year before the event, had begun planning the invasion of Russia, as the record of its top generals clearly illustrates. It had begun planning the invasion at the same time it was fighting for for air superiority over the skies of Britain.

So, when can I expect a retraction of your discredited claim?

I am learning myself while this thread is progressing. I believed in the Lebensraum theory when I started this thread. But after Suvorov and Schultz-R I am inclined to believe differently. When I say 'Germans never planned for an invasion of the USSR' then I now mean to say: "they did not plan from an agressive standpoint". They were preparing for a Soviet attack that would come anyway as even opponents like dudalb admit.

You clearly don't know anything about basic military tactics. As I already told you once before, defence is much easier than offence. This is particularly true for tanks. A tank in a defensive defilade has a marked advantage over an assualting tank: it can remain stationary when firing while the attacker is on the move and its accuracy impaired; the defending tank is also only exposing its turret, making it a much smaller target to hit compared to the attacking tank which is out in the open. The defending tank is also much more difficult to spot than the attacking vehicle, since the defender can make use of camoflage to conceal its position. Then you can add in artillery support, which can be called down upon the attacking forces. The single largest cause of casualties amongst infantry in WWII was not other infantry, it was artillery.

And there's yet another simple yet extremely effective defensive device against tanks: land mines. They're cheap, require no crew, and are easy to use: just bury them in the ground and they're ready to work. Over 20% of tank losses in WWII were due to land mines.

Might all be true. Your point?

With the proper defences, Germany could have bled dry any Russian assault. But the peace-loving Reich never opted for defence. It instead, almost a year beforehand, began laying its plans for an invasion. So much for your theory—demolished by both fact and logic.

It was somebody in this thread who claimed that you need a 3 to 1 superiority to start an attack. That is exactly what Suvorov says. But the peaceloving Soviets (your buddy) had an advantage of 7 to 1 in this respect! The chances for defense were bleak for the Germans; they had no vast hinterland like the Soviets had. The only chance the Germans thought they had (they never had one) was the pepper spray surprise. Yes they were planing an invasion 1 year in advance because they understood the world revolutionary intensions of the Soviets. The Germans never aspired for world revolution because they were nationalists, unlike the Jews, 'the Chosen' for whom world enslavement Soviet style is the alpha and omega of their world view. They tried it via the USSR (using economic egalitarialism), they are trying it now via the USA (racial egalitarialism). They will fail like they failed with the USSR: because their imposed value system is counter natural. In the end it will undermine the host territory that they have captured mentally/spiritually, using their mass media as brainwashing machine.

But the internet is going to change all that.

 

[Andy_Ross]

whiter than America has ever been

Which is important because?
Hitler made that mistake, discounting the USA as a Mongrel nation.

Hitlers Worst Nightmare

 

[Belz...]

Again the example I used earlier. Weaker woman in parking garage is approached in straight line by big silent man of undefined color. He probably wants to rob her. As soon as he has her wrists in his grip she has lost. She has one means of defense, that is strike first by grabbing the pepper spray from her purse and use it (preventive war) before he can grab her wrists. Fine 'choice' she has!

Well, she does, but that's not very analogous to the situation in WWII, unless you're about to claim that Stalin's troops were advancing into German-controlled territories already when Barbarossa was launched.

 

[Belz...]

That is the North-American for you, totally confusing reality and movies. Starship Enterprise will autorepair itself after being hit by a meteor. In reality they are unable to put a man in orbit. Boldly going nowhere. America run out of Nazi's to do spectacular projects for them. Now aging childless white Americans have to spend their tax dollars on health care for invaders who have plenty of children. More than 50% of the new borns in the US are none-whites. Whites will become a minority in 2020 and will constitute 10% of the population in 2100, assuming the US will still exist, which it won't.

What are you babbling about now ? Do you even know who Christopher Lee is ? The man's as multi-talented as you can imagine: and he's a REAL person.

Sheesh.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Ships are basically an asset of the enemy, completely outdated. We already saw during the Falklands war that those party with the most exocet missiles would have won. That was 30 years ago. Today missiles with mach-2/3 exist that can be launched from a 2000 miles distance. There is no defence against them. It will be a heart lifting sight when an American carrier will go belly up in the vicinity of the Gulf, when Iran will be attacked and America will shoot itself in the foot by giving Iran the excuse to simply shut off the Gulf by sinking one or two oil tankers, bringing the entire West to it's economic knees.

You're appalling ignorance of the modern military obvious. You can't skim an article and learn anything of value. Try attacking a USN CBG sometime. Please, oh please try it.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

That is the North-American for you, totally confusing reality and movies. Starship Enterprise will autorepair itself after being hit by a meteor. In reality they are unable to put a man in orbit. Boldly going nowhere. America run out of Nazi's to do spectacular projects for them. Now aging childless white Americans have to spend their tax dollars on health care for invaders who have plenty of children. More than 50% of the new borns in the US are none-whites. Whites will become a minority in 2020 and will constitute 10% of the population in 2100, assuming the US will still exist, which it won't.

You don't even know that Christopher Lee was British.