Who started both World Wars?

[Andy_Ross]

Russia opposed releasing Hess, Britain and the USA wanted to let him go.

 

[Belz...]

In the modern world it is almost forbidden to talk about race, thanks to the outcome of WW2 and the interpretation of the events as handed over to us by the victors.

Actually, your interpretation is, as usual, way off. Talking about "race" is incorrect because there are no races, and any attempt to categorise one person will be difficult.

Take me, for instance. What's my "race" ? French Canadian ? French ? European ? Caucasian ? Ginger ? I'm also part Scottish... how do you reconcile that ? And what race is Obama ? He's obviously slightly mixed.

But in their hearts the majority has racial preferences (for their own kind).

It's not racial. It's everything. We prefer people of our own opinion, too.

 

[Belz...]

You know nothing about me.

Well, we know how bad you are at history or rational thinking.

 

[Belz...]

Ergo, it is justified to bomb towns indiscriminately, because we can be sure that some of these civilians during the day are assembling weapons.

I still fail to understand why you seek to reimagine the vile, murderous Nazis in such a favourable light, while simultaneously demonizing the nations that did their best to cast them down. What's this crusade of yours, and why are you so enthralled by such an obviously evil regime as the Nazis ?

The mental contortions you go through in order to create this reversal of moral ground for both sides of the war indicates, to me, a psychological need for it. But I can't understand _why_ it's there. I mean, most people have a need to believe, say, in UFOs, or Ghosts, but they don't simultaneously switch both sides of the coin, so I guess your need is even greater; great enough to ignore all historical records and fashion your own timeline of events, and great enough to reinvent the characters of thousands of people in order to fit with your prefered world-view.

But why ?

Makes one wonder why the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor. I mean Japan has a higher national IQ than the US.

And what is it with people like you and the use of useless information as a basis for judgment ? Race, IQ, etc. Why are they, to you, so important, when most people and experts don't even consider them ?

 

[twinstead]

I too am fascinated by people who are consumed by what 'race' somebody is, as if it makes ANY difference at all. I know quite a few of them, although not many of them are smart enough to both invent alternate realities and debate them on internet forums.

Congratulations, 9/11-investigator; you must have a pretty high IQ.

 

[9/11-investigator]

It must totally torque you that the French cleaned them up so fast, and that this combination of weak racial blood lines kicked German supremecy all over Europe not once but twice

I probably missed something but according to me the Germans in 1940 had steam-rolled almost the entire Western-Europe within 6 weeks, including driving the Brits out. The Germans lost basically from Russia. The total war effort was:

USSR - 80%
USA - 15%
UK - 5%

The British were merely walking in the way. They tried to make themselves useful in killing a few hundred thousand children and women from 10 km altitude and had some fun in the desert, but that was about it. Arthur Lowe's Dad's Army entered the real theater when the show was already almost over.

 

[9/11-investigator]

Actually, your interpretation is, as usual, way off. Talking about "race" is incorrect because there are no races

That's an insane idea. Can't you see the difference between Europe or America and Africa? Come on now. The difference is race.

A Sub-Saharan IQ of 65 or so will make it clear once and for all that societies will never be able to maintain an industrial society.

 

[9/11-investigator]

Russia opposed releasing Hess, Britain and the USA wanted to let him go.

You clearly don't know what you are talking about. Here is the account of the events as described by Rudolf Hess' son:

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v13/v13n1p24_Hess.html

It also became clear to me during the course of this meeting that there were conflicting views in Moscow about how to deal with the "Hess case." Those who were sympathetic to us, led by Secretary General Gorbachev, were clearly gaining the upper hand.This evaluation was confirmed a short time later in a report published in the German news magazine Der Spiegel (April 13, 1987). The article, which appeared under the headline "Will Gorbachev release Hess?," reported on a fundamental change in the attitude of the Soviet party leader toward the "Hess case." Gorbachev, it went on, took the view that the release of Spandau's last prisoner would be an action "that would be accepted worldwide as a gesture of humanity," and which "could also be justified to the Soviet people."

But it is understandable why 'Captain_Swoop' has his opinions:

If the western custodial powers had not already been aware of Gorbachev's intention, they certainly were after the publication of the Spiegel article in April. This undoubtedly set off alarm bells in Britain and the United States, since this new Soviet move would remove the last remaining legal obstacle to my father's release. For many years the British, American and French governments had said that they were ready to agree to Hess' release, but that it was only the Soviet veto that prevented it. Gorbachev's new initiative threatened to call the British and American bluff.

 

[JimBenArm]

A Sub-Saharan IQ of 65 or so will make it clear once and for all that societies will never be able to maintain an industrial society.

You know what high IQ test scores indicate?

An ability to do well on IQ tests.

They don't indicate "intelligence", as if you could accurately define what that is. They most certainly suffer from too much cultural bias, and have historically been used as an excuse to abuse groups of people that bigots don't like much.

Read "The Mismeasure of Man" by Dr. Stephen Jay Gould. You might learn a thing or five.

That is, if you are capable of learning.

Oh, that's right. I'm on ignore. Oh, well, guess another learning opportunity will elude you. As have all the others.

 

[9/11-investigator]

I still fail to understand why you seek to reimagine the vile, murderous Nazis in such a favourable light, while simultaneously demonizing the nations that did their best to cast them down. What's this crusade of yours, and why are you so enthralled by such an obviously evil regime as the Nazis ?

I have said it several times before: I don't like it that my country and civilization are being destroyed using a false interpretation of history.

And what is it with people like you and the use of useless information as a basis for judgment ? Race, IQ, etc. Why are they, to you, so important, when most people and experts don't even consider them ?

See remark above.

 

[9/11-investigator]

Really? Hess died at 93 from suicide. The Russians kept him at Spandau because Spandau is in West Berlin. Hess stated

“I knew that there was only one way out — and that was certainly not to fight against England,” Hess said into the tape recorder. “Even though I did not get permission from the Führer to fly I knew that what I had to say would have had his approval. Hitler had great respect for the English people ... little did I know that Churchill did not have the power to stop the rolling stone. I went too late.”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article7144499.ece

Shows Matthew's sloppiness: he says that Hess committed suicide and than posts a link that says the opposite.

Hess’s mysterious death in 1987 fed the myths. “It must have been murder,” Mr Zwar says. According to the official version, Hess, 93, blind in one eye and unable to feed himself, hid from the sentries in the prison towers, wrapped an electric flex around his neck and hanged himself. “He could not even raise his arms above shoulder level,” Mr Zwar says. “To hang yourself you have to be able to do that.”

You are quit a character, Matthew.

Interestingly the link is also posted on Irving's site with this accompanying text: Desmond Zwar publishes a book which repeats everything David Irving already revealed in 1987 book HESS, THE MISSING YEARS

This is what really happened:

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v13/v13n1p24_Hess.html

Reich Minister Rudolf Hess was killed on the orders of the British Home Office. The murder was committed by two members of the British SAS (22nd SAS Regiment, SAS Depot Bradbury Lines, Hereford, England). The military unit of the SAS [Special Air Service] is subordinated to the British Home Office -- not to the Ministry of Defense. The planning of the murder as well as its direction was carried out by MI-5.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

So although the French, British and Americans said they'd be content to let Hess go years before if the Soviets had agreed, you'd rather believe that Hess was murdered by the British. Any plausible motive appears to be missing, and your "evidence" is an anonymous fantasist reported by an apologist? Unconvincing to say the very least.

 

[HawksFan]

You know what high IQ test scores indicate?

An ability to do well on IQ tests.

They don't indicate "intelligence", as if you could accurately define what that is. They most certainly suffer from too much cultural bias, and have historically been used as an excuse to abuse groups of people that bigots don't like much.

Read "The Mismeasure of Man" by Dr. Stephen Jay Gould. You might learn a thing or five.

That is, if you are capable of learning.

Oh, that's right. I'm on ignore. Oh, well, guess another learning opportunity will elude you. As have all the others.

Just for you, Jim. Wouldn't want Jam missing a learning opportunity, now would we?

 

[excaza]

That's an insane idea. Can't you see the difference between Europe or America and Africa? Come on now. The difference is race.

A Sub-Saharan IQ of 65 or so will make it clear once and for all that societies will never be able to maintain an industrial society.

wow

 

[JimBenArm]

Just for you, Jim. Wouldn't want Jam missing a learning opportunity, now would we?

[elvis] thank yuh. Thank yuh verreh much. [/elvis]

 

[9/11-investigator]

Just for you, Jim. Wouldn't want Jam missing a learning opportunity, now would we?

OMG, Jim the guy, who was so kind to inform us unasked that he is circumsized, now tries to peddle his fellow tribesman, marxist charlatan and race denier Gould.

http://www.heretical.com/ofarrell/heilhund.html

You see, if we admit that race exists, we may end up in Auschwitz. I didn’t think back then that if we deny that race exists, we may end up in the Gulag. Nor did I think about other consequences of race denial: for example, its use to justify mass immigration, which has flooded white homelands with non-whites from a rich variety of violent and corrupt Third World nations.

 

[twinstead]

I have said it several times before: I don't like it that my country and civilization are being destroyed using a false interpretation of history.

There are those who would accuse YOU of using a false interpretation of history. Who is right then? How exactly are we supposed to tell if yours is right?

 

[JimBenArm]

OMG, Jim the guy, who was so kind to inform us unasked that he is circumsized, now tries to peddle his fellow tribesman, marxist charlatan and race denier Gould.

http://www.heretical.com/ofarrell/heilhund.html

So, I guess you won't be reading his book?

Nah, too likely you'd learn something.

And you seem very interested in my circumcision. Wanna see it?

 

[9/11-investigator]

9/11 -Investigator, what are your opinions on Dr Josef Mengele and his experiments which involved killing identical twins, injecting benzene into human beings just to see what would happen, doing things to kill one twin while the other one may well survive, standing people out in the winter in wet clothing to see how long it would take them to die, immersing human beings in ice baths to see how long it would take them to die.. etc..

Mengele, Mengele... you mean this man (left):

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v06/v06p377_Weber.html

Many Jews survived the war as a result of medical care in the camp infirmary, which was under Dr. Mengele's general supervision. One such person was Otto Frank, father of the famous Anne Frank.

What I think of these experiments? Terrible! In gravity comparable to the crimes of these Iraqi soldiers who killed Kuwaiti babies in incubators. Thank God we have to Americans to make us aware of these atrocities.

http://www.codoh.com/review/revmengele.html

What is your opinion on the German state systematically killing the mentally handicapped from well before WWII started?

Barbaric. The practice was abandoned after protests from the population and the church more in particular, meaning that German society had enough moral resources to stop this without Anglo intervention.

Was all this pretty good? Part of the kind of society you'd like to eventually be a part of?

I could of course say that I am no Nazi, but you and your buddies are not going to accept that anyway for propagandistic reasons, so we leave that for what it is. You seem to ask for a sort of carte blanche to write history as you please just because, you see, the Germans committed atrocities every now and then. I am afraid that I am not going to give you that privilege. We are going to rewrite history more in line with the truth, even if that makes you look less good. I am sorry.

How is all that in any way morally comparable to the bombing the Allies were doing (which the Axis powers would surely have similarly been doing themselves if they had not already lost the Air War)?

So far you only credibly came up with an euthenasia program that was abandoned after pressure from the population. I think that the Anglo euthanasia program carried out on the German population (via bombing) was far larger in scale and was not restricted to people leading a miserable life.

The bombing was part of trying not to lose the war (self-preservation) by inflicting maximum damage on the means of resistance (factories and workers of opposing economy).

You fail to realize that the war was declared upon Germany by the Allies. If you had not declared war on Germany there never had been a risk of losing it.

That shouldn't be so difficult to understand. Unless, perhaps, you have a neo-nazi worldview and a lazy-lob-on infatuation with Adolf Hitler which clouds your reasoning.

I find you very easy to understand after I have developed, during my time spend here, a model of the mental make-up of the average Anglo. The most striking trait of that make-up is the inconsumable urge to smear everybody all the time.

Any questions?

 

[9/11-investigator]

There are those who would accuse YOU of using a false interpretation of history. Who is right then? How exactly are we supposed to tell if yours is right?

Just like in soccer, play the full 90 minutes.
Prolongation not excluded.
If still no decision: penalties.