Who says The Bible isn't true?

[Beerina]

I find the character of Jesus inspirational. He was a righteous dude, apparently.


M.

God gives himself a complete and total mindwipe, and becomes a human, and shows how, purely through faith accessible by humans, one can heal the sick, resist temptation, resurrect others, and even be resurrected onself.

He may have had a kind heart, but things like the Beatitudes are placation memes designed to protect the power-hungry from the masses. "Don't worry, your reward is in the next life."

Ironically, it's never been truer, but even for Jesus, the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

 

[Beerina]

Let me try to come up with a harder one.

Can someone come up with scriptural support for skepticism or atheism?

I think the closest you're gonna get is where the OT mentions the existence of other, real, existant gods or godlike creatures. Hence Judeo/Christianity is not a true monotheism.

1. Pharoah's cleric turned a stick into two snakes. Only gods can create life. Therefore Egypt's gods exist, independent of Yahweh. (I've since had it pointed out that Islam has fixed up this gaping hole by adding a line to the effect that the cleric used prestidigitation. Of course, if the cleric was skilled enough to conjur two snakes like a stage magician, then certainly Moses could have conjured one, and much more easily. Note that conjuring them does fix the "problem" of polytheism, but the story then loses it's punch as a parable of how badass Yahweh is vis-a-vis other gods.)

2. Psalms refers to Yahweh's battles with Behemoth, the great chaos beast, and Leviathan, the great chaos dragon. These are leftovers from stories from proto-Judiasm and earlier, typically formation of the Earth type stories where the up-and-coming nth generation godling finally beats down the opposition (beasts, dragons, titans, all the other gods, whatever) and assumes his place at the top.

So there's at least something to be skeptical about within the Bible itself -- that the standard interpretation of Christianity as monotheistic is technically inaccurate.

 

[Mr Clingford]

He may have had a kind heart, but things like the Beatitudes are placation memes designed to protect the power-hungry from the masses. "Don't worry, your reward is in the next life."

Surely the example of Ghandi goes against the argument? One of the influences on Ghandi was the teachings of Jesus and through his non-violent resistance Ghandi helped overthrow the British Raj.

 

[Ethnikos]

I believe that all the allegory, symbolism and metaphorical references in the Bible all have some sort of fulfillment or object in the real world.
No matter how much it is in need of interpretation, it does interpret out to something real.

 

[six7s]

Surely the example of Ghandi goes against the argument? One of the influences on Ghandi was the teachings of Jesus and through his non-violent resistance Ghandi helped overthrow the British Raj.

Is this some sort of spiral logic?

One of the influences on me is The Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy and using my opposable thumbs I helped to cook dinner last night. Does that mean that The Restaurant At The End Of The Universe is taking bookings?

 

[six7s]

I believe that all the allegory, symbolism and metaphorical references in the Bible all have some sort of fulfillment or object in the real world.

Although I'm familiar with all of the words you have used, I don't understand what point you are trying to make

What does the phrase "some sort of fulfillment or object" mean?

No matter how much it is in need of interpretation, it does interpret out to something real.

Is this a good thing?

 

[Ethnikos]

An example is a vision by John of a city with certain dimensions descending from heaven to be planted on earth.
Someone could say that the measurement of the city can not be right because it would make the city so big that it would be above the atmosphere, therefore the city has to be some sort of allegory and not a real city.
My answer would be that the actual numbers given by John for the measurement may be symbolic but in the end, you still end up with a city.
The point I am trying to make is that despite the allegorical or symbolic nature of what the Bible describes, it does, in the end describe something.
The fact that you do not understand exactly what the Bible is saying, does not make the Bible false.

 

[six7s]

The fact that you do not understand exactly what the Bible is saying, does not make the Bible false.

Nor does it make it true

The fact that what the Bible says is so vague that no one interpretation can be asserted above all others does make the Bible a rather useless source of anything than woo-affirming woo

 

[Ethnikos]

I noticed I was in the smallest minority from the poll at the top of this thread.
I guess that should be expected on a forum for skeptics.
I suppose Woo is the proper term for anything supernatural.
The Bible was written by people very well experienced in Woo.
I suppose you need to have the spirit of Woo inside you to fully appreciate the Bible.

 

[Nogbad]

I noticed I was in the smallest minority from the poll at the top of this thread.
I guess that should be expected on a forum for skeptics.
I suppose Woo is the proper term for anything supernatural.
The Bible was written by people very well experienced in Woo.
I suppose you need to have the spirit of Woo inside you to fully appreciate the Bible.

Someone had to keep DOC company

I went for a mix of myth and history. I would have voted a mix of myth, history and culture - given the option.

 

[Toke]

Test all things, and hold firmly that which is good.
- 1 Thessalonians 5:21

If pressed they would insist it was taken out of context,
as in good = god

Therefore all testing must comply with biblical interpetation.

 

[Ethnikos]

I would have liked a few more options myself.
There are some contradictions in the Gospels.
It is hard for me to think both things could be true.
But the first response to the pol seemed to be the closest.
I am well aware of all the controversy concerning the Bible.
I can not think of a suitable substitute, so I will go with this book.
I suppose most people here would prefer to write their own book, as they go along.

 

[Nogbad]

I would have liked a few more options myself.
There are some contradictions in the Gospels.
It is hard for me to think both things could be true.
But the first response to the pol seemed to be the closest.
I am well aware of all the controversy concerning the Bible.
I can not think of a suitable substitute, so I will go with this book.
I suppose most people here would prefer to write their own book, as they go along.

An awful lot of people have written the Bible as they went along. Oh for sure the words are the same and the order is the same - it is only the meaning that changes.

 

[Brian-M]

I would have liked a few more options myself.

Originally, I was intending to put a lot more options in, but it started to get too complicated, so I decided on a more general approach. I'm still surprised at how many people chose the last option. I only put that in to balance things out.

ETA

I wonder how the same poll would fare on a Christian forum?

 

[RandFan]

Can someone come up with scriptural support for skepticism...

"Prove All Things; Hold Fast That Which Is Good (true)" --I Thes 5:21

Damn, Toke beat me to it. One of my favorite scriptures.

 

[Mr Clingford]

Is this some sort of spiral logic?

No, it's straightforward, actually, so I don't know why you don't grasp it.

One of the influences on me is The Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy and using my opposable thumbs I helped to cook dinner last night. Does that mean that The Restaurant At The End Of The Universe is taking bookings?

Well, that's, nice and pretty but irrelevant.

 

[Ethnikos]

Originally, I was intending to put a lot more options in, but it started to get too complicated, so I decided on a more general approach. I'm still surprised at how many people chose the last option. I only put that in to balance things out.

ETA

I wonder how the same poll would fare on a Christian forum?

You would get a bunch of people saying that only the King James Version is true and all the others should be burned.

 

[Upchurch]

I thought that was Ferrris Bueller.

As far as I'm aware, Jesus never had a single lesson on the clarinet either.

 

[six7s]

Is this some sort of spiral logic?

No, it's straightforward, actually, so I don't know why you don't grasp it.

You might want/need to believe so. That does not make it so.

I find it ridiculously ironical that you seem incapable of recognising that your own 'cherry picking' of one of Ghandi's influences, (although possibly "nice and pretty", for you at least) is nevertheless "irrelevant"