Which political party wants you dead?

[ponderingturtle]

I'm getting tired of people telling me I'm "confused" because they disagree with me. Short answer: items 1-4 are already being done by the government, via Medicare. Most insurance companies simply use the Medicare numbers as their base, then add on here and there to ensure profitability. Seriously. For those of us who have worked in reimbursement, the first thing a private insurance company says during an appeal is "well, Medicare only allows $X for that procedure".

And what exactly is "completely screwed up" about the "fed's" payments? Medicare payments are electronic now. They're faster, and far more reliable, than commercial insurers. Medicare doesn't indulge in retractions. The providers I worked for loved Medicare, because there was a much better chance of getting the money -- all the money-- owed, whereas commercial insurers liked to play games, sending less than is owed, hoping eventually the providers would give up and write off the difference. It can take three or four years for private insurers to pay up, and often it's after arguments and appeals and refiles.

But think about all the make work jobs for excess college graduates this process provides!

 

[ponderingturtle]

Uhhm, no. There is no way in hell a UHC system could sustain itself with everybody paying what I do, much less two or three times less. The only reason I pay so little is because I am about as low risk as can be, and the insurance company charges me accordingly. Plus I have a large deductible.

Of course it could. Medicare and Medicaid have a per capita cost equal to the per capita health care cost of any other nation.

 

[ponderingturtle]

That doesn't mean that every individual pays double what they would.

There is no way in hell that UHC would mean that I would pay half what I do now. I pay less than $70/month!

And of course pay nothing in taxes used to support others. Keep an eye out for the IRS.

 

[ponderingturtle]

So you want to cut the cost by half? Which hospitals and clinics will you close, which doctors, nurses, technicians will you lay off, which drugs and procedures will you prohibit to contains costs and how will doing any of that improve the delivery of medical services for anyone???

Because all the administrative jobs fighting for months over payment are sacrosanct.

 

[keale]

Thank you.

I love hearing about how w/out obamacare people will not get health insurance/health care... and no one EVER realizes that EACH state has their own health care for the poor.

EVERY state has their own health care providers for the poor or those unable to afford insurance.

But lets keep on with the boogey man of "no health care" for so and so.

I love how people who probably have never had to apply for these programs think their easy to qualify for let me tell you its not. In California you need to be either disabled or a mother with kids or you just cant get health care. You can go to the ER but your creating other problems like huge medical bills. For the conservatives on one hand you want these people to be productive members of society but on the other do you think that forcing them into bankruptcy is the best way. The unpaid costs also get passed on the ones that can pay so your paying for it anyway.

 

[DavidJames]

Thank you.

I love hearing about how w/out obamacare people will not get health insurance/health care... and no one EVER realizes that EACH state has their own health care for the poor.

EVERY state has their own health care providers for the poor or those unable to afford insurance.

(bold is mine) Let's assume this is true. That means there are 50 different organizations, governing bodies, processes, rules, regulations etc. etc. etc. What an incredibly inefficient way of providing services.

How does capitalism handle such inefficiencies? Simple, the smaller companies are bought out or run out of business by larger more efficient companies. Imagine how much savings there would be with one organization, one set of rules and regulations, etc. etc. etc.

Thanks for showing how the current system is poorly conceived and grossly inefficient and we all would be better serviced by following the capitalist model of employing a larger more efficient system.

 

[stokes234]

Maybe we can't The mostly Euro nations that have NHC have much more homogeneous populations, than we do. This arguably permits for a degree of trust that allows these more extensive social programs to work without so much fraud and waste.

I took a quick scan and didn't find good fraud stats for EU country programs.

Trust is higher in countries with lower inequality:
http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/why/evidence/trust-and-community-life

The US does score higher than many european countries on trust though, and singapore scores particularly badly despite having a highly praised healthcare system.

 

[Travis]

Thing I learned in this thread: in countries with universal healthcare the doctors, nurses, technicians, administrators, and orderlies are all enslaved.

 

[theprestige]

How do you see that happening?

It's happening right now, isn't it? There'd be no need for an individual mandate if present costs were already covered by present revenues.

Elsewhere in this thread, Morrigan asserts that everyone is entitled to the highest possible quality of health care. I suspect that there is no level of present revenues sufficient to cover the present costs of that!

 

[eeyore1954]

Every country started from the current baseline before they were "there" so whats the problem?

Are there any good articles or studies on costs in countries before UHC and after.

 

[Travis]

It's happening right now, isn't it? There'd be no need for an individual mandate if present costs were already covered by present revenues.

Elsewhere in this thread, Morrigan asserts that everyone is entitled to the highest possible quality of health care. I suspect that there is no level of present revenues sufficient to cover the present costs of that!

I suspect that you are thinking of something entirely different. I see no reason that every person can't have the highest standard of medical care. Now this care need not happen in marble tiled rooms with a minstrel on duty for entertainment but I see no reason that everyone can't get what is considered the most appropriate treatment for whatever they are afflicted with.

I mean do you think that new cancer drugs should really only go to the rich?

 

[Peephole]

The main problem with US medical care costs is lack of competition.

Plenty of countries have no competition in their health care system and are still doing a lot better for a lot less money.

 

[balrog666]

Plenty of countries have no competition in their health care system and are still doing a lot better for a lot less money.

Sure they are!

 

[eeyore1954]

I love how people who probably have never had to apply for these programs think their easy to qualify for let me tell you its not. In California you need to be either disabled or a mother with kids or you just cant get health care. You can go to the ER but your creating other problems like huge medical bills. For the conservatives on one hand you want these people to be productive members of society but on the other do you think that forcing them into bankruptcy is the best way. The unpaid costs also get passed on the ones that can pay so your paying for it anyway.

You mean those democrats in CA don't care if people die because of lack of health care

 

[keale]

You mean those democrats in CA don't care if people die because of lack of health care

Yes the democrats that decided to actually try and do something to address the problem. Something the conservatives failed to do even when they had the chance and now their doing everything they can to repeal those changes.

 

[TruthersLie]

I love how people who probably have never had to apply for these programs think their easy to qualify for let me tell you its not.

I love it when people make ASSUMPTIONS about others. You just made an ASS out of U and MPTION. I had to use the programs I discussed for several years. Unemployed, low income, family with kids. Was it easy to do it? It wasn't harder than any other program. The hardest part was swallowing my pride and accepting the help. Don't make ASSUMPTIONS.

Each state has indigent health care programs that the poor qualify for if they take the time to fill out the forms.

In California you need to be either disabled or a mother with kids or you just cant get health care. You can go to the ER but your creating other problems like huge medical bills. For the conservatives on one hand you want these people to be productive members of society but on the other do you think that forcing them into bankruptcy is the best way. The unpaid costs also get passed on the ones that can pay so your paying for it anyway.

There are plenty of people who are not disabled and who are not single parents who qualify for california's indigent health care program. We can link to the requirements.

The only real issue is that there is a class of individuals who aren't able to qualify for the indigent health care because their jobs make too much, but who don't make enough to be able to afford insurance in their current jobs.

I've been there too.

If your job doesn't have health care, then CHANGE JOBS. (I have, and so have millions of other people). Minimum wage jobs usually qualify for state run health care.

 

[TruthersLie]

(bold is mine) Let's assume this is true. That means there are 50 different organizations, governing bodies, processes, rules, regulations etc. etc. etc. What an incredibly inefficient way of providing services.

How does capitalism handle such inefficiencies? Simple, the smaller companies are bought out or run out of business by larger more efficient companies. Imagine how much savings there would be with one organization, one set of rules and regulations, etc. etc. etc.

Thanks for showing how the current system is poorly conceived and grossly inefficient and we all would be better serviced by following the capitalist model of employing a larger more efficient system.

No need to ASSUME it is true. It is in FACT true.

You claim it is inefficient? Really? You want individuals who are 3000 miles away from you, making decisions that affect you?

You want a FEDERAL bureaucracy to create one set of rules and regulations? Do you know how inefficient the federal government is???

 

[keale]

I love it when people make ASSUMPTIONS about others. You just made an ASS out of U and MPTION. I had to use the programs I discussed for several years. Unemployed, low income, family with kids. Was it easy to do it? It wasn't harder than any other program. The hardest part was swallowing my pride and accepting the help. Don't make ASSUMPTIONS.

Each state has indigent health care programs that the poor qualify for if they take the time to fill out the forms.



There are plenty of people who are not disabled and who are not single parents who qualify for california's indigent health care program. We can link to the requirements.

The only real issue is that there is a class of individuals who aren't able to qualify for the indigent health care because their jobs make too much, but who don't make enough to be able to afford insurance in their current jobs.

I've been there too.

If your job doesn't have health care, then CHANGE JOBS. (I have, and so have millions of other people). Minimum wage jobs usually qualify for state run health care.

Where? Myself and many others have checked every resource I could think of and its not there. Show me

Change jobs? Utter non sense the idea that you can just change jobs if it was that easy we would have done it.

 

[TruthersLie]

Where? Myself and many others have checked every resource I could think of and its not there. Show me

Change jobs? Utter non sense the idea that you can just change jobs if it was that easy we would have done it.

Do a search in google for the state health insurance programs for your state. Go into a local state government office and ASK about who you need to talk to.

this would be a place to start.
http://www.dhcs.ca.gov/services/medi-cal/pages/default.aspx

Whether YOU qualify for their programs, that is beyond me.

If you don't qualify for programs where you live, then CHANGE WHERE YOU LIVE.

When people complain that they need a national health care they often ignore state and local options that are available.

Utter nonsense? Millions of americans have done JUST that. If your job doesn't offer insurance, then find a job that does. It is rather simple. If your field doesn't offer insurance in any job, maybe that should be a clue that you might need to change careers.

Don't make ASSUMPTIONS about people.

 

[BenBurch]

...

If you don't qualify for programs where you live, then CHANGE WHERE YOU LIVE.

...

Wow.

"America, love it, or leave it" is usually the last refuge of right wingers. Is that all you got?