When Your Problems are Economic, Legalize the Chronic!!

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There have been quite a few stories about this on different news outlets:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=not9lUpS0EA

another local (I think) stations report:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8XB1yX9wUs&eurl=http://www.rightpundits.com/?p=2955


and Glenn Beck (this guy's a doofus):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Quu5y3uY_A&feature=related


Here is another article from Time:
Could marijuana be the answer to the economic misery facing California? Democratic State Assembly member Tom Ammiano thinks so. Ammiano introduced legislation last month that would legalize pot and allow the state to regulate and tax its sale — a move that could mean billions for the cash-strapped state. Pot is, after all, California's biggest cash crop, responsible for $14 billion in annual sales, dwarfing the state's second largest agricultural commodity — milk and cream — which brings in $7.3 billion annually, according to the most recent USDA statistics. The state's tax collectors estimate the bill would bring in about $1.3 billion in much-needed revenue a year, offsetting some of the billions in service cuts and spending reductions outlined in the recently approved state budget.

I'm not familiar with all of California's economic woes, but I'm curious what people think about this whole proposal. Will it really make a significant impact? Is this long over due? What message does it send if pot were legalized to free up money, if any? The Daily Show did a really good segment on this also, but I couldn't find it.

I didn't see any threads on this yet but if someone beat me to the punch then I'm "prepared to be assimilated."
 
But would they still cost the same amount? Drugs are expensive because they're illegal, mostly.
 
I think the articles and videos all say that the tax would be equal to 1$ per joint and that's before mark up from distributors so I assume weed would get pretty pricey.

Thanks for saving my thread from the pits, BTW. I almost thought I'd changed my avatar for nuthin, hehehe:D
 
I think the articles and videos all say that the tax would be equal to 1$ per joint and that's before mark up from distributors so I assume weed would get pretty pricey.

Disclosure: I am totally opposed to drug prohibition.

I fear the politicians planning a $1 per joint tax have a gross misunderstanding of both weed and black markets.

First: weed is, well, a weed. Its not hard to grow. In fact, it can be found in all 50 states, either indoors or outdoors, despite nearly 100 years of prohibition. See also: dandelions, still thriving, despite decades of mass genocide via pesticides. Toss a handful of seeds into some dirt in Florida and you will have yourself a 3-foot tall plant in a few months, without grow lights or fertilizer or any proactive effort from you.

Second: black markets exist to fill gaps in supply and demand. Outlaw guns, guns are bought on the black market. Outlaw abortions, back-alley clinics appear. Outlaw drugs, and people grow and/or import them. And if the taxes on legal drugs make cost prohibitive compared to black market alternatives, the black markets will continue to thrive.

Assuming the goal is to decrease the use of weed, I would use a 3-prong approach.

1. Immediately release all non-violent drug offenders from jail, and use the money saved on corrections to bribe everyone needed to make step 2 and 3 happen

2. Completely legalize weed, and tax it on par with cigarettes (i.e. a tax in excess of 100% is not beyond reason, but $1 per smoke is just silly)

3. Offer land, equipment, cheap loans to aspiring pot farmers. Tell them to grow as much as they can. I would go so far as to subsidize it (i.e. corn) for 2 or 3 years.

How does this result in DECREASED use of weed?

Simple. Within a year, the weed market will be so flooded with product that the price will crash. Organized crime will lose interest quickly, and divert their resources to other, more lucrative trades.

At this point, usage will spike. Many will use weed for the first time out of curiosity. Most will be unimpressed. However, within a few years, when dirt-cheap weed can be found at every farmer's market in America (I mean out in the open, not just out of trunks as-is the custom now), the entire weed counter-culture will be all but obliterated. No longer will weed be "cool" or "edgy" or "hip" - its a mellow buzz for aging boomers and those of us too old to deal with hang-overs. Once the "cool" is gone, usage will plummet like a stone.

As with cigarettes, there will remain a group of children who continue to smoke, despite the health consequences. However, at the very least, a child of the future will need to convince the clerk at the local 7-11 that they are legal age, whereas dealers in the modern paradigm don't card at all. This is to say: although some use will remain despite all efforts to the contrary, I maintain the belief that legal distribution is the only realistic way to regulate consumption of mind-altering substances (i.e. prescription drugs, booze, cigs, whatever your poison might be).

The TL;DR version: don't just legalize pot, make it as plentiful as corn. I cannot stress the psychological component of "cool" or "counter-culture" enough. I sincerely believe that if corn were outlawed, it would be distributed illegally, and a die-hard group of "corn-heads" would propagate an entire sub culture around it, despite the fact that corn is a nice, but wholly unimpressive plant (just like pot).

When I was a kid, I never considered Mom's Old Milwalkee anything cool or sexy or interesting. Grandpa's scotch was equally gross. But I was always incredibly curious about Uncle Dave, who was always very happy, and always smelled funny, and would always "step outside" at family gatherings and return happier than ever. And the fact that no one could or would answer my questions directly only increased my curiosity. Weed was something "hip" and "cool", only for those "in the know". It was this, not a desire to get high, that led me to weed when I was a kid. And, for me, like most, the "sexy" phase ended very quickly.
 
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Yeash, I thought that 1$ per joint was funny. You can tell that this guy hasn't had to smoke schwag in those hard times, lol! I also heard someone make the point (probably jon stewart) that "oh well, all those years of prohibition were nothing personal, just business" and it seems pretty messed up that they would fall back on it now.
 
Yeash, I thought that 1$ per joint was funny. You can tell that this guy hasn't had to smoke schwag in those hard times, lol! I also heard someone make the point (probably jon stewart) that "oh well, all those years of prohibition were nothing personal, just business" and it seems pretty messed up that they would fall back on it now.

Does the $1 tax include rolling or not?
 
The trouble is, pot is made illegal at the federal level. DEA will still bust your butt, if I understand the issues correctly (and I may not). medical marijuana is legal here in CO, doesn't mean you won't get busted.
 
The trouble is, pot is made illegal at the federal level. DEA will still bust your butt, if I understand the issues correctly (and I may not). medical marijuana is legal here in CO, doesn't mean you won't get busted.

You are correct. The DEA (Federal) has raided several medical marijuana clinics, despite the fact that those clinics are legal under California law.

Insanity, pure and simple.
 
The trouble is, pot is made illegal at the federal level. DEA will still bust your butt, if I understand the issues correctly (and I may not). medical marijuana is legal here in CO, doesn't mean you won't get busted.

Sure, I'm just thinking the whole "monkey see monkey do" effect will happen and maybe that will cause federal change.
 
D No longer will weed be "cool" or "edgy" or "hip" - its a mellow buzz for aging boomers and those of us too old to deal with hang-overs. Once the "cool" is gone, usage will plummet like a stone.

I think you're overestimating the value of the "cool" factor in kids decision to smoke weed. Old people drinking it doesn't limit teens and young adults going out and getting trashed on crappy beer. And as it stands, most 20-somethings getting stoned at whatever replaced Phish concerts have parents who were getting stoned not long ago and possibly still do.

I think you're right that there would be a spike and then a gradual decrease, but I think it would be mostly due to people who don't enjoy it much. I don't know a single regular weed smoker who does it for their image. Folks who get wasted clubbing to look exciting or smoke to look tough, both legal substances used by their uncool parents, those I've met.

People I know who smoke weed with any regularity do so because they enjoy it, I don't think a change in public perception of "coolness" would have too strong an effect.
 
I'm not sure about this but pot could take away some of the drinking crowd. I would imagine that people would jump all over a chance to get jacked up all night and be totally fine for work (or a marathon) the next day. Never heard of a weed hang-over, or a "wang-over" I guess you'd call it.
 
You know, I wish some state, somewhere, would try this. Though it's probably arguable that experimenting on people is unethical or something. It's almost impossible to predict what would happen without at least one actual run-through. The law of unintended consequences can be a bummer, but it can work on either side of the argument.

Rolfe.
 
I always wonder if the drug dealers are the ones making sure drugs are kept illegal.

It's a conspiracy at best, but it's certainly plausible.

Companies who have a stronghold on any particular market are always making it harder to break into the market by lobbying for regulation and certifications and laws that make it harder to start a company making widgets.

It's like a total conspiracy, but it makes me think, if drug dealers aren't trying to keep drugs illegal as hard as they can, well then they certainly should be. It's definitely in their best interest.
 
I always wonder if the drug dealers are the ones making sure drugs are kept illegal.

It's a conspiracy at best, but it's certainly plausible.

Companies who have a stronghold on any particular market are always making it harder to break into the market by lobbying for regulation and certifications and laws that make it harder to start a company making widgets.

It's like a total conspiracy, but it makes me think, if drug dealers aren't trying to keep drugs illegal as hard as they can, well then they certainly should be. It's definitely in their best interest.

I seem to remember that in the late nineties organised crime actually took action in Europe to block any discussion about legalisation of drugs.

I have no idea where to look for evidence, but it was something along the lines of bribing and infiltration in the European parliament.

It made the papers in really small way, but had quite an impact on my opinion of the subject.

Since looking into the subject, I'm in favour if legalisation for most currently illegal drugs. Some of the most dangerous substances should remain illegal IMHO. Users can just go for the legal, less harmful alternatives.
 
I agree... I think the pitch should literally be economic chronic

Someone actually proposed the legalization question to president obama and he said no so fast you'd have thought george bush just asked for a cabinet position. I wonder if that response was simply reflex or if he is that passionate about it. We all know how he feels about cigarettes.

I think that legalization should be seriously addressed in Washington (not just because I am a user). If the revenue from taxes and the economy generated from sales aren't enough, it would also open up the hemp market which is another multi billion dollar industry, not to mention creating jobs in production, manufacturing, distribution, and sales. It seems like a no brainer to me.
 
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1. Immediately release all non-violent drug offenders from jail, and use the money saved on corrections to bribe everyone needed to make step 2 and 3 happen

This is another reason. We spend a ridiculous amount of money on corrections. The money spent on incarcerating drug offenders could be going to much more important things.
 
1. Immediately release all non-violent drug offenders from jail, and use the money saved on corrections to bribe everyone needed to make step 2 and 3 happen

2. Completely legalize weed, and tax it on par with cigarettes (i.e. a tax in excess of 100% is not beyond reason, but $1 per smoke is just silly)

3. Offer land, equipment, cheap loans to aspiring pot farmers. Tell them to grow as much as they can. I would go so far as to subsidize it (i.e. corn) for 2 or 3 years.

How does this result in DECREASED use of weed?

Simple. Within a year, the weed market will be so flooded with product that the price will crash. Organized crime will lose interest quickly, and divert their resources to other, more lucrative trades.

Except 1) you've created a perverse welfare state of dependent pot growers and 2) you've got a market flooded with cheap weed which lowers the price and the tax, which may increase consumption. You end up blowing money on welfare for farmers and losing tax dollars and not reducing consumption.

Government shouldn't be in the business in regulating peoples bodily intake - including weed.
 
....Government shouldn't be in the business in regulating peoples bodily intake - including weed.
There should be no federal laws against because the power is not enumerated in the Constitution, although an argument could be made in transporting it into the country or between states. I think there is nothing wrong in this scenario for state law to vary from none to harsh.
 
Subsidies?

Piffle.

Pot being legal means:
a new market for plants/seeds is created
a new market for finished product is created

Farms that didn't exist before will be created to yield marijuana (existing farms may convert as well).
The farms buy tractors, fertilizer, irrigation, seeds, etc.
Channels form for farms to sell their product. Trucks are bought to move product.
Factories open to process the product into cigarettes.
Brands are created, companies that create cigarettes are created.
Channels form for getting finished product into stores. Trucks are bought to move product.
Distributorships are created.
End product at gas stations, stores, smoke shops increase their own revenue.

It would be a huge growth sector since it would basically go from 0. That's what I call real stimulus. All those people now making money and getting hired would spend more money. It may not solve create a 10 year boom cycle, but every dollar counts.

I don't see any reason to tax it more than sales tax. Its just another product on the shelf.
 

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