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When Your Problems are Economic, Legalize the Chronic!!

I'm not saying that wouldn't be a place for it on the market, just that nobody would pay the the outrageous prices currently on the black market given how easy it is to grow. And even though not everybody could or would grow it, competition, as others pointed out would keep prices down.

And getting a few pounds ready to smoke would indeed take minimal effort considering how much it is worth on the black market now.
 
:confused: Never heard of it? Here's a simple google search.
That's hardly a curing process.

Really? You got any proof to back either of those statements up?
Let's just say I was once a student of Ed Rosenthal. :blush:

Your obvious lack of growing knowledge combined with statements like that lead me to believe that quality is something that is lost on you. I don't even consider ditch weed marijuana. Might as well roll up and smoke lawnmower cuttings.
You are clueless. I know the difference.

Go to Vancouver or Amsterdam, learn what real quality is, then return to this thread. You can actually get weed in Jamaica right now for like $10 to $20 an ounce. Of course, it's grown cheaply outside in someone's backyard (your preferred technique). You'd have to smoke half of that ounce to get high, and your throat would feel like sandpaper. Or you could pay $10 to $20 for a gram of the good, smoke half of it and get twice as high. And don't get me started on taste...
Once again, you are completely clueless. People grow indoors because there's less risk than in growing outdoors. It is easier to keep seedless that way, but unless there's male plants nearby your crop will remain seedless. And without the need for pots the plants grow much bigger. Indoor plants are limited in size by the root ball.

Grow Skunk #1 or Northern Lights #5 or any other quality cultivar and you'd be hard-pressed to screw it up so long as you pull the males. You certainly couldn't produce ditch weed with such fine seed stock.

Not that I'd know or anything.
Apparently you don't.
 
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Why do people want pot so strong that 2 hits, and you puke? Around here, outdoor grown pot is worth $250/oz
 
Define "quality product".
Phat sticky stinky diggety-dank.

Marijuana you can smoke and that will get you high is not imo "quality product" it's just fit for purpose. Cultivation of marijuana is no different to cultivation of any other type of plant. You need good genetics AND you need good cultivation skills to produce a good quality crop, how much is down to genetics and how much is down to know how is debateable, but I think your 95% genetics claim is way out.
I disagree, as does Ed Rosenthal. Have you ever read his books?

After you grow the plant there is still a good many ways you can ruin what you have grown, which all falls under the "know how" part. I would argue that you need just as much know how to produce good quality wine, or good quality tobacco as you do good quality marijuana.
Believe whatever you want, doesn't make it true. About the worst you could do post-harvest is let it get moldy. But you'd have to be a complete idiot to have that happen.

It doesn't take longer to *grow*, it takes longer to *produce*, and requires more resources.
The curing process takes time and resources and allows more time for law enforcement to discover the operation, hence most don't bother with it.
What you and Mike keep calling "curing" is simply the drying process. Curing agricultural products (including tobacco) usually involves chemical (which can be natural) additives. No such curing is done to marijuana.

Legal growers would compete on both price and on quality. The quality would rise dramatically and once people get used to the higher quality gear they won't want to return to the dross they presently buy for the most part.
You act like growing takes some sort of special skills, it doesn't.

Lazy people, people who can't afford the cost of setting up,
If you can't afford $200 in grow lights for indoor growing you certainly can't afford to pay $200/oz for pot, so this doesn't even make sense.

people who value their time more highly than a few hundred $ once in a while...
I suppose there would be a limited commercial market for the person who smokes once or twice a year. Probably not enough to attrract a multi-million $ corporation though.

Nothing is free. If you grow your own stuff then you are spending time that could be used for something else. If you can grow your own for "practically nothing" then you are not valuing your time very highly.
It doesn't take much time, certainly no more than any other garden does.
 
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What about people who live in a part of the world that doesn't have a great climate for it? Like say most of the UK.
Arguably the finest strains of marijuana ever developed come from Afghanistan. Not exactly a tropical climate there.
 
Why do people want pot so strong that 2 hits, and you puke? Around here, outdoor grown pot is worth $250/oz

It's extremely unusual to throw up from using weed. I've seen this a couple of times but in all cases it was non-smokers who took a hit from a joint that had weed + TOBACCO in it. A bit hit of tobacco can easily make a non-smoker puke. I also think it would be possible for someone who isn't a regular weed smoker to overdue it a bit and make get disoriented and throw up but I don't know that I've seen a solid case of this.
 
Well, some people like pot that tastes really good and yet don't want to smoke a lot of it. Buying a little bit of really nice pot is self-regulating kinda like someone who really likes chocolate buying a teeny box of the gourmet stuff.

I have to agree then that legalization wouldn't be a huge windfall, but it'd make a great hobbyist's product. I'm sure a few people would love to be able to grow even if it's not profitable; I have certainly run into people who love the stuff that much.

The main upside would of course be all the money we'd save on harassing and locking people up over the stuff. I wouldn't be surprised if legalizing it would be a huge blow to gang activity too: IMO the actual 'gateway' function of weed works on its young sellers. A young man can get started selling weed without even tweaking his conscience. The spiral from inner city weed seller to hard drug seller has got to be more like real life than the supposed spiral from pot smoker to hard drug user. "I'm already selling illegal drugs for a good profit, and my contact has harder stuff too, why not."

Funny enough I am pretty sure that legal weed would even bring a much needed element of non-criminal comraderie to some poor communities. People really do love to get together over some great weed, just like they like to get together over some cheap beer - only without the risk of ever having to deal with a mean drunk.
 
Well, some people like pot that tastes really good and yet don't want to smoke a lot of it. Buying a little bit of really nice pot is self-regulating kinda like someone who really likes chocolate buying a teeny box of the gourmet stuff.

I have to agree then that legalization wouldn't be a huge windfall, but it'd make a great hobbyist's product. I'm sure a few people would love to be able to grow even if it's not profitable; I have certainly run into people who love the stuff that much.

The main upside would of course be all the money we'd save on harassing and locking people up over the stuff. I wouldn't be surprised if legalizing it would be a huge blow to gang activity too: IMO the actual 'gateway' function of weed works on its young sellers. A young man can get started selling weed without even tweaking his conscience. The spiral from inner city weed seller to hard drug seller has got to be more like real life than the supposed spiral from pot smoker to hard drug user. "I'm already selling illegal drugs for a good profit, and my contact has harder stuff too, why not."

Funny enough I am pretty sure that legal weed would even bring a much needed element of non-criminal comraderie to some poor communities. People really do love to get together over some great weed, just like they like to get together over some cheap beer - only without the risk of ever having to deal with a mean drunk.
Another benefit is that all those billions of dollars spent on weed at its highly inflated black market price is all that money would find its way into legitimate areas of the economy, from mom & pop stores all the way up to WalMart and GM.
 
Phat sticky stinky diggety-dank.

thats a collection of colloquialisms for weed, on face value fat heavy sticky buds refer more to sativa strains. Got a better definition?

I disagree, as does Ed Rosenthal. Have you ever read his books?

Got a source for that? I've not read his books no, tho I am well aware of who he is.

What you and Mike keep calling "curing" is simply the drying process. Curing agricultural products (including tobacco) usually involves chemical (which can be natural) additives. No such curing is done to marijuana.

My brief google search on "tobacco curing" threw up a myriad of sites like this one which describes an air drying/aging process during which harmful/undesirable chemicals in the plant are changed into desirable ones.

From what I read adding chemicals to tobacco is done by tobacco companies
to improve the smoking properties and allow the use of various byproducts to both save wastage and to produce a consistent branded blend.

Most commerically used tobacco is described as "flue-cured brightleaf" and that means it's been hung in a large barn to age that has had the temperature and humidity controlled.

This is exactly the same process for marijuana (almost) the only difference being marijuana curing takes place in a dry atmosphere and not a humid one.

"Curing" = "Aging" more or less.

You act like growing takes some sort of special skills, it doesn't.

That depends on how you are growing, if you are growing indoors hydroponically you need some skills, outdoors less so. An experienced grower will get better yields, and a better quality of finished product than a noob will. So saying it takes no skills is wrong.

If you can't afford $200 in grow lights for indoor growing you certainly can't afford to pay $200/oz for pot, so this doesn't even make sense.

Why do you need to buy a whole ounce at a time?

I suppose there would be a limited commercial market for the person who smokes once or twice a year. Probably not enough to attrract a multi-million $ corporation though.

I am arguing that legalisation will mean many more people will smoke, or otherwise use marijuana, and that for many of the new "casual" users an ounce will last them months, and a great deal of people that only smoke say a joint or two a week, or make a batch of cookies once in a while aren't going to want or need to bother with growing their own.

That prices will start out close to what they are now and remain that way for a while before dropping, and that it's this period of time that will produce the "windfall" in tax revenues. I am taking "windfall" to mean a one time short term boost in tax revenues, not an on going long term large increase in tax revenue. That while there will be a windfall it won't be anything lke as large as most pro-legalisation people are claiming, or as small as you are claiming.

As far as climate goes a poorer climate results in lower yield, and if you were a hobbyist limited to only 3 plants at one time and only get one or two harvests a year you might not make enough to supply yourself a whole year.

Also almost every joint I've ever smoked has had about 70% tobacco content. It's the way joints are over here.
 
thats a collection of colloquialisms for weed, on face value fat heavy sticky buds refer more to sativa strains. Got a better definition?
What is your definition?

The best bud I have ever seen back when I was a pothead was homegrown, I knew the guy who grew it. Nothing ever grown in Vancouver or Amsterdam was better. Just as good probably, but better? Nope.

And I was a daily pot smoker for 15 years or so, smoked everything from seed-loaded Colombian schwag to skunk and kush. I know the difference.

Incidentally, the stuff my friend grew was his own cross between Skunk #1 and Northern Lights #5.

Got a source for that? I've not read his books no, tho I am well aware of who he is.
I just gave you the source... :confused:

My brief google search on "tobacco curing" threw up a myriad of sites like this one which describes an air drying/aging process during which harmful/undesirable chemicals in the plant are changed into desirable ones.

From what I read adding chemicals to tobacco is done by tobacco companies
to improve the smoking properties and allow the use of various byproducts to both save wastage and to produce a consistent branded blend.
All tobacco you buy in the store is cured with other substances such as maple syrup. The exception is the cigarettes advertised as being just pure tobacco, which most smokers think is crap.

Most commerically used tobacco is described as "flue-cured brightleaf" and that means it's been hung in a large barn to age that has had the temperature and humidity controlled.

This is exactly the same process for marijuana (almost) the only difference being marijuana curing takes place in a dry atmosphere and not a humid one.

"Curing" = "Aging" more or less.
And if you harvest a pound of buds you certainly won't be smoking it all in a day or so. Plenty of time for it to dry properly, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to stick it in a jar.

That depends on how you are growing, if you are growing indoors hydroponically you need some skills, outdoors less so. An experienced grower will get better yields, and a better quality of finished product than a noob will. So saying it takes no skills is wrong.
Maybe so, but a n00b will learn after a few crops.

I am arguing that legalisation will mean many more people will smoke, or otherwise use marijuana, and that for many of the new "casual" users an ounce will last them months, and a great deal of people that only smoke say a joint or two a week, or make a batch of cookies once in a while aren't going to want or need to bother with growing their own.
Exactly. Do you dispute my earlier post where I figured you could satisfy the entire US demand for marijuana with less than 1,000 acres of land? This is why it will never be a huge money-maker for anyone.

That prices will start out close to what they are now and remain that way for a while before dropping, and that it's this period of time that will produce the "windfall" in tax revenues. I am taking "windfall" to mean a one time short term boost in tax revenues, not an on going long term large increase in tax revenue. That while there will be a windfall it won't be anything lke as large as most pro-legalisation people are claiming, or as small as you are claiming.
I disagree. The price drop would be dramatic and instantaneous.

As far as climate goes a poorer climate results in lower yield, and if you were a hobbyist limited to only 3 plants at one time and only get one or two harvests a year you might not make enough to supply yourself a whole year.
You'll only get 1 harvest a year outdoors no matter what climate, because the plant will not flower until there is less than 12 hours of sunlight. Prior to taht it is all vegetative growth.

There are varieties taht will flower after a certain amount of time, but these aren't the high-quality plants we're talking about here.

Also almost every joint I've ever smoked has had about 70% tobacco content. It's the way joints are over here.
I've never seen that in the US. I was stunned the first time I was in Canada to see someone mixing tobacco with their pot, completely ruined the taste! I understand it's common in Europe also. Personally, I don't get it.
 
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What is your definition?

Carefully grown buds of good genetics grown in close to optimal conditions, that have been well manicured, thoroughly dried, and aged for a minimum of 3 months.

The grown in optimal conditions is important as imo plants grown to their fullest potential contain more cannibinoids, that can then develop givng enough aging into a better taste while smoking, and allow me to use less of them when I make joints/cookies/whatever my preferred method of ingestion happens to be.

Incidentally, the stuff my friend grew was his own cross between Skunk #1 and Northern Lights #5.

I liked 'C99' or 'flo'. I smoked daily for 10 years or so and quit a couple of years back.

I just gave you the source... :confused:

I meant as in which book?

Exactly. Do you dispute my earlier post where I figured you could satisfy the entire US demand for marijuana with less than 1,000 acres of land? This is why it will never be a huge money-maker for anyone.

I have no reason to dispute the 1000acres claim, but patents on varieties, and the market in goods made using cannabis mean that cannabis will doubtless be a big moneymaker for someone. Not to mention that a lot more scientific research would be done with cannabis that people just don't bother with presently that could yet discover some pharmecutical or some other as yet unknown spinoff.

I disagree. The price drop would be dramatic and instantaneous.

I can agree to disagree. I might well be wrong, if only it got put to the test.

I've never seen that in the US. I was stunned the first time I was in Canada to see someone mixing tobacco with their pot, completely ruined the taste! I understand it's common in Europe also. Personally, I don't get it.

Economics. When I first started smoking it was this horrible brown "resin" called 'soap bar' that cost £20/eighth. Weed was unheard of. You had to mix this with tobacco to smoke it. Then when weed started becoming more available people mixed that with tobacco as well, and got way higher cos dirtsoapbar doesn't really have a lot of THC in it. Good weed was £25/eighth (late 80's early 90's) and hard to come by so people stretched it as far as possible.

When availability rocketed in the mid/late 90's here it was frequently so badly grown that you couldn't smoke it pure if you tried to, wet etc etc, so it was mixed with tobacco to make it smokeable at all. Tradition dies hard.
 
The idea of putting tobacoo in a joint is gross. I hate tobacco and to me it just ruins the whole thing.
 
I think the articles and videos all say that the tax would be equal to 1$ per joint and that's before mark up from distributors so I assume weed would get pretty pricey.

Thanks for saving my thread from the pits, BTW. I almost thought I'd changed my avatar for nuthin, hehehe:D

I don't see taxes making marijuana more expensive than black market prices, for the simple reason that the black market will continue exist if it can undersell legal, taxed marijuana.

"Grow your own" is also an option if taxes are too high. Of course, governments may try to ban unlicensed cultivation, but it's questionable how effective this would be.
 
It's extremely unusual to throw up from using weed. I've seen this a couple of times but in all cases it was non-smokers who took a hit from a joint that had weed + TOBACCO in it. A bit hit of tobacco can easily make a non-smoker puke. I also think it would be possible for someone who isn't a regular weed smoker to overdue it a bit and make get disoriented and throw up but I don't know that I've seen a solid case of this.

I don't smoke much weed any more, but when I did, I don't recall ever getting nauseous from it, much less throwing up. Mixing pot with tobacco was pretty much unheard of in my circle. I do remember getting bad headaches on a few occasions from over-indulging in really strong weed.
 
I like what NYC Mayor Mike Bloomberg said when he first become mayor of the city..and not yet versed in the ways of not saying whatever pops in your head).
He was asked if he had ever smoked marijuana, and he said..
'You bet I did, and I enjoyed it."
 
I don't smoke much weed any more, but when I did, I don't recall ever getting nauseous from it, much less throwing up. Mixing pot with tobacco was pretty much unheard of in my circle. I do remember getting bad headaches on a few occasions from over-indulging in really strong weed.

Tobacco/pot is the common method in a lot of places in Europe.
 

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