What's your theory about 9/11?

Wait a minute ... You're using examples of optical illusions But none of this has anything at all to do with "cognitive illusions," whatever those are. Do you have any examples of "cognitive illusions" that are so pervasive they work on nearly 100% of people? .

I use the examole of optical illusions, to show how it works and that everybody falls in that trap. Again and again...

I used that to show the analogy to cognitive illusions. I knew, that you have problems to understand it.

So please let me go.

Here is a link, to the explanation of cognitive illusions. The same rules are working as in optical illusions.
Cognitive illusions give a great advantage to the people who trigger them by other people.
Politicans and salesman use them very often.

https://webspace.utexas.edu/emc597/fallacies.html

Hans
 
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So I will observe that Hans, like many other CTists was happy to discuss only those parts of his "theory" that were subjective, and avoided like the plague any discussion that might require objective evidence.

This is of course nothing new and is a common thread in 9/11 or even general CT Theorists, especially those that are based on pictre puzzles and squinting at one image to see another, regardless of what "ology", "ism" or "field of research" they claim to be from.

The foremost issue is significance. That is to say would the "message" should be identifiable as significant on it's own with out the benefit of hindsight. I can think of no reason a "warning" might be useful if it is only recognisable after the event being warned of. If we take as an example the stories of Wingdings or other Picture Fonts that were popular a while back when it was said that if you typed a vaguely 911 related number you would see a significant message. Most these messages were based on numbers that were only related if you went through some numerology along the lines of "Add 9 and one and one, then consider the number of the firetruck on the left of the screen and add that". Eventually you would end up with a tower and a skull, or a plane and a flame, or something else that strongly suggested the final result was chosen first then steps were taken backwards through the mental olympics to find a 9/11 connection. Given the time and inclination you could find any pictorial font, find some pictures you like to think represents any event you choose, then make the same kind of connections. Anybody typing the number 68 or whatever in 2000 would have had no reason what so ever to assume this meant that the twin towers would collapse in the near future.

Here we have seen somebody finding significant an image he saw in a film that if he squinted looked kind of like an obelisk on fire, and text that if you squinted reminded him personally of New York. The question is if somebody in the year 2000 had noticed an obelisk like image in the background would they think it was one of the twin towers, would they see the My Toan as being New York? Would they then tie this with 2001 to decipher the message? No. At best those who saw the "message" speculated it might be an Easter Egg, of the kind Kubrick had included in other films for those looking closely, a nod to 2001, a poetic detail. From his own mouth we know they were wrong and it was incidental.

Far too often the reason we do not get a defined methodology is that there is none. Somebody has seen the image they want, and has chosen supporting facts through confirmation bias. The differences between this and mirrored image, (or for that matter the kinky details in the stonework of my local cathedral, the Mad centrefold, or the Queen of Hearts seeming to stab the King of Hearts in the back when you place cards next to each other) are many, but start with the complete lack of marker to identify this as a significant detail. The painting discussed in previous posts, or the Mad centrefold have markers in the composition and framing that will identify a secondary image. (I can unfortunately only find one text pertaining to secret rooms being discovered by an academic scholar -one Prof. Henry Jones Junior- through codes in a painting, or rather a stained glass window and I doubt the text could be used as a weighty and serious methodology). "Codes" found in archetecture, like those in Masonic buildings, or pub signs, have specific tells to draw you to them. There are rules not for finding iconic meaning and social significance, but for understanding them. A code is useless without a key. And those who have genuine "message" (joke, inversion of the meaning, masonic symbol, politcal message, etc) know that somebody will need their rules to unlock it. If we were to assume the message was a warning, statement of intent or other prediction it would be strange to do it in a way that for all intents and purposes could not be shown to be a message with any conviction and could only be discovered long after the message became useless.

This is not a case of "Deckard was a Simulant" being a theory before the directors cut because of a few carefully placed clues, this is not a case of the Public Telephone in Fight Club having a "does not recieve incoming calls sign", or even "The Narrator in Stand by Me is bull-fibbing a story to cover up for the time he and his mates shot a guy and 'discovered' the body in the swamp back when he was Wesley Crusher", this is not even the hidden origin of Cloverfield hidden in the last few frames of the film, and certainly is not a clever "place mirror here" Easter Egg.

No my friends when we see a theory suggesting a film, poster, work of art or musical piece predicted the attack it is far more likely to be a case of Munchkin Suicide in the Wizard of Oz, or the "ghost" of Three Men and a Baby. It is a coincidental background image chosen with out reason or marker, one of thousands in the same film that could be chosen and given an equally wonderful and equally unsupportable significance. If they are even able to identify a detail. I am sure we can all remember when the Olympic ceremonies were supposed to be filled with occult messages from the New World Order, despite nobody being able to decide what was or was not a message.

Personally if I were to believe that entertainers had made an effort to pass on messages about the attack, I would be more willing to wonder about the far less subtle warning given in the pilot episode of the Three Gunmen spin off from the X-Files.
 
So I will observe that....


"A third aspect of cognitive illusions is that they appear involuntarily, that is, without specific instructions or deliberate will. They just happen. This is analogous to what has been found in research on suggestions: The suggested reaction manifests itself in the given situation without any conscious decision to do so. This does not mean that motivational factors or conscious meta-cognitions may not be influential too, but they are not the ultimate cause of the illusion itself. They only moderate its size. Another aspect is that persons who fell prey to a cognitive illusion usually don't realize what has happened: "Illusions mock our belief that what we perceive, remember, and know is in perfect accord with the state of the external world". That is, illusioned persons are still convinced they have judged, decided, or recalled something to the best of their knowledge."
....




TomTom, check your own mental situation, it seems to me, that you have cognitive illusions.

Use the link and get yourself free :D

https://webspace.utexas.edu/emc597/fallacies.html

Regards Hans
 
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Wait a minute ... You're using examples of optical illusions even though you're not claiming that any optical illusions took place on 9/11? How does that work?

It doesn't. The goal posts moved because one theory didn't work out. Now the illusions are going to be "cognitive". When that pans out there will be some new buzzword thrown in for good measure.

Regardless of if intended, or a product of losing track of their own logic it is not all that uncommon with CTs to fall foul of this kind of thinking. Giving the best possible benefit of the doubt to some of those I have chatted with the have either pulled at one thread of the jumble running through their theory and lost track of where they started, or they have tried to save face by not being to explain what they actually said, but felt a need to offer some kind of example that might suggest something even vaguely simaler might happen. A good example of this would be that the person can't prove thermite weapons were used, but can prove the US had weapons it classed as being secret before. Or they can't prove chem-trails but can prove Agent Orange was a thing, so "of course they are capable of this".

The problem is that the cognitive illusions most often cited are based on our evolutionary trait to see patterns in the random. To recognise faces in the moon, or pictures in clouds. They are very difficult to target at anybody, and no viable reason will be given as to how or why these were used to cover up, fake, or alter events in 9/11, a mass shooting, etc.

More importantly these are the same responses to random pattern and need for meaning that will have convinced a fair portion of CTers that there was some kind of conspiracy to begin with. Exactly as you pointed out before, there is an irony to somebody claiming superior knowledge of these, but failing to see they are the most likely reason that he thought he saw an omen of some kind in an old film.
 
I use the examole of optical illusions, to show how it works and that everybody falls in that trap. Again and again...

I used that to show the analogy to cognitive illusions. I knew, that you have problems to understand it.

So please let me go.

Here is a link, to the explanation of cognitive illusions. The same rules are working as in optical illusions.


First of all, optical illusions and cognitive manipulation operate in completely separate ways. It's like talking about how airplanes fly as an example of how trains run. Just because both move doesn't mean they move the same way.

Second of all, you're still focusing on whether some sort of mental trickery is even possible to pull off on any level. You have yet to show any evidence that 9/11 was anything other than what we perceived it to be.

In the optical illusion of, say, the two lines appearing different lengths, you can actually measure and show that the two lines are the same. You can move the two grey squares next to each other to show they're the same shade.

You have yet to identify any sort of cognitive trick that has been played let alone show what the reality of the situation was.

I concede people's perceptions and memory can be tricked. You are right about that. Now, what does any of it have to do with 9/11?
 
First of all, optical illusions and cognitive manipulation operate in completely separate ways. It's like talking about how airplanes fly as an example of how trains run. Just because both move doesn't mean they move the same way.

Second of all, you're still focusing on whether some sort of mental trickery is even possible to pull off on any level. You have yet to show any evidence that 9/11 was anything other than what we perceived it to be.

In the optical illusion of, say, the two lines appearing different lengths, you can actually measure and show that the two lines are the same. You can move the two grey squares next to each other to show they're the same shade.

You have yet to identify any sort of cognitive trick that has been played let alone show what the reality of the situation was.

I concede people's perceptions and memory can be tricked. You are right about that. Now, what does any of it have to do with 9/11?

It's evidence that HP's perception - connecting the movie to the unrelated events of 9/11 years later - has been tricked.
 
Iconological analysis of a Charles E. Martin New Yorker cartoon from the early 1960’s, ~40 years before 9/11, ~20 years before FMJ.

Planes will hit the New York Twin Towers, explode, and the Towers will catch on fire. A little girl can’t hold her arms above her for forty years and so the Towers will collapse.

cartooonicono_zps40389d5e.jpg


KATZ’S DELI is my favorite New York City Deli.
K = Kookaburra
A= Asp
T= Trout
Z = Zebra
S = Sloop
Therefore the city is New York.

Really a lot of comedians here.

Yes, it's funny because it is true.

It shows the difference between the subjective individual -subjective illusions; and the subjective universal -the objective illusions that occur to everyone.
It's comic because after all the interpretive errors, the Joker still believes the subjective opinion is objective fact.
 
No , I try to make something out of a little.

I am sure, that there was no letters on a house in the whole country which says "My Town".

I guess it is used by Kubrick, to place his hint.

What are you waiting for : that I present letters on Ruins, where you can read : "This is Kubrick : The WTC will burn in 2001 if you want to know who did it, look my film Eyes wide shut. This is a real message."

Yes, that would be an example of objective evidence.
Are there any others?
 
Bye, have fun at home.

There was no conversation. You did not read what I wrote.

In shorts words :

The towers in the final scene are not visible at any pic of the filmset. Only modern towers (Appartments or offices) could be detect longer away in the background and they are squared formed.

They could not be the twin slabs in the movie's final scene.

So the twin slabs of the final scene must be pasted into the background.
Why that ?

Answer : He needed them to give a hint to the WTC.

The burning SINGLE monolith gives no direct hint for the WTC (only a hint to a burning object in the year 2001).
The "My town" sequence gives no hint to the WTC. Only a hint to New York.
The final scene gives the hint to the WTC !

The burning monolithe says : burning tower in the year 2001
The my town sequense says : in my town New York
The final scene says: the World Trade Center

So in the last minutes of the movie come the message :

"In the year 2001, a burning tower in New York, its the WTC"

Give me an device that this is wrong, and I go home.


regards Hans

What a bunch of hogwash, like the rest of the SPAM you spread all over the Internet as the "joker".

It was MY TOAN - your fantasy ends due to poor vision, an illusions feeding your delusions. Your work is BS. Redo, and expected from a "joker". You announced you are a joker, and prove it. Your work is done. You had us at "joker".

You can say good bye, MY TOAN

you really need to see the eye doctor, and skip the golf, really go
 
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These last few pages show that Trutherism has become a parody of itself. Whouda thunkit?
 
What would you have done, if there are devices in my working theory ? Your 911 world would have collapsed like the towers. And then..? Your rescue was an A !


Whether Kubrick encoded a message in his films or not, what evidence do you have that 9/11 occurred in any way other than as commonly perceived?

All you are arguing is that it's possible to hide a subliminal message in a film. I agree that it is. Directors can and do hide very complex easter eggs in some of their shots.

Now, what evidence do you have that 9/11 occurred in any way other than as commonly perceived?
 
I am sorry to say this sshould make it very clear that any meaningful conversation in the future will be futile with Hans.
What would you have done, if there are devices in my working theory ?
Your 911 world would have collapsed like the towers. And then..?

Your rescue was an A !

So we were "rescued" from having our entire perception of 9/11 reconfigured because there was an A in MY TOAN.

Forget there was no methodology to the "theory".
Ignore that the "monolith" does not look like the WTC.
Ignore that there was never a reason to believe the message was "My Town" and "NY".
Ignore that there was never any objective evidence to support the claim.
Ignore that there was no way of showing an intended message instead of insignificant background detail.
Ignore that there is no reason to differentiate between this message and equally "clear" messages from Cookie Monster and Super Tramp, or this film and any other film that features a rectangle.
Ignore that if there had been something that might be shown to represent the WTC we only have the opinion of one person what it "reminds" him of, and no clear message describing the WTC attack.
Ignore the lack of explanation of how, why and when Kubrick became involved in the attacks, or how why and when he chose to seed this warning.

Ignore everything else and think "phew", because if that image that was NOT a W had turned out to be a W why... Hans doesn't know what we would do, even though the answer is "ask for objective evidence and clarifaction of the points already raised that you have failed to address".

If somebody thinks a sceptics preconceptions would tumble away because of such nonsense then he is talking from a place in which no civil discussion can be had.
 
... a mind filled with nonsense could make up lies about FMG and 911.
11111monlithofconcretewithrebar800.jpg

oops, rebar in my monolith.
1111mytoan800.jpg

A vision test failed...

1111naynotny800.jpg

NAY ?
1111naynotny800mirror.jpg

broken T fits where?

Over 12 years before FMJ, we did a skit at basic training, singing mickey mouse... SK stole our song...
 
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@ dafy

Your widescreen explanation about the monolithe is the best I ever heared. The sound coming out of it gives us headashes, as Kubrick pointed out.

You really nailed it.

Now, I think it is the best to move.

Thanks to you all.
 
Look, I know that Trutherism is in its terminal stages, but can we please stop feeding the troll?
 

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Look, I know that Trutherism is in its terminal stages, but can we please stop feeding the troll?


Slogans like this, we had in Germany 80 years befor.

"Do not buy from Jews" , which means : Do not feed them !

I thought, this is the land of the free, isn't it ?

Sadly regards Hans Peper
 
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