What's your theory about 9/11?

Since you ask it so politely here is 'my' theory:

http://how911wasdone.blogspot.com/

I spent 2 full months (Nov + Dec in 2008, that is 2 months in the 50% income tax range since 2008 was a very successful year) in writing it down with a little intellectual help from my friends here at JREF:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128473

The reception here was mildly positive :D

Enjoy.

Well at least you have a theory,crackpot,but a theory.
 
Well at least you have a theory,crackpot,but a theory.
Noted. Actually, I re-visited his site, and there is an interesting point there.

9/11 Investigator's site said:
Disclaimer: nobody is guilty until convicted by a court of law. This blog's intent is to stimulate thinking about 9/11 from a different angle than the official one. From day one the blame has been put at bin Laden and his people without real evidence. Today bin Laden is no longer persecuted for 9/11 according to the FBI website. The theory proposed here might be true or false or contain some truth. In the end it must be an official investigation that determines who is guilty and who is not. This blog is dedicated to Italian ex-president Cossiga who is the highest ranking statesman to date who has openly stated that it was the Mossad who has carried out the 9/11 attacks.
End of Disclaimer

So, when KSM is convicted in a court of law, he will be 'guilty' of his role in 9/11. That is helpful.
 
I only just decided to read some of this thread and thought I would offer my take on the events of 9/11

No doubt in my mind:
- 4 aircraft were hijacked by 19 Islamic Jihadists intent on using these machines in suicide missions to cause as much death and destruction as they could to symbols of American wealth and power
-the damage and death at the Pentagon was caused by the impact of Flight 77
-the death and destruction at the WTC complex was initiated by, and the direct consequence of, the impacts of Flights 11 and 175
- flight 93 crashed into a feild in Penn.

Some details I am not sure of:
-how much did the special fire codes that were in effect for the PANYNJ affect the spread of the tower fires?
-in WTC 7 NIST proposes that expansion caused the girder to be pushed off its seats leading to the initial collapse, did NIST examine steel contraction as a possible cause for this?
- pre-9/11 exactly who knew what and if all this intel could have been put together from all various agencies would the attack have been intercepted?
 
- pre-9/11 exactly who knew what and if all this intel could have been put together from all various agencies would the attack have been intercepted?

I am sure there are plenty of people who would like a public enquiry into how the various agencies collect and share information.:)

It have been argued that one of the major reasons for secrecy is to hide incompetence, I am sure there is some truth to it.
 
I am sure there are plenty of people who would like a public enquiry into how the various agencies collect and share information.:)

It have been argued that one of the major reasons for secrecy is to hide incompetence, I am sure there is some truth to it.

There was a famous memo, and the "Gorelick Wall" was erected between agencies, if memory serves. I think that, after serving on the 9/11 Commission, she got REALLY rich on wall street while Fannie Mae lost zillions. She's probably due to be in the Obama administration now. Plus ça change...
 
Cross-posted from here for convenience and on-topic.

bardamu said:
I believe the two aircraft existed but I don't know what happened to them on 9/11. I believe Al Qaeda exists but was set up by western intelligence agencies and still receives orders from them. I don't know if the alleged hijackers existed or not but if they did they were set up. Video footage was faked using cgi cartoon planes.

<snip>
I can give you a quick resume of what I do know after examining the evidence, but I'm not prepared to fill the gaps in by speculating on things I don't know.

1. There were explosions in both towers.
2. A plane was faked live on TV and later more fake plane footage was shown on TV.
3. Several eyewitnesses lied about seeing planes and many of these were employed by the TV companies or had close ties with the media.
4. Three buildings were demolished.
5. TV coverage of the day's events was guided by counter-terrorism analysts in the studios, such as John Miller, Jerome Hauer, Steven Simon and James Rubin, who laid down the foundations for the official conspiracy theory involving Islamic suicide pilots.
 
No Planers are the most amusing people.

Indeed. IMO it takes a very special kind of crazy to "investigate" 911 and come to the conclusion that the plane was faked on live TV and the eye witnesses are lying. Not just the garden-variety special crazy, either, but a special, special kind of crazy.
 
I am sure there are plenty of people who would like a public enquiry into how the various agencies collect and share information.:)

It have been argued that one of the major reasons for secrecy is to hide incompetence, I am sure there is some truth to it.

Yup. And that still won't change the WHO and Why of the perps one bit. Without the hijackers, there would be no 9/11.
 
Indeed. IMO it takes a very special kind of crazy to "investigate" 911 and come to the conclusion that the plane was faked on live TV and the eye witnesses are lying. Not just the garden-variety special crazy, either, but a special, special kind of crazy.


Correctamumdo. Even Judy Wood's "Death Ray From Space" theory is not quite as insane as the No Plane Theory.
 
Correctamumdo. Even Judy Wood's "Death Ray From Space" theory is not quite as insane as the No Plane Theory.

I wouldn't be so sure. Haven't you read her 'Hurricane Erin' theory? She's pretty far out there.
 
Judge for yourself
inside 9/11:war on america part 10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Do4G2bjVzQ4

inside 9/11:war on america part 11
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuau_dFmV2g

Yes, I've seen that. It does give an outline of what was known but is short on details.

'The system was blinking red' is all fine and dandy but what do you do unless you had actual concrete info on the where, when, how and who concerning these attacks?

It is possible that all of this was known, that someone knew 'something' was planned for the east coast, someone else knew 'something' was planned for Sept 11, and others expected hijackings while still others were highly suspicious of several or all of the 19 AND yet these people did not share or had no way to share, their information with each other.

If a dozen people have pieces of a puzzle but are unaware of each other then the puzzle will not get put together.

BUT....... it is just possible that someone, somewhere, who was higher up in the intel chain, did see all of this and knew Atta was likely planning a hijacking with several others, of multiple aircraft on the eastern seaboard and that these would be suicide missions. Did this person (or office) not react in time and for Nat Security reasons we have not been told they were very close to stopping this? Did this person (or office) simply hesitate or was it put together too late to get the wheels going? ,,,,,,,,, or with a cynical, callous motivation were the attacks simply not stopped?

the last is of course the LIHOP senario and it can also break down in a couple of directions.

1)Perhaps some pieces of the puzzle were still missing. Say they knew that Hanjour and his crew were going to carry out a hijacking but they did not know it would be a suicide mission nor that there were multiple planes involved. The senario now is that this was allowed, let the (ie single) hijacking occur then counter it when they make demands and land elsewhere. Maybe even assume that a few hostages would be killed. This alone would garner action against Al-Qada by the administration and we know that many in the intel feild were frustrated with both Clinton's and Bush's lack of action.

Then on the day of the hijacking this group watches in horror to see that they had allowed not one run-of-the-mill hijacking but 4 suicide mission hijackings.
The CYA would begin immediatly.

I have never seen a TM member offer the above senario. Why? Because it does not demonize their poltical enemies enough for their satisfaction.

2) the senario favoured by a few not quite so crazy TM members, that the entire plan was known at very high levels and still allowed to occur.

There are several things that argue against '2' for sure.
First of all Bush's reaction is one of complete shock, not that of a person waiting for these events to play out at which time he will jump to action, take command and be the hero President.
Second there is the report that Condi Rice told her friend in California not to fly that morning. If true then she obviously did not know the whole plan as all the planes were hijacked from eastern cities. Her friend was in the west and likely would not even take off until later in the day eastern time well after the hijackings had taken place.
Third, Don Rumsfeld was in his office at the Pentagon and I for one do not see him as the type to set himself up for possible martyrdom.
So if the entire operation was known in advance by someone then it was not Bush, Rummy or Rice.

For the first senario though, there are a few tantilizing yet surely inconclusive clues to support it, but its all circumstantial.
Intel agencies were frustrated with lack of action on Islamic threats.
Rice appears to have known there was the possibility of hijackings specifically on Sept 11 somewhere in the USA.
Much of the intel about the hijackers was broadcast to the public before the end of the day on Sept 11 which is pretty quick.

I can see how a conspiratorially minded person could view all of this circumstantial evidence and jump to the conclusion that the attacks were alowed to occur.
 
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Indeed. IMO it takes a very special kind of crazy to "investigate" 911 and come to the conclusion that the plane was faked on live TV and the eye witnesses are lying. Not just the garden-variety special crazy, either, but a special, special kind of crazy.

Completely unrelated to anything in this thread, except for your avatar:

NSFW

Though, I suppose you could say that it relates to no-planers...

 
Yes, I've seen that. It does give an outline of what was known but is short on details.

'The system was blinking red' is all fine and dandy but what do you do unless you had actual concrete info on the where, when, how and who concerning these attacks?

It is possible that all of this was known, that someone knew 'something' was planned for the east coast, someone else knew 'something' was planned for Sept 11, and others expected hijackings while still others were highly suspicious of several or all of the 19 AND yet these people did not share or had no way to share, their information with each other.

If a dozen people have pieces of a puzzle but are unaware of each other then the puzzle will not get put together.

BUT....... it is just possible that someone, somewhere, who was higher up in the intel chain, did see all of this and knew Atta was likely planning a hijacking with several others, of multiple aircraft on the eastern seaboard and that these would be suicide missions. Did this person (or office) not react in time and for Nat Security reasons we have not been told they were very close to stopping this? Did this person (or office) simply hesitate or was it put together too late to get the wheels going? ,,,,,,,,, or with a cynical, callous motivation were the attacks simply not stopped?

the last is of course the LIHOP senario and it can also break down in a couple of directions.

1)Perhaps some pieces of the puzzle were still missing. Say they knew that Hanjour and his crew were going to carry out a hijacking but they did not know it would be a suicide mission nor that there were multiple planes involved. The senario now is that this was allowed, let the (ie single) hijacking occur then counter it when they make demands and land elsewhere. Maybe even assume that a few hostages would be killed. This alone would garner action against Al-Qada by the administration and we know that many in the intel feild were frustrated with both Clinton's and Bush's lack of action.

Then on the day of the hijacking this group watches in horror to see that they had allowed not one run-of-the-mill hijacking but 4 suicide mission hijackings.
The CYA would begin immediatly.

I have never seen a TM member offer the above senario. Why? Because it does not demonize their poltical enemies enough for their satisfaction.

2) the senario favoured by a few not quite so crazy TM members, that the entire plan was known at very high levels and still allowed to occur.

There are several things that argue against '2' for sure.
First of all Bush's reaction is one of complete shock, not that of a person waiting for these events to play out at which time he will jump to action, take command and be the hero President.
Second there is the report that Condi Rice told her friend in California not to fly that morning. If true then she obviously did not know the whole plan as all the planes were hijacked from eastern cities. Her friend was in the west and likely would not even take off until later in the day eastern time well after the hijackings had taken place.
Third, Don Rumsfeld was in his office at the Pentagon and I for one do not see him as the type to set himself up for possible martyrdom.
So if the entire operation was known in advance by someone then it was not Bush, Rummy or Rice.

For the first senario though, there are a few tantilizing yet surely inconclusive clues to support it, but its all circumstantial.
Intel agencies were frustrated with lack of action on Islamic threats.
Rice appears to have known there was the possibility of hijackings specifically on Sept 11 somewhere in the USA.
Much of the intel about the hijackers was broadcast to the public before the end of the day on Sept 11 which is pretty quick.

I can see how a conspiratorially minded person could view all of this circumstantial evidence and jump to the conclusion that the attacks were alowed to occur.

The suicide bombings of the kobar towers,african us enbassies and the uss cole showed al queda has lunatics willing to die for their twisted beliefs.

The algerian terrorist hijacking of flight 8969, an air france a300,on 24 december 1994, was to be used as a missile and flown into the Eiffel tower.

This suicide mission was thwarted when the plane was stormed by french commandos at Marsiells.

So 6 years before 9-11-2001 islamic terrorists were ready to use jetliners as flying bombs and hit civilan targets this should have set off alarm bells at boeing,airbus amd other aircraft manufacturers to make their planes hijack proof.they could consult EL AL israels airline which has only ever had one plane successfully hijacked: EL AL flight 426 on 7-23-68 41 years ago!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Al

president bush ignored that cia memo warning of "bin laden determined to strike in the us" on august 6 2001 which mentions hijackings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuau_dFmV2g

Even if he deployed armed troops to stand guard at airports and warned the public about possible hijackings this would have made the 911 hijackers very insecure and maybe fail their missions.
 
I agree with the findings of the 9/11 Commission, and the additional information I have read like Lawrence Wright's excellent The Looming Tower. Al Qaeda planned, financed and conducted a terrorist attack on the United States on September 11, 2001, by simultaneously hijacking 4 aircraft and crashing them into 3 out of 4 of their targets. The 4th jet was crashed to the ground once the passengers figured out what was going on. The World Trade Center 1 & 2 suffered structural damage due to plane impact and fires and collapsed. WTC 7 suffered damage from being struck by WTC debris and fire and collapsed.

Here is a thread where those who believe alternative explanations can post their best theory. Post your theory as to who / what / when / how the attacks of 11-September, 2001 were planned, financed and executed.

PLEASE DO NOT JUST 'ASK QUESTIONS' IN THIS THREAD. Post your theory, or the alternative theory that you find most credible.

My theory is that debunkers don't really know what happened on 9/11 anymore than anyone else. They just pretend to. How? With stundies, laughing dogs, cats, trolls, and personal attacks. Always asking someone else for a theory instead of just validating what they claim to know is the truth. The truth about a story that when pressed the debunker doesn't really even seem to know much about.
 
My theory is that debunkers don't really know what happened on 9/11 anymore than anyone else. They just pretend to. How? With stundies, laughing dogs, cats, trolls, and personal attacks. Always asking someone else for a theory instead of just validating what they claim to know is the truth. The truth about a story that when pressed the debunker doesn't really even seem to know much about.
Do you have a hypothesis?
 

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