What's your theory about 9/11?

[cyclonic]

No offense, but you appear to be working off three year old intelligence yourself. The memo has been released. You can doubt it all you want, but I have read it.

Here's a link to it.

It was declassified and approved for release on 10 April, 2004.

OK, we will agree to disagree, you believe the CIA gives a US president intelligence 3 years old and i wont.

cheers

 

[jaydeehess]

Although the black boxes were immolated, the Tourist Guy's friend's cheapie camera survived.

I hope you just forgot to add the smilie.

 

[jaydeehess]

The Washington Monument is actually taller, but that just would help the terrorists find the Capitol. It's due East of that big pointy thing.

There is something else to mention. Simply by reading the newspapers, the terrorists would also have known that both houses of Congress were in session on 9/11. A much better target than the White House on a day the President was known to be out of town.

I had forgotten the name of that obelisk (which president was it named for.) Being a Canuck, its just not that important to me.

Yes, it would serve the same use as the sights on a long gun.

Truthers such as bill smith work backwards from a point of speculation, 'WTC 7 was rigged for demolition just like the towers', and deduce that flt 93 was the plane that was supposed to hit WTC 7.

I prefer to look at the facts concerning the three succesful attacks and compare the characteristics of those targets and then look about for other potential targets that fit this profile.

While WTC 7 certainly is large at 47 floors and it is somewhat distinctive with its rhomboid shape, it fails utterly at being a world renowned symbol of American power and is just another very tall building in a city with many very tall buildings and so not all that distinctive in its enviroment..

The Whitehouse is at the tip-top of the list of world renowned symbols of power but fails at being particularily easy to find from the air at a few hundred MPH.
The Capitol is second on the list of symbolic power and could only be easier to see from the air if they put a giant flashing neon sign on top of the dome that says, 'you want to be here'.

 

[9/11 Chewy Defense]

Apparently, the desert cave-dwelling hijackers used to crash planes into womp-rats in Beggar's Canyon back home. And they're not much bigger than two meters.

Respectfully,
Myriad

I just love those kinds of punch lines!

Thanks Myriad!

 

[Mancman]

Regarding navigation, I was just using the free Flightgear Simulator, flew east from Boston until I hit the Hudson, followed it south, and was over Manhattan in no time at all. Remarkably easy, first attempt. And the hijackers surely practised like this hundreds of times.

 

[BigAl]

Regarding navigation, I was just using the free Flightgear Simulator, flew east from Boston until I hit the Hudson, followed it south, and was over Manhattan in no time at all. Remarkably easy, first attempt. And the hijackers surely practised like this hundreds of times.

And I believe it's not for nothing that the picked September for it's predictably clear weather and Tuesday the 11th was as clear in the East as it gets.

 

[I Ratant]

There was an add-on for Microsoft Flight Simulator for awhile.

 

[ImANiceGuy]

What does "LIHOP" theory, whatever that is say about the literal tons of evidence and thousands of eyewitnesses that support the 4 jets causing all the death and destruction on 9/11 and the fat evidence trail that shows that 19 Islamist Arabs hijacked those planes?

You need help with comma placement.

 

[gumboot]

Speculation?

why would the french prime minister storm the plane from the outset when
"Prior to 9/11 your odds of surviving an airline hijacking were actually pretty good"

You'd have to ask the French Prime Minister that. The French wanted to storm the aircraft immediately, but the Algerian government wouldn't let them into the country. Then the French encouraged the Algerian government to let the plane take off, so it would come into French territory, where the French could resolve it. On the night of December 24th France deployed its GIGN to Majorca, Spain - as close as they could get without looking to be interfering - on an identical airline, allowing the operatives to familiarise themselves with the aircraft in preparation for an assault. All of this happened before there were any rumours of a suicide attack.

the order was given while the plane was in transit to marsielle after recieving reliable intelligence about the hijackers.

The French Government didn't realistically consider the firebomb plot until after the flight had landed on the 26th, when the hijackers asked for a full fuel load. It was another couple of hours after that, that the French Government first heard of the supposed firebomb plot. They had already made a decision to storm the aircraft on the 24th.

lets hear from the french prime minister and the hostages that survived to what happened on flight 8969

The hijackers let 63 passengers leave, and would have let more go, but many of the Algerian passengers refused to get off the plane. In the very programme you provided (The Killing Machine) the survivors talk of Yahia's reluctance to kill a fourth hostage, and his continued delaying of the execution - instead choosing to fire randomly outside the aircraft and at the control tower.

 

[gumboot]

OK, we will agree to disagree, you believe the CIA gives a US president intelligence 3 years old and i wont.

cheers

I think they give the President intelligence as up to date as they can. They had nothing new on Bin Laden's intentions, so they were just updating. Basically what the memo is actually saying is:

"Three years ago Bin Laden made it clear he intended to attack inside the USA, and we have no reason to think anything has changed in that regard, so we're still keeping a close eye on Al Qaeda activity".

If you think there's anything new and important in that memo point it out.

 

[cyclonic]

You'd have to ask the French Prime Minister that. The French wanted to storm the aircraft immediately, but the Algerian government wouldn't let them into the country. Then the French encouraged the Algerian government to let the plane take off, so it would come into French territory, where the French could resolve it. On the night of December 24th France deployed its GIGN to Majorca, Spain - as close as they could get without looking to be interfering - on an identical airline, allowing the operatives to familiarise themselves with the aircraft in preparation for an assault. All of this happened before there were any rumours of a suicide attack.




The French Government didn't realistically consider the firebomb plot until after the flight had landed on the 26th, when the hijackers asked for a full fuel load. It was another couple of hours after that, that the French Government first heard of the supposed firebomb plot. They had already made a decision to storm the aircraft on the 24th.




The hijackers let 63 passengers leave, and would have let more go, but many of the Algerian passengers refused to get off the plane. In the very programme you provided (The Killing Machine) the survivors talk of Yahia's reluctance to kill a fourth hostage, and his continued delaying of the execution - instead choosing to fire randomly outside the aircraft and at the control tower.

fRENCH INTERIOR MINISTER "while the plane was flying toward france, we recieved other information that according to which the terrorists planned to use the plane to carry out an attack on paris, the information was credible and we took it seriously, so the decision was made no matter what, the plane would not take-off from marsielle, no matter how high the price may be, the plane will not take-off"

Before they made this decision it was an option.

"instead choosing to fire randomly outside the aircraft and at the control tower"


Lucky they didn't blow up another plane or kill anyone in the control tower.

 

[cyclonic]

I think they give the President intelligence as up to date as they can. They had nothing new on Bin Laden's intentions, so they were just updating. Basically what the memo is actually saying is:

"Three years ago Bin Laden made it clear he intended to attack inside the USA, and we have no reason to think anything has changed in that regard, so we're still keeping a close eye on Al Qaeda activity".

If you think there's anything new and important in that memo point it out.

I personally don't believe that information between the CIA and the president is made public.
why show the enemy how your intelligence works?

 

[Bluesky]

Well working back from the Controlled Demolition theory I think that the ae911truth theory has to go something like this:

Planning probably need a min of a year to plan and impliment.
Al Queda directly or indirectly contact Bush and Cheney just after they win election to coordinate attack.
US priority is to develop new thermite weapon that melts thicK steel by pouring super-hot liquid onto it.
Develop explosives that can withstand extreme temperatures and that neither flash or make a noise when they explode.
Let elevator maintenance contract ..planning goes back more than a year..so perhaps Clinton was also involved.
Start detail demo analysis... to ensure that North Tower will fall on WTC 7 since this is the opposite direction from which the tower will be hit.
Also need to start coordination to make sure main explosives are located at plane impact levels

Access. Predemolition and weakening work
Get access to about 30% of the core columns thro the elevator maintenance....
Access to other core columns and the facade columns by crawling through false ceiling and not putting your foot thro the acoustic ceiling (according to Gage)
Remove fire protection and burn holes in columns, and weld on charges, without setting of fire alarms, without creating any dust and without disturbing people working late and without damaging acoustic ceiling. (several hundred tons of explosive according to gage)

Implimentation
Coordinate safe passage thro security for the plane team and crash planes into towers at level where main explosives are located.
Wait until most people escape and then without warning demolish the South Tower which was the second tower to be hit, using silent, flashless nanothermite explosives at the impact level.
Wait until more people escape from the North tower then without warning demolish the second tower using the same method, making sure that debris falls onto WTC7.
Make sure that NYFD does not fight WTC& fire all day, because the demo team does not want to go home early.
Phone Larry Silverstein, the BBC and a large group of firemen to warn them that you are still going to demolish WTC7.. ( ooops was that their mistake or their plan, its difficult to imagine either. )
Demolish WTC7 .

Cover-up and aftermath
So no one owns up to any involvement in the planning and preparation, and no one that was in the building reports any suspicious activity going on associated with 9/11. The cover up on site was more difficult and the cover-up team would need to bribe the thousands of engineers, contractors, police, firemen, and CIA who worked at the WTC site on the recovery and cleanup to make sure that nobody noticed or reported anything unusual.
Perhaps they vetted all the workers to ensure that only conspiracy minded people worked on the search and recovery. The demo team continued to "explode" thermite in the pile, for weeks after the initial explosion, as the "red-hot steel is proof of thermite". But they made sure this thermite never actually cut steel in anything but expected locations.

Each step of this is stupid and ridiculous, but is a direct requirement of controlled demolition. This helps to explain why the ae911truth always prefer to make vague accusations and do not try and put together their mad theory.

 

[I Ratant]

Well working back from the Controlled Demolition theory I think that the ae911truth theory has to go something like this:

Planning ...

Access....

Implementation ...

Cover-up and aftermath ...

.
It's so simple when all the necessary steps are laid out.

 

[jaydeehess]

I appreciate your thorough and civil response. For the sake of this discussion, and really nothing else, I would suggest that LIHOP is a theory which competes with the official story, and deserves equal investigative treatment.

What does "LIHOP" theory, whatever that is say about the literal tons of evidence and thousands of eyewitnesses that support the 4 jets causing all the death and destruction on 9/11 and the fat evidence trail that shows that 19 Islamist Arabs hijacked those planes?

RI, as usual, is wrong.

Of course a LIHOP (Let It Happen On Purpose) senario simply includes the already accepted so-called official story.
It can hardly be said to 'compete' with the idea that 19 Islamic Fundementalist Juhadists hijacked 4 aircraft and used them as suicide weapons BECAUSE that is exactly what athe LIHOP senario calls for.

The sole and only difference would be one of ommission as far as the commonly accepted history of 9/11. That is to say that some element of the gov't machinery of the USA knew full well what was about to occur and did nothing to stop it.

 

[1stClassAlan]

Crash a fuel laden heavy jet into any occupied UK office building in a way that destroys the pipes for the sprinkler system and the fire would also spread quickly.

Hi Kestrel,

I'm sorry if you took my comment to be knocking the good old U.S. of A. - I am actually quite a Yankeephile ( and if you need further assurance of this fact - prefer American Football far more than Soccer! )

I of course agree with you concerning the damage of aircraft collision followed by incendary jet fuel firing large areas of both buildings in conflagrations completely unimagined by any building code - but........ the fires spread upwards to unaffected floors very quickly and I think that this can be laid firmly at the door of "light" construction - 4" thick floor pans will not hold an intense fire let alone when pierced by numerous ducts and cableways, staircases and elevator shafts. I understand that both WTC towers were built without sprinklers and that these were being retrofitted floor by floor in an upgrading that stared after the 1993 bombing and was still not completed by 911. I also understand that the old style construction such as evident in the Empire State building has far more compartmentalisation floor to floor and double insulating concrete and mortared brickwork to all steelwork - allowing it to survive the B25 strike in much better shape.

Many of the thirty year old buildings that I've inspected in this country fail even the most basic fire tests - they have been subject to unlicensed alterations ( pipes and cables pushed through cut-outs in fire protection ) tenants exceeding the safe storeage rate for combustibles etc. Floor slabs that abut steelwork ( similar to WTC spandrels ) often have a gap greater than ones fingers and are rarely checked.

However, as floor slabs of most highrise were limited to traditional poured reinforced concrete in my time - they stood fire far better and I say this after experience in refitting two buildings in which at least one floor was "cooked" by having fire on top aswel as underneath. I understand that many of our newer buildings such as Canary Wharf Tower are of lightweight steel construction similar to U.S. developments - they all look fine and futuristic - until they catch fire!

 

[Without Rights]

They mostly just did.


Perhaps you meant to say, "resident deniers".

If the standard is that you only focus skepticism on all things non-government then I guess I'm not a skeptic. Focusing skepticism toward government in anyway gets you grouped in with others whether you agree with them or not by labeling "truther" and "denier". Then the attack dogs with nothing to say come barking insults.

At the same time, people who say they trust government can make the most ridiculous claims and it is ignored. Never question the herd. That should be a JREF slogan.

There are a few people I've come across that actually argue intelligible, I'm sure there are plenty in areas of JREF that I haven't come across also, so pardon the blanket statement.

 

[carlitos]

If the standard is that you only focus skepticism on all things non-government then I guess I'm not a skeptic. Focusing skepticism toward government in anyway gets you grouped in with others whether you agree with them or not by labeling "truther" and "denier". Then the attack dogs with nothing to say come barking insults.

At the same time, people who say they trust government can make the most ridiculous claims and it is ignored. Never question the herd. That should be a JREF slogan.

Hi there, Without Rights! You seem to have missed the original post in this thread, so here is the important part. I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Here is a thread where those who believe alternative explanations can post their best theory. Post your theory as to who / what / when / how the attacks of 11-September, 2001 were planned, financed and executed.

PLEASE DO NOT JUST 'ASK QUESTIONS' IN THIS THREAD. Post your theory, or the alternative theory that you find most credible.

 

[aggle-rithm]

You need help with comma placement.

I see...you can't answer the question, so you've decided to wow us with your editing skills.

Very nice.

 

[carlitos]

This could almost be a stundie:

There are a few people I've come across that actually argue intelligible