What's Wrong With Saul Alinsky?

[mhaze]

So. Based on my reading of the last day and a half worth of enigmatic responses by mhaze, the confusion remains.

I will give him credit on trolling though. Evading an up or down answer for hundreds of posts is a pretty masterful exhibition of that skill.

Well, let me translate that. If I may.

It's the day of the internet, and I can instantly download ebooks or get them down the street at the bookstore, or buy them for a buck or two off ebay and they arrive in two days. It's so nice that I can get much of Alinsky's work off of the Internet, or get the books he wrote in a couple of days. But I'm really lazy, so I just expect some guy on an internet forum to answer all my questions for me. That works pretty well. But yeah, every now and then one of them doesn't cooperate, even when we insult him and call him a liar and stoopid. Geez, what to do?

It's just not fair.

He's a "have (info)" and we da "have not (info)". And I knows Alinsky dude said we Have Nots gets to take stuff from the Haves. So what's with this, it crazy. He won't tell us all those details about what Alinsky said about how to take away his stuff. But he should it ain't fair. And we needs to knows that stuff. Why won't he tell us all that stuff so then we knows it? What, he expect us to work or something? Like, read stuff or pick up books and open them or move fingers on keyboards? Hell, we ain't gonna do that we better than that and smarter it's those Haves do that stuff and we just git free stuff from Haves.

We knows that free stuff is so fine, dude.

 

[mhaze]

Can anyone name a specific Alinsky tactic that supposedly is used by lefties more than by righties? Mhaze?

One highly practical way to do that would be to look at the organizations Alinsky started, and those which his followers started. Then look at the Alinsky tactics, which although described among many in the book RFR, were some they actually used in the real world.

By definition, then you see that they were strictly used by left wing radicals, in organizations contrived for purposes as laid out in the book RFR, and attribution of purpose intent and origin of said tactics is quite clear.

 

[Lurker]

Well, let me translate that. If I may.

It's the day of the internet, and I can instantly download ebooks or get them down the street at the bookstore, or buy them for a buck or two off ebay and they arrive in two days. It's so nice that I can get much of Alinsky's work off of the Internet, or get the books he wrote in a couple of days. But I'm really lazy, so I just expect some guy on an internet forum to answer all my questions for me. That works pretty well. But yeah, every now and then one of them doesn't cooperate, even when we insult him and call him a liar and stoopid. Geez, what to do?

It's just not fair.

How would reading RfR help us answer why Republicans hold him in such low esteem? I am not a Republican and although I like to think I can think like one I would rather just go to a Republican and get it straight from them. If I read the book, I run the risk of interpreting things with my more liberal mind and not interpreting as a Republican would.

I know we are not owed anything from you but I try and help people out all the time with information that they lack if I have the information myself. I don't see what the big deal is.

 

[Travis]

How would reading RfR help us answer why Republicans hold him in such low esteem? I am not a Republican and although I like to think I can think like one I would rather just go to a Republican and get it straight from them. If I read the book, I run the risk of interpreting things with my more liberal mind and not interpreting as a Republican would

So far all the quotes from the book posted here make me like the guy.

 

[A Laughing Baby]

If you are interested, here is the copy I used to read the book.

 

[mhaze]

How would reading RfR help us answer why Republicans hold him in such low esteem? I am not a Republican and although I like to think I can think like one I would rather just go to a Republican and get it straight from them. If I read the book, I run the risk of interpreting things with my more liberal mind and not interpreting as a Republican would.

I know we are not owed anything from you but I try and help people out all the time with information that they lack if I have the information myself. I don't see what the big deal is.

Actually I don't think it's that simple a matter. As has been noted, you could ask the question to a Republican and get his vague, general sentiments. I don't think those accurately convey this guy's thinking. Not at all.

I've certainly pointed out some very "unlikeable" things in the Alinsky method, using dramatic examples for effect. And that's what he advocated.

You see, people would not take it seriously if you proposed a giant "100 person Fart-in" at the next JREF meeting strictly for purposes of disrupting the meeting. But Alinsky would say to that .... "so let's do exactly that..."

It's clearly rational to think that JREF people would "not particularly like" the instigator. They'd "hold him in low esteem". There isn't anything complicated about this.

From that you can go a step further and note that for some reasons relating to the nature of the constituencies, radical Democratic left would and have held "FartIns" as described, and Republicans have not and would not. And some the Alinsky stuff at the Occupy-By-Morons movement has embarrassed the left and the media, too.

One thing noted by the right in studying Alinsky is that when the method is understood, it no longer "works". This is typical of propagandic methods.

 

[mhaze]

If you are interested, here is the copy I used to read the book.

Aww...you gave one of the mystery secrets away...

Awww....

Wahh! Wahh!!!!

 

[SezMe]

Actually I don't think it's that simple a matter. As has been noted, you could ask the question to a Republican and get his vague, general sentiments.

Aha, you have finally (barely) touched on the subject of this thread. If Republicans have only a vague, general notion of the guy (and I doubt even that) then why is he such a flashpoint, such a symbol for them?

 

[A'isha]

From that you can go a step further and note that for some reasons relating to the nature of the constituencies, radical Democratic left would and have held "FartIns" as described, and Republicans have not and would not.

Objection! Assumes facts not in evidence.

 

[mhaze]

Aha, you have finally (barely) touched on the subject of this thread. If Republicans have only a vague, general notion of the guy (and I doubt even that) then why is he such a flashpoint, such a symbol for them?

I think it's much likely that you haven't understood what I said, or perhaps that you only have a vague, general notion of what I said. But that doesn't lead to an ability to predict consequences, thus it would be meaningless and useless.

It is on the contrary, certainly possible to know specific elements which lead to successful tactics or which subvert and neutralize attempts at propaganda. Those specific elements then can be said to have predictable results, even if the users do not understand the general theory.

 

[Travis]

Aha, you have finally (barely) touched on the subject of this thread. If Republicans have only a vague, general notion of the guy (and I doubt even that) then why is he such a flashpoint, such a symbol for them?

I'm starting to get the feeling that "Alinsky" is just some sort of shibboleth.

 

[SezMe]

I think it's much likely that you haven't understood what I said, or perhaps that you only have a vague, general notion of what I said.

I too think that is likely but only because what you have said is vague and general.

 

[hgc]

May I commend this video to you all: Buckley interviews Alinsky, 1967.



Too bad it's only 5 mins. I don't know if the rest is on YT.

Buckley's intro on his guest:

Mr. Saul Alinsky, who was born in Chicago in nineteen nine, has become sort of the pet revolutionary of the church people in America. ...

 

[SezMe]

Even in those days, Buckley glances down at Saul's cigarette with undisguised disdain. Beautiful!

 

[AlBell]

Objection! Assumes facts not in evidence.

History provides them. Republicans and Alinsky methods are not compatible; SDS-Weatherman-Black Panther-Chicago pol types are the Alinsky groupies.

ps. I recall 1949-1954 deemed by me pleasureable and as the status quo of my choice to be returned to.

 

[A'isha]

ps. I recall 1949-1954 deemed by me pleasureable and as the status quo of my choice to be returned to.

So, back before the Brown decision, then?

 

[Unabogie]

History provides them. Republicans and Alinsky methods are not compatible

Except for the Tea Party and Dick Armey.

 

[mhaze]

History provides them. Republicans and Alinsky methods are not compatible; SDS-Weatherman-Black Panther-Chicago pol types are the Alinsky groupies.

ps. I recall 1949-1954 deemed by me pleasureable and as the status quo of my choice to be returned to.

And the liberal left OWNS the FartIns.

Along with many other objectional tactics in the style laid out by Alinsky.

I'm still laughing over the lame effort here to marginalize Alinsky's tactics into "Alinsky Lite" so that they can claim Repubs use them too.

 

[johnny karate]

I recall 1949-1954 deemed by me pleasureable and as the status quo of my choice to be returned to.

How sad for you.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'll be getting off your lawn.

 

[mhaze]

History provides them. Republicans and Alinsky methods are not compatible; SDS-Weatherman-Black Panther-Chicago pol types are the Alinsky groupies.

ps. I recall 1949-1954 deemed by me pleasureable and as the status quo of my choice to be returned to.

I suspect most of the naive and gullible but devoted faithful of the latest rehash of a socialist slogan here have never met, let alone numerous times, a Weatherman, a Black Panther, or any of the SDS group, and do not know much more about them than they know about Alinsky.