Moderated What's wrong with porn?

[JFrankA]

Really? People don't choose to do porn when they have a choice to do something else?

I'll give you an anecdote: I knew a woman several years ago who was working in porn. No one incredibly famous or anything. She was working in porn despite having a PhD in physics. She actively chose to do porn. She enjoyed the job, and liked the fact that it paid better than any job she could have gotten with her PhD.

I'll give you another anecdote: That same several years ago, I posed for pornographic pictures. It was amateur porn, not professional porn, and the pictures were distributed (published, if you will) through various internet means. I did it because I wanted to. And I did it for free, because I enjoyed doing it. There was no "chosing" between doing porn and doing something else. I did the porn in addition to the other things that were going on in my life. And it hasn't adversely affected my life, even years later. I have no qualms about admitting that I've participated in making porn to anyone, even my own child.

I know more than a few people with similar stories.

SkeptiChick, more power to and you'd still be welcome to come have Christmas dinner with my family.*

There.

*Provided you promised to do your best to talk my my wife into a threesome.

....aww...he beat me. I was going to offer too.......

 

[RandFan]

Really? People don't choose to do porn when they have a choice to do something else?

I'll give you an anecdote: I knew a woman several years ago who was working in porn. No one incredibly famous or anything. She was working in porn despite having a PhD in physics. She actively chose to do porn. She enjoyed the job, and liked the fact that it paid better than any job she could have gotten with her PhD.

I'll give you another anecdote: That same several years ago, I posed for pornographic pictures. It was amateur porn, not professional porn, and the pictures were distributed (published, if you will) through various internet means. I did it because I wanted to. And I did it for free, because I enjoyed doing it. There was no "chosing" between doing porn and doing something else. I did the porn in addition to the other things that were going on in my life. And it hasn't adversely affected my life, even years later. I have no qualms about admitting that I've participated in making porn to anyone, even my own child.

I know more than a few people with similar stories.

I'd like to join the growing chorus. BTW, when I met my wife she took a dim view of porn. She's fine with it now. I never pushed her. Occasionaly I'd ask if she would like to see a movie and I'd joke from time to time. She warmed to the idea. Which is cool.

 

[MontagK505]

<snip>

I'm not a prude. When porn first became legal I was the first to go to the cinema and watch it. I'm getting old though and looking at kids young enough to be my grandchildren engaged in the industry is alarming to me. We didn't have aids in my day and drugs weren't as strong as they are now. People seemed more decent. I feel that the actors particularly the barely legal girls are being exploited.

Tracy Lords lied about her age at 16 using fake ID. Do you seriously think she was being "exploited".

I knew a model that was doing nude modeling two days after her 18th birthday and she planned this event months in advance (at the time she was doing fashion / swimware). Not the picture of the innocent being exploited.

I personally have met models that were just as eager (just not legal)

 

[BenBurch]

Gee, you know Nina Hartley could have been working as a nurse all these years and years... Could have been the person taking your BP next time you were in the hospital for labs. She absolutely could have been doing something other than porn as a result of having that degree.

So, its a stupid argument to say porn actresses can do nothing else, and is really demeaning to them. Again, it is degrading to think that they are capable of nothing else, and that you are rescuing them with your moral crusade.

But you know it is true that for some porn is the best opportunity that presents itself to support themselves. Would you rather that were closed to them and they went to work changing linen at the Holiday Inn and hoping that somebody would finally leave them a tip or two so they could afford enough food?

 

[tesscaline]

So, its a stupid argument to say porn actresses can do nothing else, and is really demeaning to them. Again, it is degrading to think that they are capable of nothing else, and that you are rescuing them with your moral crusade.

Indeed. That sort of attitude is extremely demeaning and degrading.

Not to mention that I find it interesting that these arguments are only ever made about the female porn stars, and nothing whatsoever is mentioned about the male ones. Screams to me of that "women are delicate little flowers that cannot possibly defend themselves or know what the right course of action is so men must protect them" kind of sexism.

It is downright insulting to even insinuate that just because I am a woman I'm not smart enough, or strong enough, or generally capable enough, to avoid being abused or exploited.

 

[MontagK505]

Indeed. That sort of attitude is extremely demeaning and degrading.

Not to mention that I find it interesting that these arguments are only ever made about the female porn stars, and nothing whatsoever is mentioned about the male ones. Screams to me of that "women are delicate little flowers that cannot possibly defend themselves or know what the right course of action is so men must protect them" kind of sexism.

It is downright insulting to even insinuate that just because I am a woman I'm not smart enough, or strong enough, or generally capable enough, to avoid being abused or exploited.

The irony is that the men generaly receive about half the pay as the women and while they may enjoy it, timing requires that you can't enjoy it too much or too soon. (the money shot)

 

[tesscaline]

The irony is that the men generaly receive about half the pay as the women and while they may enjoy it, timing requires that you can't enjoy it too much or too soon. (the money shot)

Indeed.

 

[Humanzee]

Ok, well then you certainly know more than I do about it and I stand corrected. I certainly didnt intend to demean anyone.
My concern was with people that have few options being taken advantage of. I may have a poor opinion of how the porn industry works.

 

[MontagK505]

Ok, well then you certainly know more than I do about it and I stand corrected. I certainly didnt intend to demean anyone.
My concern was with people that have few options being taken advantage of. I may have a poor opinion of how the porn industry works.

The porn industry has bad apples like mainstream entertainment. Because of the social stigma it may foster some abuses. But that is caused by sociological effects not the result.

I've heard that inside the industry the lower ranking men are frequently regarded as nothing more than props or walking dildos.

 

[arthwollipot]

Ok, well then you certainly know more than I do about it and I stand corrected. I certainly didnt intend to demean anyone.
My concern was with people that have few options being taken advantage of. I may have a poor opinion of how the porn industry works.

My experience is that most people have a poor opinion of how the porn industry works.

 

[Humanzee]

I think so too. My personal opinion is that it shouldn't matter. That there isn't anything wrong with it ideally. But I don't think that is how (our) society see it and that drives it underground to become a bad thing for people to be involved in. We live in a more puritan society then I thnk we know.

 

[Southwind17]

People fantasize about all sorts of things, some of it very violent.

By your logic I really want to go to my neighbour's house when he's playing loud techno music, ring the doorbell and when he opens the door, bash his skull in with a golf club, whilst yelling 'STOP PLAYING THAT TRIPE YOU BASTARD, AND STOP BREATHING MY AIR'. *Thud*Thud*Thud*.

By the same logic, do you think that women who have rape fantasies would also want to act them out? For real?

Careful now. My exact words were "deep-routed desire ... regardless of how faint". I don't think that necessarily translates to wanting either to act them out or actually be raped. I might (I don't!) fantasize about being a rock star when I'm mentally playing along to GNR in the car. Would I seek to become a rock star could I re-live my life? Maybe. Would I get up on stage tomorrow in front of 20,000 people (assuming my guitar skills were sufficient!)? I don't think so!

 

[Southwind17]

This same argument could be applied to any questonable act in any movie.

Example: The bank robbery scene in the movie "Heat". This did inspire some thugs to attempt the same thing in real-life.

Why is porn treated differently?

I was pretty sure somebody would pick up on this, which is why I chose my words carefully. I don't think any movies - action, porn or otherwise - specifically set out to "serve to legitimize" what they portray. Porn movies, however, appeal to and target a raw human instinct, and I think that the impact they might have could, as a result, be different.

BTW - that's one of the best movie scenes I've ever seen - good choice. That and the opening scene to "Saving Private Ryan" (not the memorial park scene - the beach landing).

 

[Southwind17]

I mean I would not enjoy being hung from hooks in my back, but people do it with out any financial coercion, so they must be getting some form of enjoyment from it.

"Satisfaction", I'd say, not "enjoyment", probably after the fact too, on reflection. Not disimilar to a first bungee jump!

 

[Southwind17]

Incidentally, I think you'll find that should be deep-rooted, on the off-chance you're interested!

You're right - my verbal trip - thanks for pointing that out.

 

[Southwind17]

I don't know. One of the arousing things about porn, to me, is the impression that the woman is enjoying herself. Clearly, if her state of mind is important, then she's not objectified, no ?

It depends on what you'd like her state of mind to be!

 

[Southwind17]

If I ever get into psychology I'll do my thesis on the following question:

"Why is it that when someone makes a joke and another person doesn't get it, they automatically assume that that person's sense of humour is broken ?"

Sorry - my mistake - temporal cortex by-pass! Unfortunately, I suspect your prospects of "getting into psychology" (other than as a subject case) are now severely foundered! But then again, if you can read and comprehend this ... !

 

[Southwind17]

Good point. Irrelevant, but good point.

Not irrelevant if one has a desire to learn. Thanks for clearing that up, though.

Indeed. So you wouldn't ask for a more detailed explanation. Why do you ask Ron to provide you with one for urine ?

Because he made the same logical blunder as you've made (and still not spotted, seemingy!). I repeat - cause and effect Belz. The cause of your dislike for asparagus is your disgust in it, which must also have a cause (you can't rightly claim to dislike or be disgusted by something that you know nothing about!). I assume it's the taste that disgusts you, and hence that you dislike (it could be the texture too, or even the appearance, or the inhumane necessities that go into growing it and putting it on your table(!)), but you haven't said.

Similarly, Ron has a dislike for drinking urine, which emanates from its disgusting taste (in his opinion). We are, however, still left wondering why Ron dislikes and is disgusted at the idea of somebody drinking semen, because his logical blunder leads him to think that he's already revealed the reason (he dislikes the idea), but, unfortunately, he hasn't. Whatever is the cause of his dislike is, at least in part, also the cause of his disgust. Perhaps he'll let us know one day.

 

[Southwind17]

In answer to the ability to divorce fantasy from reality, I believe that most people can. Those who can't, again my opinion, are the ones who have some kind of mental problem.

By "can [divorce fantasy from reality]" I think you mean that most people "can resist seeking to realise their fantasies", right? In which case I agree with you. That's very different, however, from what I'm suggesting, which is that what one consciously fantasises about is what one really has a desire to do, at least to a degree. Do you see the difference?

Let me put it this way: is there a difference between playing poker at home for a few dollars with your buddies and playing poker at an illegal casino at $10000 an ante?

Sorry JFrankA, I can't see how this example relates to the question of divorcing fantasy from reality, but hopefully my words above have clarified matters anyhow.

 

[Southwind17]

That's the principal reason why they're former porn stars.

Except for those who might now be flipping burgers at Maccas (assuming some "former" porn stars are prepared to take the risk!).
Top tip: If you want to be a smart arse it's best to make sure you have ... well, a "smart" arse!